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  1. #81
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    Customer service! Wow, talk about a mismatch if temperament and job description.
    Click here before you buy.



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Oh my. You are having a bad day. Customer service. Hmmmm, I guess that would be one way to put it of being on the road for decades! Keep dreaming sunshine!

    Time to honk your horn again, side tracked thread coming through!
    Decades? You graduated from tech school in 2002. You work at a VCA small animal clinic. How is that "On the road"?
    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.



  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grataan View Post
    Clearly you have never heard of things such as iPhones, laptops in the truck, and DAYS OFF after a night on call. I cannot FATHOM you being allowed near clients let alone patients.

    Clearly you do not have much horse experience since you think that every horse can be dosed with oral medication. Do you not have any feline patients that have owners who are unable to pill them? This is no different.

    More then likely I have been doing this longer then you. If you like to take the easy way out and write scripts for convince sake that is up to you. You should try educating your clients. The point is, not every vet likes to break the law or bend the rules!



  4. #84
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Funny, I asked you!
    Yes, you did. And I answered you. If you'll go back in the thread, you will see I have quoted two manufacturers of pentosan.

    One is FDA approved, from a US manufacturer, available in capsule form, for human bladder issues.

    The other (equine injectible formulation) needs to be imported from Australia, with tons of paperwork and customs issues (as noted previously by an actual veterinarian).

    Are YOU aware of another manufacturer? I am genuinely curious. Stop dodging questions and just provide the answers - IF you have them....

    Techs like you are the reason I left veterinary practices (one large, referral only equine hospital where I mostly worked in the NICU and one large, referral only small animal hospital where I generally worked in the neurology ward). Not worth the hassle.

    Other people have posted their qualifications (vet, pharmacist, etc.) so others reading this thread are aware they might actually know what they're talking about. What's your qualifications?



  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarynls View Post
    Yes, you did. And I answered you. If you'll go back in the thread, you will see I have quoted two manufacturers of pentosan.

    One is FDA approved, from a US manufacturer, available in capsule form, for human bladder issues.

    The other (equine injectible formulation) needs to be imported from Australia, with tons of paperwork and customs issues (as noted previously by an actual veterinarian).

    Are YOU aware of another manufacturer? I am genuinely curious. Stop dodging questions and just provide the answers - IF you have them....

    Techs like you are the reason I left veterinary practices (one large, referral only equine hospital where I mostly worked in the NICU and one large, referral only small animal hospital where I generally worked in the neurology ward). Not worth the hassle.

    Other people have posted their qualifications (vet, pharmacist, etc.) so others reading this thread are aware they might actually know what they're talking about. What's your qualifications?
    So, you are advocating vets to break the law because you don't want to have the manufacturer ship the product here? If it is available through the manufacturer what is the basis for compounding it? And yes, serious question as to why it would be ok to do this?



  6. #86
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    May. 11, 2009
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    Dairyville USA
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    oh yes, I totally enjoy bending the rules. I'm just making it up, all horses poop butterflies, fart rainbows, and are completely easy to medicate in every manner.

    There is no shame in writing a prescription. There is no shame in using compounded medications. Using a compounded medication does not mean it is illegal unless it is on the banned list or is available in that form as an approved drug already. Just because I carry something in my Bowie box doesn't mean I'm peddling it. It's perfectly legal in my state for me to use compounded medications on patients. Maybe that's not legal in your state?

    You should climb down off your high horse and take of your judgey pants and just listen to other practitioner's points of view.
    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.



  7. #87
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    May. 11, 2009
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    Dairyville USA
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    You are aware, aren't you, that one can't just willy-nilly import medications from out of the country? That it is generally frowned upon by the government if there is an approved form already in the country that can be compounded into the desired form and strength?
    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.



  8. #88
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    Now we're back to insisting that compounding is across-the-board illegal again?
    Click here before you buy.



  9. #89
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    Feb. 6, 2000
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    MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    If I could only use drugs on-label for the conditions for which they're "officially" indicated, I would have about five things at my disposal for the 1000 different conditions I treat. My days would be short and I'd be out cleaning the barn by 10am, done for the day.

    Actually, well, I'd be in jail if using drugs "off label" was truly "illegal".
    FWIW, delta, the ELUD regs for humans are looses than those for domestic animals...
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  10. #90
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    So, you are advocating vets to break the law because you don't want to have the manufacturer ship the product here? If it is available through the manufacturer what is the basis for compounding it?
    a) No where did I ever say that I advocated ANY vet to "break the law" - or rather, what you THINK is "breaking the law". I certainly did not twist my vet's arm to get a prescription! HE SUGGESTED THE USE OF PENTOSAN.

