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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2009
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    Default Sound, Stumble, Lame, Sound

    This has happened several times now. We are trotting happily and with energy, and horse seems to take a mistep and stumbles in front. He rights himself and keeps going, only now head-bobbing lame. I cold-hose and rest for a couple of days, and he is perfectly fine again--sound as a dollar. It just happened again a couple of days ago, this time on the longe. He tripped, and then it was the same thing, noticably lame in front. I'll try a ride tomorrow night, and if it goes as expected he'll be just fine.

    Does this sound familiar to anyone? Surely a stumble doesn't have this extreme effect unless there is an underlying weakness. He is shod in front due to a tendency to thin soles (no prob with shoes). Also has a very slight club foot on the right front, but this has never caused an issue--unless it is a weakness that causes undue strain from a small trip...

    Any ideas appreciated!
    Mon Ogon (Mojo), black/bay 16 H TB Gelding



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2010
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    545

    Default

    A good picture or two of his front hoofs would help you get some opinions as to why he may be stumbling.
    Other wise it could be anything from his nose to his tail and everything in-between.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
    Location
    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
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    9,621

    Default

    This is what my horse did shortly before being diagnosed with neck arthritis. There were stumbles over a period of months without subsequent lameness that we attributed to clutziness. Then one where he came up fairly lame that ultimately led to the scintigraphy that diagnosed the neck problem. But, as the above posted noted, it could be anything. YMMV.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2002
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
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    124

    Default

    I'm with Peggy, sounds like a classic presentation of a neck issue. I would send the horse for a bone scan.



  5. #5
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    Nov. 12, 2001
    Location
    Lemont, Il, USA
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    Default

    I'm not familiar with symptoms of a neck issue, so cant comment on that possibility, but a HUGE cause of tripping is being shod with overly long toes.

    And also it's a symptom of navicular syndrome.



  6. #6
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    Sending him in for a bone scan is pretty costly, especially if OP does not have her own rig to transport him and/or if it's quite a distance.

    Kind of doubt this is immediately life threatening so I might start with a good farrier-both my horses with navicular would occasionally do as described. Certainly a bad shoing job or too much toe can do it as well.

    BUT the farrier needs to work with your vet and a lamness evaluation-with blocks and pictures- really needs to be done to isolate exactly where the problem is.

    I read so often on here of all sorts of money spent treating what is not wrong based on second hand assumptions of what might be wrong by those never laying eyes on the horse. How much cheaper it would have been to spend more and do it right the first time...
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
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    Default

    The symptoms are most often (99.99% of the time) hoof balance issues. And of course a stumble can make them lame for a day or so. It HURTS to fold your foot over with a thouand pounds coming down on it.
    He could also actually injure himself by stumbling like tear the extensor tendon attachment, or a collateral ligament, or develop ringbone. So you must get to the bottom of this and correct it.
    Pictures of the hooves will tell a LOT. They needd to be taken taken straight from the sides with camera level ON the ground, and from soles with camera pointing exactly perpendicular to the sole.

    Hoof imbalance is SO much a common source of tripping that even before seeing them I can GUARANTEE that on the club foot when you draw a line across the sole 1" back from the tip of the frog, there will be noticeably more "footprint" in front of that line than behind,to the heels of the foot . A well balanced foot without distortions will have equal dfistances front and back, or slightly less in front. Heck, I am so sure that the ratios are off I will send the OP a gift card if I am wrong.
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  8. #8
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    Feb. 21, 2009
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    I'm with Peggy, sounds like a classic presentation of a neck issue. I would send the horse for a bone scan.
    Its actually a classic presentation of improper shoeing.
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  9. #9
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    Dec. 15, 2005
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    Default

    Could the stumbling be neurological? I would ask the vet to perform a brief neuro exam as well as a lameness exam.



  10. #10
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patty Stiller View Post
    The symptoms are most often (99.99% of the time) hoof balance issues.
    You are so wrong about this.



  11. #11
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    Feb. 21, 2009
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    Default

    [QUOTE]Originally Posted by Patty Stiller
    The symptoms are most often (99.99% of the time) hoof balance issues.

    You are so wrong about this.[/QUOTE]Really?? And how many thousands of shoeings have you done? Or how many horses have you shod and stopped from stumbling in one shoeing? I do this for a living. for thirty years now. I am not wrong.
    Last edited by Patty Stiller; Jan. 16, 2012 at 08:00 PM.
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
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    1,209

    Default

    [QUOTE=Patty Stiller;6084740]
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller
    The symptoms are most often (99.99% of the time) hoof balance issues.

    You are so wrong about this.[/QUOTE]Really>and hie many thousands of shoeings have you done? Or how many horses have you shod and stopped from stumbling in one shoeing? I do this for a living. for thirty years now. I am not wrong.
    This. Always start with the foot. Nine times out of ten that is where the problem is or is what is causing the problem.

    Patty I wish you lived in Virginia!



