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  1. #1
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Default Those Who Take the Most and Pay the Least Taxes

    http://front.moveon.org/d-which-corp...224336-KArtEwx

    Some people always state that 47% of Americans don't pay taxes. They forget to say "federal" taxes and forget about ALL other taxes. "In most cases, tax filers who don’t pay federal income tax are still on the hook for other taxes. They can still be responsible for payroll taxes, withheld from their paychecks, and for excise taxes on gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, and other goods. And they may have to pay income tax at the state or local level."

    About 50% of Americans make less than 25k a year.

    These are the high income earners who pay nothing in federal taxes:
    http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/04/...axes/?mod=e2tw

    Who does it make sense to go after for "cheating" on paying taxes?



  2. #2
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Default

    To answer your question:

    1) Because everyone pays stuff like sales tax and the like. Therefore, take that out of the equation.

    2) The Feds need a way to convince most people who can pay taxes to think that they should. Why not cheat yourself if cheaters aren't caught and hung up by their fingernails?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  3. #3
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Default

    I don't agree with 1. Everyone pays sales tax and such, but the lower earners end up paying a much higher percent of income as they have so much less money.

    Number 2. It seems focusing on the BIGGEST freeloaders who don't need the help would be the place to focus, not the ones who really aren't making that much. Look at the Elizabeth Warren post about catching the cheaters.



  4. #4
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    Oct. 25, 2006
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    Central Illinois
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    Default

    Hmmm, are u insane? Do you really believe that the "RICH" dont pay their FAIR share of Federal Taxes?

    Some reality for you....

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/income...hopaysmost.htm

    "•The share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent of taxpayers will rise from 32.3 percent to 33.7 percent."

    AGAIN, the TOP 1% of taxpayers, PAY OVER A THIRD OF ALL TAXES!!

    •Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.

    The TOP HALF of taxpayers pay 96% of all taxes.

    •The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will fall from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent.

    The BOTTOM HALF will pay 3.6%.

    This is reality of who pays the Federal Taxes. I am SOOO sick of what you are doing. Quit the class warfare BS.

    Perhaps, if the Govt would quit spending so much that put us so deeply in debt, that money would quit being wasted. Instead, it goes down a deep black hole. Obama has destroyed our dollar, it's value is at a record low.

    If China quits buying our debt, we are screwed. There are serious issues that are happening now, and you want to start w/class warfare, really?!?!



  5. #5
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    Default

    Shermy--You really need to work on the numbers thing. Your class warfare BS FOR the super rich (which I assume you're not) show the mastery of brainwashing.

    12% raise in pay for 99% in the last 20 years. 300% raise for the super rich. The Walmart family makes more money than 30% of the WHOLE COUNTRY. The super rich are paying FAR less than they ever have, and average less than you are I. Keep defending them.

    If you want to stop spending, get of of wars. They just spent $650 billion on the military. We're in debt because Bush cut the taxes for super rich AND went to a fake war AND didn't count it in the budget which mysteriously jumped that amount when Obama got in office and counted it in. Oh my!

    Keep defending that Exxon pay NO taxes, makes the most profit ever AND keeps getting federal subsidies.



  6. #6
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    Oct. 25, 2006
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    Central Illinois
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    Default

    WHAT? So, the numbers from the IRS numbers are something that I am "playing with" or am brainwashed?? Seriously?? You really think they are not correct in showing WHO does pay the Federal Taxes.

    Also, wealth is NOT a zero sum game. I think you believe it is....

    RICH people are the majority of small business owners. They file their taxes as individuals. They create jobs, invest THEIR money, and work hard for what they get. A big percentage of businesses fail. They EARN their money.

    If I start a business and it is successful, I do NOT take money from what you make. Rich people CREATE wealth by putting other people to work. Our economy grows w/those dreaded RICH people.

    Are you really blaming Bush for the incredible debt we have? What about Obama's rampant spending. OBAMA is responsible for the falling value of our dollar.

    REALLY, you need to educate yourself on the facts.



  7. #7
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    Spooner, WI
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    Default

    You know what? I know very few *small business* owners that are in the 1%. Do you know who the 1% really is?



  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shermy View Post
    RICH people are the majority of small business owners. They file their taxes as individuals.
    If they do that they are idiots.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Shermy, you post these same "facts" for EVERY discussion on OT day, and they have been proven incorrect, illread, or whatever.

    You're DEFENDING Exxon, Chevron, Bank of America, GE, Boeing, Valero, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Conoco Philips and Carnival not only paying NO taxes with record profits, but getting refunds??!!

    Seriously, I do NOT get how anyone is getting you to do that.

    Oh, I'll repeat "We're in debt because Bush cut the taxes for super rich AND went to a fake war AND didn't count it in the budget which mysteriously jumped that amount when Obama got in office and counted it in. Oh my!"

