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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2011
    Posts
    24

    Default Buying a Horse Under an Alias...

    I'm posting under an alter for obvious reasons. I have been pining over a horse online for years. The seller that has a less than stellar reputation and people tend to keep away. I have contacted the seller under an alias and may be close to coming to a suitable sale agreement to bring said horse home.

    That said, what are the ramifications for buying a horse under an alias? Would they have any means to come after me, if they could find me? They don't know me from Adam, we have never met in person. Basically, I want to bring the horse home and fall off the face of the earth. The phone number I gave her is for an old prepaid cell phone that can go in the trash after all is said and done. I can cancel the e-mail account as contacting the seller is all I've used it for. They don't have any identifying information for me such as the town I live in or where I work - I've been very careful about saying too much. They are in another state, so our paths are highly unlikely to pass in the future. I only do small local dressage shows. They mostly do AQHA halter horses.

    Can my alias "transfer" the horse into my real name? I really want this horse, badly. Most horses wouldn't be worth this trouble, but I can't fault the horse for winding up in a bad spot. What would you do in this situation?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2005
    Location
    Southern California - Hemet
    Posts
    1,688

    Default

    I am not sure as to why you are buying the horse under an alias to begin with. It seems like it will create unnecessary complications when compared to buying the horse under your own name. I am also wondering about the legality of buying the horse under an alias then transferring it to your real name. Perhaps some of our COTH legal eagles can speak to that part of your question. Good luck.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2008
    Location
    Outside Ocala FL - Horse Capital of the World
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    From the registration angle, if you can get the seller to give you a signed transfer form without having your information filled in, they you just fill that in using your real name, and send it to AQHA with the transfer fees. They do not request a copy of the bill of sale, but the seller signature and AQHA membership number must be on it for you to be able to transfer the horse to you.

    Now, with that said, once you have registered the horse in your name, anyone on the planet with an AQHA membership can run an ownership report on any registered horse, and see who has the current ownership, and then find a way to contact you if they so choose, so you might not be able to stay under the radar for very long.

    If the seller insists that the form be completely filled out, you are screwed, as you have to have a valid AQHA membership to do the transfer, so you can't transfer this to your "alias", unless you have an AQHA membership ID to go with the alias. I don't recall what AQHA asks for when submitting the forms for membership, but I seem to recall an SSN being in the mix somehow also, or at least it used to be.
    There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2011
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laskiblue View Post
    I am not sure as to why you are buying the horse under an alias to begin with. It seems like it will create unnecessary complications when compared to buying the horse under your own name. I am also wondering about the legality of buying the horse under an alias then transferring it to your real name. Perhaps some of our COTH legal eagles can speak to that part of your question. Good luck.
    I don't want to be harassed by previous owners. Part of the problem with this seller is that they seem to feel that they still have interests and control over the horses that they sell. I don't want to be bothered with it, hence, the alias.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2010
    Posts
    4,412

    Default

    This sounds like potential trouble. Why do you want the horse so badly? Is the horse in a bad situation, or is there something about it that makes it seem like a great deal? Why are you worried they might "come after you"?

    This sounds like too much trouble to be worth it.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2011
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MunchkinsMom View Post
    From the registration angle, if you can get the seller to give you a signed transfer form without having your information filled in, they you just fill that in using your real name, and send it to AQHA with the transfer fees. They do not request a copy of the bill of sale, but the seller signature and AQHA membership number must be on it for you to be able to transfer the horse to you.

    Now, with that said, once you have registered the horse in your name, anyone on the planet with an AQHA membership can run an ownership report on any registered horse, and see who has the current ownership, and then find a way to contact you if they so choose, so you might not be able to stay under the radar for very long.

    If the seller insists that the form be completely filled out, you are screwed, as you have to have a valid AQHA membership to do the transfer, so you can't transfer this to your "alias", unless you have an AQHA membership ID to go with the alias. I don't recall what AQHA asks for when submitting the forms for membership, but I seem to recall an SSN being in the mix somehow also, or at least it used to be.
    The horse is not AQHA. I know the registry (JC) and will have no problem transferring without a bill of sale.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2008
    Location
    Outside Ocala FL - Horse Capital of the World
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    I'm assuming that the JC also has the ability to provide current owner information on any horse if requested? If yes, then if the seller did want to "check up" on the horse, and you have it registered to you, they can find you.
    There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2011
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MunchkinsMom View Post
    I'm assuming that the JC also has the ability to provide current owner information on any horse if requested? If yes, then if the seller did want to "check up" on the horse, and you have it registered to you, they can find you.
    No, the JC does not release any owner information.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    An American Living In Ireland
    Posts
    5,658

    Default

    This is all a bit strange. Obviously you feel you have good reasons for doing so in your mind, but really? Do you actually know for a fact these people harass new owners? And wouldn't a simple "he's my horse now, F off" work?

    I have contact with the owners of most every horse I sold including the foreign ones. They contact me though. This board is a funny place. Try and make sure horses don't end up in bad situations and you're a meddling ole cow. Horse ends up in bad situation and you get crucified for selling to such people and not keeping an eye on said horse.

    I can't see any repercussions by using an alias but you do have to ask if you aren't blowing this a little out of proportion.

    Anyway best of luck,
    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,847

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HalteredFaultered View Post
    I'm posting under an alter for obvious reasons. I have been pining over a horse online for years. The seller that has a less than stellar reputation and people tend to keep away. I have contacted the seller under an alias and may be close to coming to a suitable sale agreement to bring said horse home.