    In my personal case, my vet preferrs to have pentosan compounded in a different strength/concentration than what is commercially available as the injectible form from Australia. WHICH IS LEGAL. And you didn't know that, because this is the first time I've written it. You ASSUMED. And we all know where assuming things gets you.

    See excerpt from AVMA compounding regulations below:

    Federal regulations require that in order to compound a drug legally:

    A valid Veterinarian-Client-Patient relationship (VCPR) must exist. YES, IT DOES

    The health of an animal must be threatened or suffering or death may result from failure to treat. SUFFERING - If you count lame as suffering, then yes.

    There must be no FDA-approved, commercially available animal or human drug that, when used as labeled or in an extralabel fashion in its available dosage form and concentration, will appropriately treat the patient. PENTOSAN IMPORTED FROM AUSTRALIA IS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE CONCENTRATION I HAVE.

    The product must be made from an FDA-approved commercially available animal or human drug. IT IS.

    The product must be compounded by a licensed veterinarian or a licensed pharmacist on the order of a veterinarian within the practice of veterinary medicine. YES, IT IS COMPOUNDED BY A LICENSED PHARMACIST, WHO FOLLOWS MY VET'S RX.

    The compounded product must be safe and effective. IT IS.

    The amount of product compounded must be commensurate with the need of the animal identified in the VCPR-based prescription. SEE ABOVE.

    For animals produced for human consumption, the veterinarian must establish an extended withdrawal interval for the compounded product and ensure food safety. Compounding is not permitted if it results in violative food residue, or any residue that may present a risk to public health. MY HORSE WILL NOT BE EATEN, SO NO ISSUE THERE.

    No drug may be compounded for food animals from drugs listed on the prohibited list. SEE ABOVE.

    Veterinarians must comply with all aspects of the federal extralabel drug use regulations including record-keeping and labeling requirements. YES, MY VET COMPLIES WITH ALL REQUIREMENTS.

    All relevant state laws relating to compounding must be followed. THAT'S A NO BRAINER.

    Sorry to spell this out, step by step, but you are just SO positive you're right on this matter and you are not taking all factors into account (the factors I listed above).
    Last edited by tarynls; Jan. 17, 2012 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Aussie info


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grataan View Post
    oh yes, I totally enjoy bending the rules. I'm just making it up, all horses poop butterflies, fart rainbows, and are completely easy to medicate in every manner.

    There is no shame in writing a prescription. There is no shame in using compounded medications. Using a compounded medication does not mean it is illegal unless it is on the banned list or is available in that form as an approved drug already. Just because I carry something in my Bowie box doesn't mean I'm peddling it. It's perfectly legal in my state for me to use compounded medications on patients. Maybe that's not legal in your state?

    You should climb down off your high horse and take of your judgey pants and just listen to other practitioner's points of view.
    If you were truly up on the laws, you would know it is not a per state issue. Just saying! BTW, I have listened to other practitioners for decades. I know of a couple out of like 30 that will write pentosan. NONE will write for compounded bute, there just isn't a good reason to any more. I can't think of a single time a vet I have worked for has.



  12. #92
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    Sep. 8, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarynls View Post
    a) No where did I ever say that I advocated ANY vet to "break the law" - or rather, what you THINK is "breaking the law". I certainly did not twist my vet's arm to get a prescription! HE SUGGESTED THE USE OF PENTOSAN.

    In my personal case, my vet preferrs to have pentosan compounded in a different strength/concentration than what is commercially available. WHICH IS LEGAL. And you didn't know that, because this is the first time I've written it. You ASSUMED. And we all know where assuming things gets you.

    See excerpt from AVMA compounding regulations below:

    Federal regulations require that in order to compound a drug legally:

    A valid Veterinarian-Client-Patient relationship (VCPR) must exist. YES, IT DOES

    The health of an animal must be threatened or suffering or death may result from failure to treat. SUFFERING - If you count lame as suffering, then yes.

    There must be no FDA-approved, commercially available animal or human drug that, when used as labeled or in an extralabel fashion in its available dosage form and concentration, will appropriately treat the patient. PENTOSAN IMPORTED FROM AUSTRALIA IS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE CONCENTRATION I HAVE.

    The product must be made from an FDA-approved commercially available animal or human drug. IT IS.

