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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2010
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    363

    Default If you were considering a baucher...

    ...for a horse with a low palate and thick tongue, what brands/types would you consider? Said horse is fairly soft in the bridle and responsive, but can get worried and grind on the bit at times. Can carry herself quite well but is also opportunistic about getting heavy on the forehand and becoming too heavy if allowed.

    Horse tends to open her mouth at times, even if the contact is light and rider is not heavy handed or pulling - horse just has a very large, fat tongue. Horse does not go in a flash.

    I'm looking for the increased stability that a baucher would offer, preferably with a double joint, but not too thick of a mouthpiece. Am wondering about the Stubben sweet copper version but am also curious about what others are using or recommend.

    Thanks in advance!
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

    A Voice Halted



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2007
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,992

    Default

    This is the bit I use:
    http://www.legacytack.com/p/11413/Al...ucher+Bit.html

    I bought mine from Dover, but it's the same maker. No poll pressure, but that's a fairly common misconception.

    My mare has a low palate. She goes very well in this.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2008
    Location
    Windsor SC till Aug
    Posts
    1,410

    Default

    My two fat tongued ponies go in a Glory liverpool for driving, and my cob goes in a Glory baucher for dressage work (they wont make me one small enough for my other girl...) It's not a mullen or an arch mouth, it's an arch on a 45 degree angle to fit the mouth better. They seem to really like the mix of metals for the mouth piece too, i get nice foamy lips, it's really nice to see foamy lips while driving!

    They mostly like the stability of it and neither of them are happy in a double joint snaffle, both will tolerate it, but i do not get the softness and quiet out of them that i get with the Glory's.

    Admittedly, due to neither of them being fond of the double joint snaffles i've tried both thicker and thinner diameter mouth pieces and various shapes of oval and dog bone centers, i didnt even try a double joint baucher. My smaller pony rides in a single joint D ring. I tried a mullen egg butt on her and she hated it, puts her tongue over the bit 90% of the ride and drives me nuts. She'll do the same in a double joint snaffle. She's in a regular D ring snaffle and will go ok, but she get's a bit heavy on me. I sure wish i could get the Glory baucher that small.

    A plus to me in this day and age of outsourcing and fueling other countries economies... Glory bits are hand made in the USA. They are generally only carried by stores geared towards driving, and may not be advertised on the website/catalog, but they can be ordered by any Glory dealer. I use CountryCarriagesUsa.com to order my bits from. Claudette is great at getting me what i need. They run about $100.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2011
    Posts
    85

    Default

    I have a Fjord who goes in one of these. I am not 100% on the brand, but it is a french link baucher, not overly expensive I think I paid $50. I had to order it especially from England for him because I needed a 6" one which is very hard to find! (I haven't found a tack shop in Aus. that carries them hanging instore let alone having one in 6")

    He had basically had his mouth ruined (previous owner was riding in a twisted wire single jointed snaffle) and freight trained (read as bolted) through every bit (all were single jointed, thin sweet iron, gag and the twisted wire). I was advised to ride him in a Dutch Gag, which made the problem worse (he bolted through that aswell). He was then put in a kimberwick, which he hated just as much (every ride without fail his tongue would go straight over it)

    Back to basics in a rubber mullen, then a loose ring french link, and finally the french link Baucher and he has never gone better. He will never be very soft and is still a bit of a tank at times, but he responds to this bit and is happy to listen to it instead of take off and we do get some lovely work out of him and he will take the contact gently and carry it instead of grabbing it and galloping off. I think he would bolt as a pain reaction, especially being a very thick tongued and low palated horse with a single jointed twisted wire bit giving him a strong dose of nut cracker action on the roof of his poor mouth.