  13. #13
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    Feb. 21, 2009
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    Default

    Thank you Herbie.
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  14. #14
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    Feb. 18, 2006
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    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    You are so wrong about this.
    Really? How so? I already know Patty's CV/bona fides(and by any standard, they are impeccable), but am unaware of yours. Perhaps if you were to provide them, there would be a basis for accepting your pronouncement. Until then, I hope you can understand why I accept and acknowledge as accurate, Patty's word and not yours.



  15. #15
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    Default

    [quote=Patty Stiller;6084740]
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller
    The symptoms are most often (99.99% of the time) hoof balance issues.

    You are so wrong about this.[/QUOTE]Really?? And how many thousands of shoeings have you done? Or how many horses have you shod and stopped from stumbling in one shoeing? I do this for a living. for thirty years now. I am not wrong.
    I have seen an awful lot of farriers/vets desperately staring at the ground trying to fix stumbling by concentrating on feet when the real problem was the neck/back/neurological. Sure, some is caused by feet, but 99.9%? Not even close. I have seen way more stumbling caused by neurological problems and back and/or back end problems than caused by feet.



  16. #16
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Burten View Post
    Really? How so? I already know Patty's CV/bona fides(and by any standard, they are impeccable), but am unaware of yours. Perhaps if you were to provide them, there would be a basis for accepting your pronouncement. Until then, I hope you can understand why I accept and acknowledge as accurate, Patty's word and not yours.
    Patty is totally biased towards thinking everything is feet. Sure, some is feet, but trying to claim 99.9% is caused by feet is ridiculous. Even the local vet who she recommends has been totally wrong about several horses I knew personally.

    I have a problem when someone tries to discount a legitimate possible problem. It is wrong and IMO is dangerous.



  17. #17
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    Jun. 4, 2006
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    Default

    I would check his coffin joints.



  18. #18
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    Feb. 21, 2009
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    Default

    Patty is totally biased towards thinking everything is feet.
    Not true.Even my own little mare who had serious issue when I got her, I went straight to her back where the problems were, not her feet.
    Sure, some is feet, but trying to claim 99.9% is caused by feet is ridiculous
    .It is not ridiculous. It is true. Nearly EVERY stumbling horse *except two* in all my career (since I learned what I now know about hooves) has the exact same issues with hoof balance and was fixed in one shoeing. And those two were saddle fit in one, and EPM in the other. The rest were proably 75 read over te years, so OK that is not 99.99% but point is the same. Rarely is it NOT the feet.
    Even the local vet who she recommends has been totally wrong about several horses I knew personally.
    wow so you have to go off on some other track here. that's low. I won't even go there, ms. anonymous. .
    I have a problem when someone tries to discount a legitimate possible problem. It is wrong and IMO is dangerous.
    1) I did not discount. Please read for context. I said that stumbling is actually a classic symptom of hoof imbalance /poor shoeing . That does not mean that neuro is not ALSO........ get it?
    2)It is not dangerous to go looking for the easiest to fix (and cheapest) before you go spending thousands looking for the more rare.There is no harm EVER in fixing the feet first. Then of course if the feet are fine then look elsewhere but rule out the most common and easiest problem first.
    So I will re-phrase... maybe you will find it less offensive .
    RARELY do horses have true neck/neurological issues causing stumbling.
    COMMONLY they have foot issues causing stumbling.
    How's that?
    There is an old adage I have heard from several vets that goes something like this:
    When you see hoof prints don't look for zebras first. Look for horses. If you can't find any horses then look for the zebras. IN other words don't spend thousands looking for something that is fairly rare before you rule out the more common and easier to fix. It is just common sense diagnostics.
    Last edited by Patty Stiller; Jan. 16, 2012 at 08:59 PM. Reason: typo in context....spelling
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  19. #19
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    Feb. 21, 2009
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    Default

    PS perfectpony, how many stumbling horses have you personally known ? One? and that one happened to have a a neck issue?
    Or ten? and what were all their diasgnosis and were they all fixed?
    or maybe fifty? and what were all THEIR diagnosis and were they all fixed? Just wondering. I would like some stats from your end , if your going to say I am "totally wrong".
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  20. #20
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    Jan. 3, 2009
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    Default Update

    So...as predicted, Mojo was perfectly sound and on top of his game tonight, including jumping. To answer some questions, I have an excellent farrier who would never leave a too-long toe and is extremely precise and careful (I pay for it ).

    Last summer we went through a lameness evaluation--blocks, xrays, the whole nine yards--which revealed the thin soles subsequently taken care of by the front shoes. At the time, the xrays revealed very minor, minimal, "lollipops" consistent with either soundness (like the vet's horse) or very early navicular involvement. Since Mo has been completely sound and wonderful since the shoes, I stopped worrying until I encountered several instances of the stumble thing described above.

    Someone mentioned that it's not surprising that you might be a little sore after folding your foot back on itself. True. And every horse will stumble occasionally. I'm going to continue to keep an eye on this, but after tonight's excellent school, I'm less worried. Thanks, all!
    Mon Ogon (Mojo), black/bay 16 H TB Gelding



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