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  1. #1
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    Default Help me find a 5.5" Western Bit

    All you CotH shoppers with large horses... I would like to work my Saddlebred western this winter and get him used to a curb bit. Problem is, he has a wide head.

    I'm looking for a jointed mouth curb like this http://www.chicksaddlery.com/page/CDS/PROD/255126
    in a 5.5" mouthpiece. Any ideas?

    If I can't find one, I'll just go with a pelham, but I would prefer something I could actually show in if I wanted to.
    The more perfect our happiness,
    the more nagging and wretched
    do our unsolved problems seem.
    ~ Gordon Grand



  2. #2
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    Not a copper mouth, but it comes in 5.5: http://www.adamshorsesupply.com/brow...le/4,2090.html

    I thought they would be easier to find... Try looking into bits for draft horses.
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  3. #3
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    Ah, an option! Thanks. Valley Vet had an Argentine snaffle too. I tried draft sites, but they seem to be 6" or 6.5".

    Darn wide head. I measured everything again last week. I now only have two bits in my whole collection that fit him. One D and a full cheek waterford.

    I am also going to spring for a weymouth and bradoon, but thought it would be fun to jog around all winter. Maybe not so much. I mean, it will still be fun, but little chance of showing without regulation equipment, and more fun with a goal in mind.
    The more perfect our happiness,
    the more nagging and wretched
    do our unsolved problems seem.
    ~ Gordon Grand



  4. #4
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    Default

    I am pretty sure some of the western Myler bits come in a 5.5. Libertyville Saddle Shop used to carry 5.5 bits, but I think they went out of business.



  5. #5
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    I have been have the same issue finding a true 5.5 in bit. I have one now but have been lookinh for another 5.5 grazing bit. I have bought two so far off Ebay one with manufacture tags that said it was 5.5 but it appears they are measuring from outside to outside. Will probably have to find one in person and physically measure.



  6. #6
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    Jun. 26, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post
    All you CotH shoppers with large horses... I would like to work my Saddlebred western this winter and get him used to a curb bit. Problem is, he has a wide head.

    I'm looking for a jointed mouth curb like this http://www.chicksaddlery.com/page/CDS/PROD/255126
    in a 5.5" mouthpiece. Any ideas?

    If I can't find one, I'll just go with a pelham, but I would prefer something I could actually show in if I wanted to.
    I'm confused, are you just looking for a mouthpiece like that, or a whole bit like that? Because you cant show in a bit like what you posted.

    Also, when he's ready to learn to wear a curb (which really shouldn't happen till after he knows how to be a western horse in a snaffle gaits, speed, collection, and steering) I would not recommend a broken mouthpiece like that. If you want a good bit to use to introduce a western horse to a curb; a low port or a Billy Allen would be best.

    If you're just looking to jog around and have fun, I'd stick to whatever bit you are already working him in, it'd be easier for you and less confusing for him. You can still teach him to be a western horse, without rushing him into a curb.

    ETA: I just measured my Vogt's show bit and it has a 5.5" mouthpiece, measured from inside edge to inside edge (actually like 5.75" to be really exact). It's the Billy Allen (second one down on the left) in this picture: http://www.4showhorsetack.com/produc...roducts_id=816 I realize the show bit is a weebit expensive for something you're not definitely showing in LOL, but atleast they're out there.

    I measured my Billy Allen show bit because it happens to be sitting on a shelf in my desk. I have a work Billy Allen in the barn I could measure, along with some other western curbs (I think, we really only ever use the Billy Allens or the low port show curb on all our western horses!). If you're interested, if any of them are big enough, I could lend something to you, see how your horse likes it.
    Last edited by wstrngrl; Dec. 27, 2011 at 06:05 PM.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wstrngrl View Post
    I'm confused, are you just looking for a mouthpiece like that, or a whole bit like that? Because you cant show in a bit like what you posted.
    Where are you showing that a bit like that isn't allowed? Used to see lots of them in the show ring at one time, not so much now, but definitely not an against the rules bit anywhere I've shown. Maybe not very trendy, but I don't think they are illegal by AQHA type rules anyway.

    To stay on topic, to the OP, sorry no ideas. I've been blessed with standard sized horse mouths. Good luck in your search!
    ~~Some days are a total waste of makeup.~~



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvanrens View Post
    Where are you showing that a bit like that isn't allowed? Used to see lots of them in the show ring at one time, not so much now, but definitely not an against the rules bit anywhere I've shown. Maybe not very trendy, but I don't think they are illegal by AQHA type rules anyway.