    I know quite a few horses who appreciate the stability of the baucher, mine has never gone better. There's no gag action as some people think -if there was my horse would not stand for it!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
    Posts
    6,723

    Default

    Start by determining what mm width will work and stick to that width. Check out nuschule bits , myler , and JP Korsteel for thinner bits.
    With a fat sensitive tongue I'd avoid bean centers because of their weight.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2011
    Posts
    1,808

    Default

    My Arab with a similar mouth likes his JP Korsteel oval mouth eggbutt bit. He seems to prefer the bean over the flat link for whatever reason. The JP Korsteels are pretty inexpensive ($20-45) depending where you look. He didn't like the much thinner Mylers I tried.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2000
    Location
    Concord, NH
    Posts
    4,997

    Default

    I bought a $25 from my local tack shop - as an experiment I didn't need to spend a lot of money. Turned out to work just fine.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    8,259

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    On my old horse, who had a very shallow mouth, large tongue, I used the Centerline $31 French link Baucher and he was very happy. My youngster, who went nutso with a loose-ring French link (kept tossing it around in his mouth and fussing, even on a slack rein), so I tried him in the Baucher. I got the narrowest (16 mm?) available inthe Steubben Baucher (about $58-$75 depending on where/when you get it, i.e., cheaper at HorseExpo) with the bean in the middle, and he's very happy with that. That bit is thicker, however, than the Centerline one. Years ago, I used the standard HSS version in 14 mm., but I can't afford their French link version any more, the prices have risen so much on the HSS bits.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2011
    Posts
    1,188

    Default

    I have several...my horses like and go well in the German silver, no bean, no french link. I've had it for years...I just can't remember who made it..but they go better in it than the non-German silver ones..JMHO



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 24, 2010
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Dumb question, but I /think/ it pertains to this thread somewhat, but how do you tell if your horse has a thick tongue and how high or low their palate is? If I stick my finger in the side of my horse's mouth it seems as though his tongue fills up the available space?

    Thanks and I hope my question didn't detract from the thread



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    14,174

    Default

    Had a similar problem. The horse's tongue was so thick that any jointed bit wouldn't even give a correct contact against the bars of the horse's mouth. The palate was so low that any bit in his mouth was just a too much for him. Ended up in a Dr Bristol (one reason why I hate that they are outlawing them) because it has such a narrow profile when on their tongue. It's flat in the bean part and they have multiple versions from an egg butt to a loose ring, depending on what you need and what you're horse likes.

    Yes, it does put pressure on the tongue more than the bars, but with a fat tongue and low palate, you just cannot avoid this!

    As for the question with the space in a horse's mouth, if you have a horse with a flat palate, you'll feel it when you stick your finger in the mouth. It feels fairly level/flat, rather than concave. A fat tongue can fill up all the space and if you put a bit in their mouth, you'll see that it's pushed up against the teeth on both sides as well as the front and back. With horses that have a more normal tongue, you'll see that the weight doesn't really change the way the tongue lies or fits in the mouth when you add a bit.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2011
    Posts
    1,188

    Default

    Small muzzle...gaping..indicate that the bit might be too thick for example.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
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    4,972

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    Quote Originally Posted by froglander View Post
    Dumb question, but I /think/ it pertains to this thread somewhat, but how do you tell if your horse has a thick tongue and how high or low their palate is? If I stick my finger in the side of my horse's mouth it seems as though his tongue fills up the available space?

    Thanks and I hope my question didn't detract from the thread
    If you do what Velvet suggests and still can't tell, you can also ask your horse's dentist, as they look at many more mouths than the average person.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
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    Triangle Area, NC
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    Default

    Velvet, I was using a dr b for my boy with same anatomical challenges, and he's doing great in a myler French link loose ring. Just buy 1/4" smaller than you normally would.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
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    8,259

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    Velvet, I was using a dr b for my boy with same anatomical challenges, and he's doing great in a myler French link loose ring. Just buy 1/4" smaller than you normally would.
    My youngster DETESTED the Myler french loose ring. Too "loose" I think. He seems to prefer the relative "quietness" of the Baucher.

