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  1. #21
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    Apr. 2, 2011
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    Westchester, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by xemilyx805 View Post
    I'm not putting down the college riding team, please do not jump down my throat for it.

    I've repeated myself a lot, you seem to see only the things you can argue with me about. I'm not asking for a situation like that I'm asking to work for a situation like that. I have done 3'. I have not done a full 3' hunter or equitation course because I have never gotten the opportunity to do so. I do not have the horse for that.

    All I am saying is that I want the opportunity to work for lessons and ride time on horses like that. I am an extremely fast learner and talented rider. I trained four horses before I turned 15 and I turned a western pleasure horse into a hunter. Over the summer a few years ago, I went from 2' to 2'9" courses. I've done the three foot, I just need to be able to practice it, and I have no opportunity to practice it. I'm asking for the opportunity to work for lessons and eventually start riding other peoples horses.

    Where I am right now? I would be better off on a college team. Two years from now? Who knows? Maybe if I am in a training program and showing, then I would be better off advancing through that than going to college and riding less. But did I ever say I didn't plan on going to college? No.



    Let's put it this way. If I won the powerball right now, and marched up to a nice trainer and said here's thousands of dollars, can you put me in a training program, he would say yes and by the time I was about ready to go to college I could be showing the 3' and beyond. How is it any different if I'm working for the training program or paying for the training program?
    I think what people are trying to say is think about what you would want to do if couldn't work in the industry. You mention majoring in English (I'm actually an English major). What would you want to do with that degree?

    Again, I sympathize but you come off as slightly arrogant and over confident. Those are not traits that are going to get you anywhere.

    What about taking a gap year? If your parents will support it, why not apply for a working student position anywhere you can and spend a year before college doing that. If you use the search function and look for working student you can probably turn up some places to apply.

    But the idea is to have a back-up plan if riding doesn't work out. You could loose interest or change your mind (I know, I know, "that will never happen!") or you could get hurt. Deciding to have a job outside of the industry doesn't mean you quit riding, it just means you finance it from a different source.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Oct. 6, 2010
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    90

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    It's hard to sit and wait around because just like you said, I do really have a sense of urgency. And I know that it seems very far fetched to come from my background and make a career riding, but I'm not entirely looking for that. I'm really looking to get myself into a position where I can be a trainer. I'm not even looking to make money I'm looking to break even. That's my goal in life. I want to ride and teach and train all day. It doesn't seem like it's that unattainable.

    And I say grooming won't help my riding career because if I go to groom with someone for the winter there's no guarantee that I'll even sit on a horse. So that would be an entire winter that I didn't ride and when I come back in the spring I'll have to spend time getting caught back up. See what I mean? I'm sure it might help with connections, but my parents wouldn't be willing to send me away all winter just for the potential that there might be a slim chance I'll make a connection with someone, or sit on someones horse.

    And yes it is a bit unfair to judge someone by height, but I understand her point. In the hunter/jumper world it is all based on height. That's just how everyone thinks in that world. If I think I'm going to make anything out of myself in that particular area of riding I need to have the height.
    Every horse is ART
    And every rider is an ARTIST



  3. #23
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    Oct. 6, 2010
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    The working student position is what this whole thing was originally about! My whole goal for the end of high school is to find an opportunity like that.

    I was actually thinking about creative writing. I love reading and writing. I really don't know what exactly I want to study in, everything I seem to like doesn't make any money. (reading, writing, philosophy, riding)

    And I really don't mean to be pompous or arrogant! It's just that I feel the need to defend myself a tad because all I've gotten was that you can't make it there just because you can "work hard". I have the talent to get there just not the right situations. I'm not at all trying to say that I deserve any type of chances I'm saying I deserve to get the chance to work for a chance. That's the farthest down I can possibly go. I'm not asking for someone to give me their horse to ride I'm asking to work for the chance that maybe they'll let me ride their horse. I really don't how that keeps being taken so differently.
    Every horse is ART
    And every rider is an ARTIST



