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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2006
    Posts
    1,713

    Default Should I be unhappy with my farrier for this?

    brief history.. moved barns in October. Old farrier is technically retired so I used this opportunity to go back to a farrier I used a few years ago.

    I like his shoeing job he does on my horse. That's not the problem. Last shoeing, I couldn't make it to the barn to be there. No worries, BO brought my horse in and farrier shod him. But he put snow pads and studs on without me asking him to do it. To the tune of an extra $60 (putting my bill with tax over $250.00). I have never put snow pads on my guy, even last year when he was in aluminum (now in steel). AND we have no snow yet. Not even a dusting. So i guess i am peeved because he didn't even text me or call to ask if I wanted them on.

    I paid him the base bill of $180 before he sent me the bill in the mail, so I guess i owe him about $60. Still kind of bent because we (a) still don't have snow and (b) he didn't ask if I wanted the extras.

    Would you be miffed too? Should i just suck it up and deal with it?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2011
    Location
    In Washington with my little quackers
    Posts
    501

    Default

    Have you asked him why he put the pads and studs on? Did you ask the BO? Sounds like there was a big miscommunication here.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2009
    Posts
    1,806

    Default

    I don't think farrier should do anything different w/o consulting you and unless BO asked him to put the snow pads and studs on I would not pay. (is it possible BO did this possibly confusing it with another client's horse?)

    If not BO then I would just call farrier and advise you did not want the pads/studs and you are not going to pay for it, in a kind and friendly way. At very least let him know you did not want this and are peeved about the extra cost.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
    Posts
    13,787

    Default

    Just TALK TO HIM. It may have been a simple mistake or communication error. Barn Owner might have said something to him, or somebody told him to put the extras on a different horse and he made a mistake. I would talk to him on the phone before I would get mad about it on a public message board.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2004
    Location
    Whidbey Is, Wash.
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    I'd ask the BO and then the farrier, in that order, what the deal was with the pads. Could be either the farrier asked the BO and BO authorized, or BO asked for them straight out, or farrier just assumed. Any of these would get a different reaction from me. Also depends on the type of barn you are in now. Does the BO normally make decisions for his/her boarders?
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
    Posts
    3,589

    Default

    I'd be miffed.

    Another question though - I've never heard of anyone paying tax on shoeing - is this common?



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
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    13,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kate66 View Post
    Another question though - I've never heard of anyone paying tax on shoeing - is this common?
    Yes. The farrier has to pay the IRS so they have to charge tax to their customers. Some of them build it into the cost of services, and some add the tax on top.

    You have probably used farriers who didn't tell you they were charging tax, but just built it into the cost of their services so you didn't know any different.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2001
    Location
    Purcellville, VA
    Posts
    5,952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    Yes. The farrier has to pay the IRS so they have to charge tax to their customers. Some of them build it into the cost of services, and some add the tax on top.

    You have probably used farriers who didn't tell you they were charging tax, but just built it into the cost of their services so you didn't know any different.
    It is less likely him adding in his income tax, but more likely that he is in one of the many states that requires a sales tax be collected on services, and he is running an honest, above the table business.

    If he was adding in his income taxes to the IRS in on top, it would likely be a 30% addition, because then his income would be even higher and so he'd be paying income taxes on the income taxes he had been attempting to collect.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaddleFitterVA View Post
    It is less likely him adding in his income tax, but more likely that he is in one of the many states that requires a sales tax be collected on services, and he is running an honest, above the table business.
    It is most likely sales tax although I was not aware that services were taxable in any states. I'm certainly not up on those laws in every state so that may well be the case.

    I agree that you should call him and ask him why he put the snow pads on. It is most likely a mistake or mixed communication.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2011
    Posts
    822

    Default

    Depends on state laws. In NC, services are not taxable so my farrier could not charge me a sales tax--they don't have that to report and turn in. I don't see how one could legally charge a "tax" if there is no law that requires it to be collected. The separate tax as an income tax makes no sense as it is dependent on annual income, etc. So in this case either the farrier is doing things correctly as he is in a state that requires sales tax on services or he is wrongfully collecting it.

    As for the original topic, just pick up the phone. I mean really. It makes no since to get all upset over something without knowing the details and where the communication broke down.
    Last edited by ponysize; Jan. 4, 2012 at 12:28 PM. Reason: .



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    14,200

    Default

    Communicate before you get yourself upset.

    Call the barn owner and ask if there was a discussion about it.
    Then call the farrier and discuss it.

    Curious, when you used this farrier before, did you tend to put snow pads on your horse?