    To stay on topic, to the OP, sorry no ideas. I've been blessed with standard sized horse mouths. Good luck in your search!

    I imagine AQHA western rules and USEF western rules vary abit :P I'd have to double check my rule book, but I'm pretty sure pelhams aren't allowed, only curbs (no second ring by the mouthpiece)

    SmartAlex - I'm currently checking all my tack sites, not having much luck on the 5.5" broken mouthpieces



  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    I would like to try a 5.5" Billy Allen. I finished my QH in one years ago and it has been my western bit of choice though my horse isn't really big on three piece mouth pieces. He prefers a single joint to any french links etc. I loaned the Billy Allen I had, but I think it was only a 5" anyway. I've also ben looking at regular grazing bits but haven't found a 5.5" in a low/medium port (heck ANY port) either.

    He already jogs and lopes nicely in a dee ring snaffle, and neckreins well indoors (not so much outdoors but he's getting better). Coming 9 next month, he is ready to advance to a curb, and as I intend to show him side saddle, I am planning on moving up to a double bridle.

    I don't really like pelhams, and believe more in going all the way to a double. I just used the pelham to get him used to the curb chain when I could still drop a rein and revert to the snaffle. He now goes fine in a mullen mouth pelham, but has out grown the two I have. I was using the 5 1/4 this spring and it was getting too narrow plus it is a wide rubber mouth and he prefers the slim metal mullen to the fat rubber mullen anyway. My slim metal mullen, unfortunately, is only 5" and he has been out of that one for almost 2 years.

    He has never gotten comfortable in a double and now I don't have a set to fit him. My plan was to work on the double bridle this winter, but he has been working so nicely western I thought I might try a curb over the winter and move on to the double in the spring. With this bit http://www.chicksaddlery.com/page/CDS/PROD/255126 I could start with the rein on the snaffle ring then move on to the shank. I don't see anything in the rules that disqualifies that type of bit, but of course I could be missing something.

    So that's where I'm at. Want to move on, but still exploring my options at that width.
    The more perfect our happiness,
    the more nagging and wretched
    do our unsolved problems seem.
    ~ Gordon Grand



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyDes View Post
    Gags are on the prohibited list, and he doesn't need any additional poll pressure, but thanks for the link. Maybe they have something else in our size.
    The more perfect our happiness,
    the more nagging and wretched
    do our unsolved problems seem.
    ~ Gordon Grand



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wstrngrl View Post
    I imagine AQHA western rules and USEF western rules vary abit :P I'd have to double check my rule book, but I'm pretty sure pelhams aren't allowed, only curbs (no second ring by the mouthpiece)
    I'm going by the Saddlebred rules, in USEF:

    There shall be no discrimination against any standard Western bit. A standard Western bit is defined as having a shank with a maximum length overall of 8 1/2”. The mouthpiece will consist of a metal bar 5/16” to 3/4” in diameter as measured one inch in from the shank.
    The bars may be inlaid but must be smooth or latex wrapped. Nothing may protrude below the mouthpiece (bar) such as extensions, prongs or rivets designed to intimidate the horse. Rollers attached to the center of the bit are acceptable, and may extend below the bar. Jointed mouthpieces are acceptable and may consist of two or three pieces and may have one or two
    joints. A three-piece mouthpiece may include a connecting ring of 1 1/4” or less in diameter or a connecting flat bar of 3/8” to 3/4” (measured top to bottom with a maximum length of 2”),
    which lies flat in the mouth, or a roller or port as described herein. The port must be no higher than 3 1/2” maximum with roller(s) and covers acceptable. Jointed mouthpieces, half-breeds and spade bits are standard. Slip or gag bits, rigid donut mouthpieces and flat polo mouthpieces
    are prohibited. Roping bits with both reins connected to a single rein at center of cross bar shall not be used. Reins must be attached to each shank. Any rein design or other device which increases the effective length and thereby the leverage of the shank of a standard western bit is prohibited. Anything that alters the intended use of the equipment as provided for in
    the description of appointments for a given class is considered to be an artificial appliance.