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2011
    Location
    Northern Virginia
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    207

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    If you really, truly want a career in horses, be prepared to be treated like a piece of complete and utter doo-doo for a number of years. there is a very, very old song by Ringo Starr called "It Don't Come Easy." Child, in horses, it dont. But I do have to say, when it do - it be most rewarding. Good luck to ya!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Feb. 21, 2011
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    I am 16 years old myself and understand what you are going through. I was a working student (the worst but yet best 2 years of my life). While I didn't get to go to every A show and ride the best horses, I did get trained by a very well known trainer in my area and go to A shows (which were fully paid for me), and same with local shows. By being a working student I met a lot of people, which created new opportunities for me. I now ride at a different barn, ride horses for the owner and do sale videos for her and even I am even going to be able to show some of her horses at shows to get mileage on them. I also ride my new trainers horses, and she has also made opportunities for me to ride other peoples horses.

    What I am trying to say is not everything is going to be handed to you. My working student job was hell. I did online school and worked out there from 8am-6pm everyday cleaning stalls, feeding, medicating, and even teaching beginner lessons, while my mom and I lived with my trainer. I never had a break, and worked hard. A lot of kids see the glamorous part of working with horses, but they don't think about when you start off you won't have several people to do everything for you. You have to work 365 days a year, including holidays, no matter how sick you are, to take care of the horses. You won't be able to go out and go on vacation because you need a break. There are no breaks. That was me. I worked on Christmas and Thanksgiving with the help of my mom and one other person. I never got to go to the mall or take a day off because I wanted too.

    All that really helped me out with what I want to do with my future. I now have great references, know a lot of people in the horse world, know the aspects of running a business, and what it takes. I decided that I am going to community college for 2 years, while teaching lessons out at my barn I am now or a different one. I am going to see if that is what I really want to do and if so I am going to finish my education at community college, and if not transfer somewhere else and go to grad school.

    I don't care who you are, you need a college education. Just think if your career in the horse world fails, what are you going to do? You cannot make a living teaching 30 lessons a week, especially without a lot of show experience.

    So what I am trying to say is, go take a grooming job, go be a working student, and don't pass up opportunities no matter how small. The experience is great, the references are great, and it can help jump start your career. DO NOT EXPECT THINGS TO BE HANDED TO YOU. It won't happen. You have to work hard for everything in life.
    Last edited by bjd2013; Jan. 17, 2012 at 01:02 AM. Reason: awful grammar. its late.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Feb. 21, 2011
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    282

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    Quote Originally Posted by CruisingforGold View Post
    If you really, truly want a career in horses, be prepared to be treated like a piece of complete and utter doo-doo for a number of years. there is a very, very old song by Ringo Starr called "It Don't Come Easy." Child, in horses, it dont. But I do have to say, when it do - it be most rewarding. Good luck to ya!
    Thats what I am saying. I went through so much emotional abuse and stress, but I came out of that situation knowing more than the trainers own daughter. It was a great opportunity.



  7. #27
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    Oct. 6, 2010
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    90

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    I'm looking for exactly that working student position! I can't find one. That's what this entire thing is about, I want to go through hell. I want to not take breaks. I want to work that hard. I want exactly that working student position! That's what I need. To start at the bottom and work my way up. Where was it that you had that position and how did you get it?

    And I was never not planning on going to college. I always have, always will. My only point was that a college equestrian team isn't the best way to establish yourself in the equestrian world. I never said I didn't want to ride on one or that I wasn't going to go to college.
    Every horse is ART
    And every rider is an ARTIST



  8. #28
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    Feb. 21, 2011
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    282

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    Quote Originally Posted by xemilyx805 View Post
    I'm looking for exactly that working student position! I can't find one. That's what this entire thing is about, I want to go through hell. I want to not take breaks. I want to work that hard. I want exactly that working student position! That's what I need. To start at the bottom and work my way up. Where was it that you had that position and how did you get it?