    [On a personal note, the overdramatic flair is a bit annoying, but I do like talking to you because it gives me insight as to how people can think like this and you DO seem to want to explain and don't get nasty and name-calling as others. I just think you're way, way wrong. I hope to bring you over from the dark side one of these days. I am not being mean. I don't think you're a bad person. You seem sincere in your statements.]



  10. #10
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    Nov. 19, 2003
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    Default

    Shermy, I love you.

    Keep yellin' the truth. The Koolaide Drinkers won't listen, but the rest of us are going



  11. #11
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    Default

    I worked in accounting for a fairly rich individual (his wife got a monthly allowance which was about six months' salary for me and when she kept over drafting her account he just doubled it). He paid less in individual income taxes than I did making $11/hr.

    Jennifer



  12. #12
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Default

    And I thought the world had tried communism already and it didn't work too well?

    Yep, class warfare will get some elected, rousing the rabble to vote for me, I will even "it" for all, I promise.

    As a horse professional, I worked for many years for some of the "rich" and you know, I was glad to do so, to have that opportunity, to have someone that could support a stable full of top horses and do well with all they did.

    Most of those were, just like the rest of us, extremely nice people, that worked hard.

    The idea of the "filthy and immoral rich" is like everything else, exaggerations and taken out of context on a few examples, just as the "family, even generations now, of the lazy bum on medicaid and SSI" is.

    We need to understand where everyone fits in our world, our economy and work with what we have and that is by being FAIR to everyone, not taking from the "rich" so they are not rich any more and to give it to the "poor, so it can live like the rich".

    The ideal would not be to take from the rich, but to help those that can't make it and help everyone become the rich, called raise the standard of living.
    That is what you have when you manage a capitalistic society.

    Lets work to make the world better for all, but don't let that blind us to think that those that can and do the best for themselves need to be made to give it up, so a few more of the rest of us can live better, not any more than they already do.

    There is a fine line between helping those that can't help themselves, helping those that can do better for themselves, both we already do in the USA with the system we have and taking such a big bite of all someone makes, on the idea that "we" know best how to keep running the economy and pay those that don't make to have a very good living anyway.
    Sorry, a stable society with a good, thriving economy won't be supported by that, has been tried before.

    Let's not look with envy at those that do best and go after them to bring them down to our level, what are they thinking, those "filthy rich".
    Why? Because by doing that we are slowing the growth of our societies and so slowing the process that provides so more can achieve a better standard of living.



  13. #13
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    If they do that they are idiots.
    A great many businesses are LLC's. So yes, they are taxed as individuals in a sense.

    And they are taxed heavily. So much so that I wonder why people bother to start a business anymore. If the person is lucky enough to succeed, (most fail), then yes, their accountant will help them take advantage of every tax loophole there is. So would you if you were in their position. The purpose of owning a business is to make money, after all. Why else would you risk your live savings, mortgage your house to the hilt, and stick your neck out on an idea or product? There has to be a chance at succeeding.

    I fail to see how that is a bad thing. Unless the business owner is committing an illegal act, complaining about his success just sounds like sour grapes and class envy. If you want to live the lifestyle he's living, then stick your own neck out, risk everything, work your butt off and earn your own riches if you are lucky enough to succeed.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat the Horse View Post
    Shermy, I love you.

    Keep yellin' the truth. The Koolaide Drinkers won't listen, but the rest of us are going
    Then why would Warren Buffett think that millionaires should pay more tax?



  15. #15
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    Nov. 6, 2002
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    Henrico, NC 36 30'50.49" N 77 50'17.47" W
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    http://front.moveon.org/d-which-corp...224336-KArtEwx

    Some people always state that 47% of Americans don't pay taxes. They forget to say "federal" taxes and forget about ALL other taxes. "In most cases, tax filers who don’t pay federal income tax are still on the hook for other taxes. They can still be responsible for payroll taxes, withheld from their paychecks, and for excise taxes on gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, and other goods. And they may have to pay income tax at the state or local level."

    About 50% of Americans make less than 25k a year.

    These are the high income earners who pay nothing in federal taxes:
    http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/04/...axes/?mod=e2tw

    Who does it make sense to go after for "cheating" on paying taxes?

    Not to even get into your question, but the comment about what percentage pay any is probably pretty close. 48.5 percent live off of govenment checks.

    Since tax rates on higher incomes have gone down since the '50s, and current rates have been enjoyed since Buch lowered them, where are the jobs that these "job creators" have created during these times?

    The trouble with lowering taxes ever, is that it's almost impossible to ever go back and raise them to any point that they were before.



  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alterhorse View Post
    Then why would Warren Buffett think that millionaires should pay more tax?

    Maybe he or his friends are running for something and need votes?