    I don't think too many people would consider the bit I'm looking for as a pelham, but granted, there are often people who want to get nit picky. At the level I would be at, it wouldn't matter much to me to hand back a $2 ribbon but people aren't often excused for foggy rules.
    The more perfect our happiness,
    the more nagging and wretched
    do our unsolved problems seem.
    ~ Gordon Grand



  13. #13
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    Sounds good SmartAlex!

    I wouldn't worry too much about him not liking 3-piece mouthpieces in snaffles, curbs work very differently in a horse's mouth than snaffles do (I don't mind single jointed snaffles, but hate the same mouthpiece in a curb because of the difference in the way they act). Not saying that he will like a Billy Allen, just that, well, you won't really know till you try LOL but I'm sure you already know that!

    Also, introducing him to a curb for western is different than for double bridles. Though, if he learns the western first, then the double he'd probably be fine; but the other way around there is a huge difference.

    If he likes a mullen pelham, and a single joint snaffle; maybe he'd like a mullen curb and a single joint bridoon? Or have you tried that? I'll measure my mullen curbs (saddle seat) and see how big those are too, if you'd like.

    Are you showing saddle seat sidesaddle or hunt? (LOL, guess I should know that first before thinking about bits for a double hah) I have a mullen pelhem, saddle seat style, somewhere (my horse doesn't like a double much either, which is why I bought it, then never used it), ...



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post
    I don't think too many people would consider the bit I'm looking for as a pelham, but granted, there are often people who want to get nit picky. At the level I would be at, it wouldn't matter much to me to hand back a $2 ribbon but people aren't often excused for foggy rules.
    A pelham is exactly what I thought it was when I looked at it. And since you can only see what a bit is by the shanks, I think alot of people would cry foul; because it's not a curb. Atleast at a Saddlebred show.

    But if that's what you can find that works, and you don't care if you get DQ'd for it, I say go for it! I just tend to be a stickler for the rules at this point (before you get set on a piece of equipment and go a show), because I got DQ'd a St. Louis years ago for having illegal equipment that we didn't know was illegal (latex wrapped curb chain). Showed most of the season with it like that, then at THE most important show got DQ'd; it was devastating. And since then I've been very careful of knowing the rules and trying to interpret them the way others might LOL



  15. #15
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    I have a horse that needs 6 inch- and when he was growing and only needed 5.5 I did find same at drafttack.com.

    They have a pretty wide selection in 5.5 including similar to what you have in your first post.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wstrngrl View Post
    A pelham is exactly what I thought it was when I looked at it. And since you can only see what a bit is by the shanks, I think alot of people would cry foul; because it's not a curb. Atleast at a Saddlebred show.
    But a curb, by definition, is a bit with shanks. Jointed or solid mouthpiece. And that training bit would give me a snaffle option, albeit in baucher form. It's really immaterial as I can't find one anyway.

    As for side saddle... hunt seat style. Our local show actually offers a special class so I wouldn't be showing against hunt or saddle per se. Dover sells an inexpensive 5.5" weymouth so I'm good with that.
    Last edited by SmartAlex; Dec. 28, 2011 at 09:49 AM.
    The more perfect our happiness,
    the more nagging and wretched
    do our unsolved problems seem.
    ~ Gordon Grand



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverley View Post
    I have a horse that needs 6 inch- and when he was growing and only needed 5.5 I did find same at drafttack.com.

    They have a pretty wide selection in 5.5 including similar to what you have in your first post.
    Yes they do have a Tom Thumb that might work, although I've never met one that I thought was balanced right. The picture on the site looks promising. They also have a grazing bit, but I'm still hesitating on that.

    **sigh* I have several bits I trust and like, and I can't seem to duplicate any of them in the correct size.
    The more perfect our happiness,
    the more nagging and wretched
    do our unsolved problems seem.
    ~ Gordon Grand



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post
    Yes they do have a Tom Thumb that might work, although I've never met one that I thought was balanced right. The picture on the site looks promising. They also have a grazing bit, but I'm still hesitating on that.

    **sigh* I have several bits I trust and like, and I can't seem to duplicate any of them in the correct size.
    Take a picture of one you like and send it to drafttack- they might be able to help you track one down.



  19. #19
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    I did just notice your post about a metal mullen mouth pelham- those they have in 5.5 if you elect to go that route.



  20. #20
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    Rod's sells one kind of like this. It's more expensive than the Toklat bit linked to above, but it also claims to be adjustable anywhere from 4.75" to 5.5".
    http://www.rods.com/Adjustable-Training-Bit,21429.html
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