    And I was never not planning on going to college. I always have, always will. My only point was that a college equestrian team isn't the best way to establish yourself in the equestrian world. I never said I didn't want to ride on one or that I wasn't going to go to college.
    Where are you located? I know they are looking for working students, and have housing available I think.

    Contact different barns in your area, and tell them you are interested in working student opportunities. Mine was a little special though, since I lived with my trainer for the 2 years.
    Last edited by bjd2013; Jan. 17, 2012 at 01:05 AM. Reason: my grammar is awful.



  9. #29
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    Oct. 6, 2010
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    oh and thank you I know, I have and will for a long time be treated terribly. I know it won't come easy I just need to know it will come. I don't need easy I need possible. But no worries, I don't ever let anything like this get to me, I groomed for some rich spoiled mortifieds. If ever it was hard to hold my tongue it was when the mortifieds were putting me down when they are on the easiest push button horses and still managed to mess up the 2'3" course they were doing and blame it on the horses.
    Every horse is ART
    And every rider is an ARTIST



  10. #30
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    Oct. 6, 2010
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    I've tried all the barns in my area and I haven't really gotten anything. I'm still trying though. I'm actually located in Rhode Island. Although, if I can get housing I'm pretty much willing to go anywhere.
    Every horse is ART
    And every rider is an ARTIST



  11. #31
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    Feb. 21, 2011
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    282

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    Quote Originally Posted by xemilyx805 View Post
    oh and thank you I know, I have and will for a long time be treated terribly. I know it won't come easy I just need to know it will come. I don't need easy I need possible. But no worries, I don't ever let anything like this get to me, I groomed for some rich spoiled mortifieds. If ever it was hard to hold my tongue it was when the mortifieds were putting me down when they are on the easiest push button horses and still managed to mess up the 2'3" course they were doing and blame it on the horses.
    That doesn't look good. Just saying. But anyway I will PM you their information.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Oct. 6, 2010
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    I'm sorry. I really don't mean to say things like that they just slip out. I've kinda been yelled at all night. And the adults were by far the worst treatment I've ever gotten. But I am sorry I said it.
    Every horse is ART
    And every rider is an ARTIST



  13. #33
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    Feb. 21, 2011
    Posts
    282

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    It's fine, but on here, you have to act like an adult or be ready for the smackdown I always try to act as professional as possible, because you never know who is reading this stuff.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    5,977

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    I'm confused, and I truly mean that - I'm not trying to be rude.

    You say you've owned horses for 12 of the 14 years you've been riding, but not a single one can do more than 2'9"?

    Now, bear in mind that I reside primarily in eventing and dressage land, but... when you don't have the big money to go buy a five or six figure horse and ride with the four-figure-a-month trainer, what do you do to make a 'name' for yourself? You train up your own horses, compete them to the best of your financial ability, and you create a reputation by winning.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  15. #35
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    Nov. 16, 2011
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    176

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    Ok, im going to be blunt. This sport while yes, is hard work and while it sounds like you have a good work ethic you can't get very far if you don't have one thing. Hint: its green and rectangular and many people in this sport have lots of it!

    One thing we ALL know on this board is that this is an EXPENSIVE sport. It costs a lot of MONEY. People put time and money into their horses and honestly a trainer is not just going to let anyone catch ride- they want someone who is proven who they know can ride the horse and ride it correctly especially a BNT. I know a handful of riders in my area that the BNT's around here (we have lots of them!) would let ride their $100k+ horses or even SIT on their training ponies! A handful..and those riders have some DAMN crazy show records and are SPONSORED by Voltaire, Devocoux..etc THOSE are the riders who get the oppurtunities because they have put money into this sport to get something out of it.


    Basically- you need to take some lessons with a BNT in your area and make connections and get yourself KNOWN. Groom, braid, hang out at shows, be friends with riders of the bigger barns, find an in and follow it. In your position you are above and below NOTHING. But you cannot expect anything to be handed to you- you're 16 and you have plenty of life ahead of you to do this day in and day out for the next 75 years.