    The product must be compounded by a licensed veterinarian or a licensed pharmacist on the order of a veterinarian within the practice of veterinary medicine. YES, IT IS COMPOUNDED BY A LICENSED PHARMACIST, WHOM FOLLOWS MY VET'S RX.

    The compounded product must be safe and effective. IT IS.

    The amount of product compounded must be commensurate with the need of the animal identified in the VCPR-based prescription. SEE ABOVE.

    For animals produced for human consumption, the veterinarian must establish an extended withdrawal interval for the compounded product and ensure food safety. Compounding is not permitted if it results in violative food residue, or any residue that may present a risk to public health. MY HORSE WILL NOT BE EATEN, SO NO ISSUE THERE.

    No drug may be compounded for food animals from drugs listed on the prohibited list. SEE ABOVE.

    Veterinarians must comply with all aspects of the federal extralabel drug use regulations including record-keeping and labeling requirements. YES, MY VET COMPLIES WITH ALL REQUIREMENTS.

    All relevant state laws relating to compounding must be followed. THAT'S A NO BRAINER.

    Sorry to spell this out, step by step, but you are just SO positive you're right on this matter and you are not taking all factors into account (the factors I listed above).
    If you would have simply said that your vet has a custom doseage made up then I could see, but you decided to play games!

    And yes, in that case, it would make sense but it is a bit of a stretch of the law but yes, it is a loophole.



  13. #93
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grataan View Post
    You are aware, aren't you, that one can't just willy-nilly import medications from out of the country? That it is generally frowned upon by the government if there is an approved form already in the country that can be compounded into the desired form and strength?
    We tried to get pergolide tablets imported from the UK before Prascend became available in the US. No go. Not one UK pharmacy would accept a veterinary prescription from a vet licensed in the US.

    I know I mentioned before we used to import a cardiac drug from the UK prior to it being available in the US. The important part there is the prescribing vet went to vet school in the UK and was licensed to practice veterinary medicine in both the UK and US.



  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    If you would have simply said that your vet has a custom doseage made up then I could see, but you decided to play games!

    And yes, in that case, it would make sense but it is a bit of a stretch of the law but yes, it is a loophole.
    How on EARTH are you calling this a "loophole"?

    The compounding rules are quite clear on this. If a drug is not commercially available in the strength/concentration required by the animal, than compounding that strength/concentration is PREFECTLY legal.


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  15. #95
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    What I want to know davistina, is why you care so darn much? Why would it matter to you if some vet you'd never heard of in another state writes an "illegal" script, or a lay person floats someone else's horse's teeth, or someone else's horse is out on clover and gets the slobbers, or someone feeds their horse round bales?
    Really I want to know how you've become the insanely vehement police for these subjects.
    “While the rest of the species is descended from apes, redheads are descended from cats.” Mark Twain



  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarynls View Post
    How on EARTH are you calling this a "loophole"?

    The compounding rules are quite clear on this. If a drug is not commercially available in the strength/concentration required by the animal, than compounding that strength/concentration is PREFECTLY legal.
    Then why did your vet determine that they know more then anyone else doing research including csu? Just asking.



  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabula rashah View Post
    What I want to know davistina, is why you care so darn much? Why would it matter to you if some vet you'd never heard of in another state writes an "illegal" script, or a lay person floats someone else's horse's teeth, or someone else's horse is out on clover and gets the slobbers, or someone feeds their horse round bales?
    Really I want to know how you've become the insanely vehement police for these subjects.
    Honestly, it gets old when clients ask for scripts because they said they saw on the internet board that other vets write scripts for this stuff. Is it a good product, yes. Will most vets write it, no way. That is why! It gets very old for anyone working in a legit vet practice.



  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Then why did your vet determine that they know more then anyone else doing research including csu? Just asking.
    I cannot respond to your statement as it makes absolutely no sense. Where did I say my vet knows more than anyone else? Oh, that's right. I didn't.

    My vet prescribes medications appropriate for my horse's weight and medical issues (as should all vets). I will not explain them to you; frankly, it's none of your business.



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    If you would have simply said that your vet has a custom doseage made up then I could see, but you decided to play games!
    .
    The only one playing games is you.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarynls View Post
    I cannot respond to your statement as it makes absolutely no sense. Where did I say my vet knows more than anyone else? Oh, that's right. I didn't.

    My vet prescribes medications appropriate for my horse's weight and medical issues (as should all vets). I will not explain them to you; frankly, it's none of your business.
    Avoiding the question? Why is you horse so special? Do you get Legend compounded also because your horse has some special weight?



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