    That said, what are the ramifications for buying a horse under an alias? Would they have any means to come after me, if they could find me? They don't know me from Adam, we have never met in person. Basically, I want to bring the horse home and fall off the face of the earth. The phone number I gave her is for an old prepaid cell phone that can go in the trash after all is said and done. I can cancel the e-mail account as contacting the seller is all I've used it for. They don't have any identifying information for me such as the town I live in or where I work - I've been very careful about saying too much. They are in another state, so our paths are highly unlikely to pass in the future. I only do small local dressage shows. They mostly do AQHA halter horses.

    Can my alias "transfer" the horse into my real name? I really want this horse, badly. Most horses wouldn't be worth this trouble, but I can't fault the horse for winding up in a bad spot. What would you do in this situation?
    Without knowing the parties involved directly, just going by what you say, I wonder if any problem in this lays more with you, not the seller.

    It just sounds a bit goofy not to just go buy whatever horse you want so bad outright, without all that drama.

    If I was selling a horse and someone acted like that, I would think they sure are a bit strange.

    If you really want to stay unknown, why not follow thru to check the horse out, then pass on him.
    Then send someone else to go ahead and buy the horse for you?

    As a seller, I would just think the buyer changed it's mind and sold the horse on to you, if they even learn later the current owner is someone else.

    Going thru all that still doesn't make much sense.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2009
    Location
    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
    Posts
    2,723

    Default

    Sounds like a lot of effort. First, why do an alias? If the old owner tries to control what the horse does, don't answer the phone. Can't you just have a SO or parent buy the horse?

    It does seem kind of odd. Is there a reason that the seller would not want to sell the horse to you? If the horse has been for sale for a long time, as you seem to indicate, the seller would be glad to have the horse gone. Unless there is a reason not to sell to YOU.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    17,780

    Default

    Why don't you just hire an agent to represent you? Sounds overly and unnecessarily complicated to me.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2008
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Do they know you/of you, if your real name was given? Would they still sell dobbin, if they knew where he was going? I'm just thinking "why lie"?

    Health certs & shipping info need to be filled out by her, with your address info.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2010
    Location
    Orygun
    Posts
    2,913

    Default

    While it does sound overly complicated, there are crazy horse people out there (no, really?) who seem on the up and up outwardly and then proceed to drive you batpoop nuts with meddling. I've dealt with one notable exception from another horse board.

    So, while the rest of us sane horse folks may think it's overly dramtic, the OP may feel he/she has a real potential prob and wants to get all the ducks in a row before committing.

    I think the "representative" is the best way to go. No one has to know.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2006
    Posts
    7,354

    Default

    That's completely bizarre, IMO.

    I agree that you're over complicating. Just buy the damn horse using your real name, and if the seller bothers you, tell them to F-off.

    Not to mention I'm not sure how legal it all is. Sounds like some kind of fraud to me.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2011
    Location
    In Washington with my little quackers
    Posts
    501

    Default

    The route you are taking, OP, sure seems strange but if you feel that's what you have to do...are you sure the JC wont release your name to them if they ask for it? They gave me the name of my old tb's previous owner when I was tracing his tattoo to find out who he was.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2010
    Location
    Catharpin, VA
    Posts
    1,062

    Default

    What cheektwocheek said.

    Makes me batty, these things, the dishonesty.

    Dishonest sellers make me batty. Dishonest buyers make me batty.

    If you don't want to deal directly with them, hire an agent. Yeah, you'll pay a fee/commish but they save you the hassle of dealing with the seller. You are 'client'.

    If they're really THAT obnoxious keeping tabs on the horses once they leave their care, pass. Pining for years or no, you may find you've been pining over a horse not worth the trouble.

    And IME once you start dealing in aliases, and people catch on, your credibility tends to go out the window. People question it, and "I don't want the owners tracking me down" may send up more red flags than just "Oh the previous owners are noseypants and this person enjoys privacy."

    Had a friend looking for horses and contacting trainers under an alias so another trainer wouldn't find out. You want to talk about embarrassing when a potential new trainer shows up and we're hanging out at the barn, they ask for X and we get to sit there while it's explained "Oh yeah, my real name is..."

    The sad part, pretty much everyone who wasn't supposed to knew who all these ads and what nots were anyway, so it was a lot of wasted effort that just made her look shadey.

    Imagine you're selling a horse. You think you're selling it to person X, then see the horse showing 'owened by" person Y, and then find out X and Y are the same person, and you were lied to. Yes LIED to about where your horse was going. Even for as 'innocent' a reason as not wanting to be bothered by the previous owners once the horse was in their care....think maybe you'd wonder WHY they didn't want you to be able to contact them other than they just like to be left alone as the horse is now THEIRS and not yours? If you know someone has a less than stellar reputation, just avoid business with them all together and save yourself from potentially tarnishing yours over something like that.
    Owned by a Paint/TB and an OTTB.
    RIP Scoutin' For Trouble ~ 2011 at 10
    RIP Tasha's Last Tango ~ 2010 at ~23
    RIP In Sha' Allah ~ 2009 too young at 5



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2011
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Thinking that one has to live in the shadows in fear of a horse seller is beyond pathetic.

    Buy the horse. Use your real name. If the seller becomes a stalker, get a restraining order. If they violate it have them arrested. If they get violent, shoot them.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,169

    Default

    I'd buy through an agent.
    If the horse is sold under conditions, such as right to take the horse back at any time, no re-sale allow, no racing allowed, no showing allowed, breeding only, no jumping, etc but you intend to do those things, then NO. Don't pass go and don't collect $200.

    If this were a thread about a seller doing something similar I would steer clear of that seller.

    If the above is not your case, then I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Are you sure you can't present your case openly and work something out?



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2001
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    Usually too far from the barn
    Posts
    8,794

    Default

    I'd be just as concerned that the OP has been pining for years over a sale horse. Why is his still for sale after all this time?
    F O.B
    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique



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