    But honestly- this sport takes money and its hard to get anywhere without it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Oct. 20, 2005
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    2,813

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    This'll probably go right over your head and I understand that, I was 16 not so long ago. Someone told me the following and I didn't heed it.

    Go to school. Study business....accounting, marketing, the whole shebang. Get a job that will allow you to finance your dreams. Then you can have YOUR OWN facility and do what you want with YOUR OWN horses on YOUR OWN terms. You won't have to rely on 'begging' to make your way.
    It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Feb. 21, 2011
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    282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slewdledo View Post
    Go to school. Study business....accounting, marketing, the whole shebang. Get a job that will allow you to finance your dreams. Then you can have YOUR OWN facility and do what you want with YOUR OWN horses on YOUR OWN terms. You won't have to rely on 'begging' to make your way.
    This is my exact plan


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Mar. 13, 2006
    Posts
    638

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    It sounds as if you have a grudge against "rich, spoiled (mortifieds?) riders". just remember, these "rich, spoiled ladies" will be the ones who own and pay for the horses you will be working with/showing if you are a working student at a large A barn. They are the ones who will foot your bill to show their horse. Instead of snarking at them, I would totally be making friends with them. I have had many generous owners allow me to show and ride their horses over the years. I am thankful for them because they have given me opportunities to become a better rider.

    Just saying....


    4 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Aug. 2, 2010
    Posts
    385

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    xEmilyx805 -

    I know my tone was harsh, but I really do understand what you are going through and what you are asking. My daughter has been living this scenario for seven years (age 15 - 22). I absolutely believe that you want to work hard for every opportunity and that your work should be as good as someone else's money. But to a trainer, money trumps and riding opportunities go to those who pay. Think about what a lesson with a BNT costs + daily riding on quality horses. Compare that to what the BNT can pay a barn worker per hour and you get an idea of the exchange rate for bartering work for lessons. Yes, there are generous trainers who want to give enthusiastic, hard-working young people a chance, but not at a significant cost to their bottom line.

    I'm not saying that there aren't good working student opportunities out there that provide excellent training in not just riding, but more importantly in barn management. But opportunities for riding at the elite levels, especially when you're not even paying the show fees? It's not happening.

    My daughter was given a free lease on a 15 year-old OTTH that had done the children's jumpers several years before. We boarded the horse at an A barn and DD took two lessons a week. Over the course of several months, the trainer saw big improvement not just in my DD, but in the horse. He wanted DD to show, but I told him that we couldn't afford board on the horse plus showing. He offered DD a WS position that provided a stall, so I was able to afford some rated shows. DD did very well, so trainer provided a better horse that she could do junior hunters. DD did well and learned a ton. She also worked at least 40 hours per week while going to high school (5 hours in PM + 20 hours on the weekend). In the summer, she worked 60 hours. She had a parent who was willing to get her to the barn at 3 AM for shows and to pick her up at midnight when they got back. DD was left at the barn alone a lot, so I would stay in my car just in case something happened. She missed all family vacations and holidays. She even took a semester off her junior year in high school to be a groom in Ocala during the winter circuit. I know you have the passion to do all of this, but make sure your parents are willing to support this level of dedication in high school. And for DD, those were the easy years.

    When DD turned adult, riding opportunities fizzled out because she wanted to keep ammy status. She decided to go to college and ride on the team and do equine studies/business degree. After 3 semesters and $15,000 in student loans, she decided that the quality of horses and level of training were not as good as what she was getting in the free part-time position she had with another trainer at home. She left school and for two years, she's worked 70+ hour weeks as a groom, which provided housing and a stipend that paid for lessons, peanut butter and ramen. I bought a horse for her to do jumpers and I paid show fees. I considered this expense as her college education. Whenever possible, DD would school horses at other barns for free (so she wouldn't violate her ammy status). In over two years, she only had one weekend off.