    As for "how do you know," my old boy's tongue literally pooched out the sides of his mouth, even when his mouth was quiet and closed. I doubt many cases are that extreme, but it was clearly evident that he needed a relatively thin bit, and he seemed to like the french link Baucher. Of course, once I retired him from dressage and only trail rode him, all the bits went into the tack trunk and I rode him in a halter-bridle or sidepull. *G*



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2004
    Posts
    36

    Default

    After much research, buying and trying several versions of bauchers, I settled on a a myler baucher that has the rolling barrel in the center. The diameter of the mouthpiece is pretty narrow - which is what I was after - and the smooth barrel is not wider than the diameter of the bit at the bars. Good luck.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2005
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy M View Post
    As for "how do you know," my old boy's tongue literally pooched out the sides of his mouth, even when his mouth was quiet and closed. I doubt many cases are that extreme, but it was clearly evident that he needed a relatively thin bit, and he seemed to like the french link Baucher. Of course, once I retired him from dressage and only trail rode him, all the bits went into the tack trunk and I rode him in a halter-bridle or sidepull. *G*
    I have this same thing, well my gelding does . Sort of like the tounge spilling out between his teeth. We recently started concentrating on dressage and have been working in an eggbutt french-link (bean) and he is OK. Hates the flat link, not the Dr B, but the non-angled flat, I think the center part was too wide for him and squished his tounge more. And don't even think of a single joint, he will just stand there and hold his mouth open. His teeth and OK and attended to by a highly competent dentist, just a low palate and big tounge like many TB's.

    Due to my saddle and position it puts me in, it is a bit difficult for me to keep my hands exactly where he would like them to be and we are trying different bits. We tried a baucher last week since our standard non-dressage bit is a mullen pelham. I ride off of the snaffle rein 99% of the time with the pelham so I thought that the baucher may be the perfect bit to offer him the similar feel to what he is most happy in. It is working lovely for us. I have not decided whether the french link or the mullen is the best due to his fat tounge and low palate but the stability of the bit is working for us.

    When I tried a full bridle on him, which would give me the more specific aids he looked like he was a chipmunk with his mouth stuffed with nuts, comical for me but not comfortable for him



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    Velvet, I was using a dr b for my boy with same anatomical challenges, and he's doing great in a myler French link loose ring. Just buy 1/4" smaller than you normally would.
    Nope. Was trying a bradoon that was a french link with the bean and he loathed it. (I always try the bradoon sepearately before putting it together with a curb. Custom bits are the only way to go in that situation. Especially when there's so little room a double is pushing the horse pretty much to or past their limit for space in the mouth.)
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy M View Post

    As for "how do you know," my old boy's tongue literally pooched out the sides of his mouth, even when his mouth was quiet and closed. I doubt many cases are that extreme, but it was clearly evident that he needed a relatively thin bit, and he seemed to like the french link Baucher.
    Um, I don't think it's as rare as you seem to believe!
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    Um, I don't think it's as rare as you seem to believe!
    You're probably right. It just seemed more noticeable to me with old Erik, who had a noticeably shallow mouth (unlike my previous two (Foundation type) Apps - the TB influence?), and it just seemed more obvious that the tongue pooched out. The minute I put Erik in the Baucher he became much steadier in the bridle - almost heaved a big sigh of relief as he dropped his head! LOL Dear Erik. Much missed (especially when I'm on trail rides and Mr. Mark is a-dancin' and a'prancin' Grrrrr!)

    Old Thunderblazer (all 16.3 of Foundation line Appy) had a loooong mouth - you could put just about any bit on him - it was all the same in his mind - he hated dressage regardless. He did accept a Dr. Bristol pretty well though. I used a standard french link eggbutt on him for dressage and the Dr. Bristol cross-county. Put a double bridle on him, and you could do pirouettes. Too bad you can't use a double at 1st level!! ROFLOL


    Confetti's Magic Marker ("Mark") April 10, 2004 and still being a (talented) butt at age 7
    Viking Grog ("Erik") March 1986 - February 2010.
    Chico Joe B 1963 - 1988



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