  17. #17
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    Nov. 11, 2002
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    Default

    I found this interesting... this is what happens when you enable the lazy... http://moonbattery.com/?p=6238


    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-



  18. #18
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    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
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    Default

    According to the article you linked:

    The number of HINTs paying no state income taxes also is surging. In California, 2,430 upper-income households paid no state income taxes in 2008, according to this San Diego Union-Tribune article. The households amount to less than 1% of the total of top earners, but their numbers have jumped from 579 non-payers in 1997. (Only 4% of top earners paid the state’s official top rate of more than 9% in 2008, and yet the top 1% of earners still paid more than 40% of the state’s income taxes.)

    In New York, another supposedly high-tax state, 1,573 resident taxpayers with income more than $250,000 didn’t pay any state income tax in 2008, according to the state’s budget office.

    We aren’t talking about illegal tax-evasion here. Having a large income and paying no taxes is legal as long as you have expert tax attorneys and the right deductions.


    So.....fewer than 4000 people are paying no income taxes because they are making legal deductions.

    What is to "go after?"

    Some of the deduction are 'debatable' but presumably most of them are not. Otherwise, they would be called "illegal tax evaders." Maybe they are extremely generous and give most of their money to charity?

    My dh has an LLC and a regular job and we pay $$$ for expert tax attorneys and we still pay lots in taxes. The government certainly gets enough money from legitimate businesses and "the rich"....enough to probably spend their time going after tax evaders rather than nitpick 4000 people's deductions.



  19. #19
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    Jun. 1, 2001
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    Rosco, GA
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    Default

    Our current administration considers those who make over $250,000 a year rich. That is comfortable, but not rich. If I own a dry cleaners and make that, but spen $100,000 on new equipment, I can only write off 7% of the cost of that equipment. I am being taxed on the other 93% as income.

    Hmm

    I agree with Bluey, classifying everyone with "resources" as filthy rich is wrong.

    I also think it is ironic that here on a horse forum wealthy people are being bashed. Horses are a good example of how the wealthy benefit all of us. Who can afford regular equine massage and chiros? Who can afford board fencing and fancy barns? Who can afford to have large tracts of property? Who has clinics at ther fancy facilities? Who hires excersize riders, barn managers, trainers, caterers, landscapers, etc? And those are not horrid jobs. For many people those are their dream jobs. And the poor and middle to lower middle class don't hire these people regularly enough for them to make a living.

    Lets not lump our neighbors into the same group as Nanci Pelosi, oh I mean Exxon.



  20. #20
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    According to the article you linked:

    The number of HINTs paying no state income taxes also is surging. In California, 2,430 upper-income households paid no state income taxes in 2008, according to this San Diego Union-Tribune article. The households amount to less than 1% of the total of top earners, but their numbers have jumped from 579 non-payers in 1997. (Only 4% of top earners paid the state’s official top rate of more than 9% in 2008, and yet the top 1% of earners still paid more than 40% of the state’s income taxes.)

    In New York, another supposedly high-tax state, 1,573 resident taxpayers with income more than $250,000 didn’t pay any state income tax in 2008, according to the state’s budget office.

    We aren’t talking about illegal tax-evasion here. Having a large income and paying no taxes is legal as long as you have expert tax attorneys and the right deductions.


    So.....fewer than 4000 people are paying no income taxes because they are making legal deductions.

    What is to "go after?"

    Some of the deduction are 'debatable' but presumably most of them are not. Otherwise, they would be called "illegal tax evaders." Maybe they are extremely generous and give most of their money to charity?

    My dh has an LLC and a regular job and we pay $$$ for expert tax attorneys and we still pay lots in taxes. The government certainly gets enough money from legitimate businesses and "the rich"....enough to probably spend their time going after tax evaders rather than nitpick 4000 people's deductions.

    Right, those that call deductions "loopholes" don't understand that those may be, like my job was, a horse operation, that happen to provide jobs for many, many of the rest of us.

    That horse operation may have made "the filthy rich" taxes be smaller with all those deductions for all they were paying, salaries, veterinary and feed bills, taxes on the land and improvements (ever seen those bills? ) and other such.

    Like I said, those that decry that some SEEM to make much money and not pay enough taxes, if they are paying what they have to by law, are not cheating, then, well, that is the way all of us have our chances at making our money, off those "filthy rich" people's spending.

    In reality, how a society works, who contributes their share, who gets the breaks, depends on so much else than we can say, "make it equal to everyone, down with the filthy rich, cut their heads off!"

    That is like killing the goose that is laying many of our economic golden eggs in capitalistic countries, just as we would do if we don't see to the really needy.

    It is hard to hit a perfect balance running societies, so all are protected, none over protected, none taking undue advantage.
    We can and should work at making the process of doing that better, we won't do well by fighting blindly around, following false prophets wanting to dismantle what we have, as the call for "more taxes on the filthy rich" does.



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