    DD has loved the education, but it has been extremely hard mentally and physically. She feels it's worth it, so I support her. But I've watched her work hurt and sick and exhausted. It's hard to watch, especially when I know her future is uncertain and she's a fall away from a career change.

    The fact is, DD's experience has been much better than many of the working students we've gotten to know. Her situation and the level of her training has been quite good. She's just given up her ammy status and taken her first paying job as a groom and rider and will get to train with top people. She was recommended for this job by several trainers who have watched her "pay her dues." But actually showing the exceptional horses that get you to the top? That's a dream that feels very, very far away.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Nov. 16, 2011
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    176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle Mom View Post
    xEmilyx805 -

    I know my tone was harsh, but I really do understand what you are going through and what you are asking. My daughter has been living this scenario for seven years (age 15 - 22). I absolutely believe that you want to work hard for every opportunity and that your work should be as good as someone else's money. But to a trainer, money trumps and riding opportunities go to those who pay. Think about what a lesson with a BNT costs + daily riding on quality horses. Compare that to what the BNT can pay a barn worker per hour and you get an idea of the exchange rate for bartering work for lessons. Yes, there are generous trainers who want to give enthusiastic, hard-working young people a chance, but not at a significant cost to their bottom line.

    I'm not saying that there aren't good working student opportunities out there that provide excellent training in not just riding, but more importantly in barn management. But opportunities for riding at the elite levels, especially when you're not even paying the show fees? It's not happening.

    My daughter was given a free lease on a 15 year-old OTTH that had done the children's jumpers several years before. We boarded the horse at an A barn and DD took two lessons a week. Over the course of several months, the trainer saw big improvement not just in my DD, but in the horse. He wanted DD to show, but I told him that we couldn't afford board on the horse plus showing. He offered DD a WS position that provided a stall, so I was able to afford some rated shows. DD did very well, so trainer provided a better horse that she could do junior hunters. DD did well and learned a ton. She also worked at least 40 hours per week while going to high school (5 hours in PM + 20 hours on the weekend). In the summer, she worked 60 hours. She had a parent who was willing to get her to the barn at 3 AM for shows and to pick her up at midnight when they got back. DD was left at the barn alone a lot, so I would stay in my car just in case something happened. She missed all family vacations and holidays. She even took a semester off her junior year in high school to be a groom in Ocala during the winter circuit. I know you have the passion to do all of this, but make sure your parents are willing to support this level of dedication in high school. And for DD, those were the easy years.

    When DD turned adult, riding opportunities fizzled out because she wanted to keep ammy status. She decided to go to college and ride on the team and do equine studies/business degree. After 3 semesters and $15,000 in student loans, she decided that the quality of horses and level of training were not as good as what she was getting in the free part-time position she had with another trainer at home. She left school and for two years, she's worked 70+ hour weeks as a groom, which provided housing and a stipend that paid for lessons, peanut butter and ramen. I bought a horse for her to do jumpers and I paid show fees. I considered this expense as her college education. Whenever possible, DD would school horses at other barns for free (so she wouldn't violate her ammy status). In over two years, she only had one weekend off.

    DD has loved the education, but it has been extremely hard mentally and physically. She feels it's worth it, so I support her. But I've watched her work hurt and sick and exhausted. It's hard to watch, especially when I know her future is uncertain and she's a fall away from a career change.

    The fact is, DD's experience has been much better than many of the working students we've gotten to know. Her situation and the level of her training has been quite good. She's just given up her ammy status and taken her first paying job as a groom and rider and will get to train with top people. She was recommended for this job by several trainers who have watched her "pay her dues." But actually showing the exceptional horses that get you to the top? That's a dream that feels very, very far away.
    Wow, what a dedicated mom and hardworking kid! Now that is a story to tell! Wow.


    2 members found this post helpful.

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