    I would guess the tax mentioned is sales tax.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    5,429

    Default

    I'd ask him and the BO to figure out what happened. We've had similar stuff happen at our barn when the owner wasn't clear about what they wanted or somebody got confused. The guy isn't a mind reader -- just ask him what happened. Maybe the BO said everybody needs snow pads or something, meaning a certain group of horses and yours got included. I would have thought that the farrier would have seen the check you left and figured out you just wanted the basic shoeing, but I'd still make some inquiries to see what happened.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    3,503

    Default

    Why waste valuable energy and thinking on what may be just a simple misunderstanding? TALK ... with your farrier. Ask him why he put on the studs and pads since you never requested them. As was mentioned, perhaps the BO said something to lead him to believe that you wanted them. Be positive about it rather than allowing all that negative stuff to build up and cause *you* to feel badly. It just takes away from all the 'good stuff' and life is short enough as it is to be piling up and carrying all sorts of nasty stuff around w/you.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    IMO the answer to this question probably depends on whether or not you intend to retain the services of your farrier.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    33,721

    Default

    In all the years I have been in this, I only twice had a farrier do anything extra when I was not there and that was because the BO either asked directly for it or gave the impression I wanted it.

    There was no problem adjusting the charges however I did pay for the materials used for the pour in pads-I refused to pay the extra 15 for a drill and tap-on a 3' Hunter- in the other case.

    Since you were not there and you had not recently used this farrier, I don't necessarily think you got screwed.

    Talk to them both and see what happened. Make your wishes clear to both and don't assume they know what you want or don't want.

    I'd probably pay for it this time, the farrier did the work and provided the materials out of pocket so thought that is what you wanted. Just make sure you are clear in the future.

    Better yet, try to be there.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2010
    Posts
    548

    Default

    He probably did what is best for the horse.
    You say you just moved there, studs are good for ice. It is cold out and maybe around the barn it gets icey? They do better in studs, for the horse's safety.
    Pay and Pray we get ice and snow, then the cost was well worth it.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2003
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    7,950

    Default

    The local Hunt horses had their studs and snow rim pads on around the end of Oct. Been shod again since then, with almost NO snow to require their snow rim pad use. The only bad snow was on non-Hunt days! Ice studs are
    always helpful, horse had traction wherever he goes.

    However last year, we got frozen ground in Oct. with snow, heavy, cold, stayed on the ground from Thanksgiving until Feb. Used those studs and snow rim pads on a daily basis so the horses had no slipping injuries, snowball effect ridden or in the pasture. Worth the money.

    You have your horse shod to be prepared for any weather with studs and snow rim pads or take your chances of him getting hurt in turnout if weather sneaks up on you. No one ever REALLY knows what you will get in winter, you go with past experience. Some folks here wrote about injured equines with slips and falls, some hurt badly enough to put down, from no traction on bad ground last winter. This is always a possibility with no studs in shoes, weather surprises.

    You evidently didn't make your wishes clear to either BO or Farrier, so they made the decision. Pay up to keep relations going well with the Farrier, and as everyone else said, TALK to both of them to make your wishes CLEAR in shoeing wants for that horse.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2007
    Posts
    3,928

    Default

    I would also definitely talk to him. My guess is that either the BO told him to, or pretty much all the other horses were getting them so without explicit "don't put snow pads on this horse" instructions he just assumed your horse got the same thing. Remember, a farrier works on a lot of horses and a lot of them do kind of blur together after awhile until they've been clients for awhile. Depending on the size of your barn, he might not have even realized in the moment that it was a new horse. Also, if you plan on putting snow pads on at all this winter, something might have gotten lost in communication there.

    So in other words, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and not get mad about it. I would talk to him (politely!) about it though. Some owners are okay with their farrier just using his or her discretion without consulting the owner, but most do want to be consulted before something major is changed and it won't hurt to make it clear to him (again, nicely) that you fall into the latter category.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
    Posts
    1,871

    Default

    I would ask the BO if it was discused between them and the farrier and if BO is te one who requested wanted the pads etc. If so, in my opinion the BO should pay the extra since you did not request it. i
    If it turns out it was it was not discussed and the farrier just did it, then thefarrier should eat it. It is his mistake to not get agreement from you first, and he wont do it again.
    As to sales tax on materials it varies from state to state and also on how the farrier has te business set up. Some do it that way, charging materials seperately, but many(most) do not, and just include materials as "supplies".
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
    Posts
    1,871

    Default

    PS I always ask horse owners this time of year if they want snow pads, and suggest it if I feel it is needed. but I never just put them on without permission.
    If they want to chop snowballs out of the feet that is their decision after I educate them on the options. I may occasionaly put in a couple of tungsten tipped nails in a particular icy barn, but I don't charge extra for it if it was not requested first.
    I then inform the owner that it was done and ask them to let me know how it worked and if they want them the next time. (they usually do agree it was a good idea and willingly pay the extra to have it done the next time )
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



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