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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2011
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    Default Good supplement for arthritis for a horse still in work + injections ??

    My 15 year old ottb has been on and off. We injected his lower hocks with steroids and have him on bute. I asked about a good supplement to keep him on so he stays fluid. She mentioned adequan and pentosan shots but both were a bit pricey. Is there a good oral supplement though vet says they don't work as well...I can put him on? He is typical tb so i was thinking smart flex senior or actiflex senior since he could use a weight builder to help. Let me know your guys opinions lol thanks!!

    Also has anyone here done injections before? He was injected with depo and cortisone. He is on bute for 2 weeks as well but tonight was our first hack since the injections. He was still sore - didn't kick while picking feet which was a first but still NQR on the hind end. How long does it take to usually take affect should it be right away. Will call the vet tomorrow just wanted to know peoples experience.



  2. #2
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    Dec. 5, 2005
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    Northern Virginia
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    Default

    Horses can be sore for a few days after injections and it can take a couple of weeks to see the full response to them if they're pretty "bad off" before them. Also, my vet normally uses Hyvisc (I believe) in the hocks when injecting.

    As far as oral supplements go I think your best bet is to try 20,000 mg MSM daily. It's cheap and seems to help my older horses. But honestly what helps them the most is the Pentosan--I get it for $16/dose from Wedgewood Pharmacy. IMHO it's the most bang for you buck.



  3. #3
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    Nov. 2, 2011
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    Default

    pentosan was the other shot she recommended - but it was $200 for the loading shot and $200 for the next 8,
    technically thats $40/month for the horse just seeing if there is an oral supplement out there that could be just as good -

    I am trying Actiflex Senior with added MSM to see if that helps at all



  4. #4
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    Sep. 9, 2008
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    north of the Arctic Circle
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    Default

    If you really want to give your horse the best shot at being sound long-term, the injectibles are the best choice. They may seem more expensive at first, but after you've watched several months of pricey orals get processed into manure with minimal change in soundness, injectibles start to look much cheaper. Your vet has recommended them for a reason.

    I'll echo Herbie and say that, of the oral supplements available, MSM will without a doubt give the most bang for your buck. It affects overall inflammation in the body as well as lubing joints, and for the price you can't go wrong. However it is certainly not going to be enough on its own for most horses that need joint assistance.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2010
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    Southern Maryland
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    I had a good talk with a very knowledgeable equine vet about the whole arthritic hock thing. This was his recommendation. If your horse has reach the stage where his lower hock joints are getting calcified and the cartilage is going then quit spending money on injections and supplements that are attempting to maintain the cartilage in the joints. It's a lost cause (my words) and will just prolong the fusing period. He recommended using pain control (which the steroids do) whether oral or by injections and ride, ride, ride. The exercise will speed up the fusing. I don't thing that steroids delay cartilage loss, they reduce pain by reducing inflamation but they actually damage cartilage over time. So giving Cosequin or an HA supplement and steroid injections are counter productive.

    Some horses fuse relatively quickly, others don't. But many horses who are in this ouchy stage have their exercise scaled back just when they really need the exercise to encourage fusing. It's hard to keep riding an ouchy horse, sometimes you have to quit showing but keep riding!

    chicamuxen



  6. #6
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    Aug. 28, 2007
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    Triangle Area, NC
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    I do a full box of adequan every spring, and daily supplementation with aniflex GL and Vitaflex MSM. Cheapest pricing is at horse dot com. I started off using the aniflex complete, and after 2 years of fantastic results I wanted to see if I could drop down to the GL and keep those results (minus chondroitin) and sure enough still great!
    A COTHER recommended it to me, and I've been so pleased, I'll never use Anything else!
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  7. #7
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nativehiro View Post

    Also has anyone here done injections before? He was injected with depo and cortisone.
    DEPO?????????? might want to recheck that. Usually they do not inject joints on a gelding with something that retards ovulation.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2010
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chicamux View Post
    I had a good talk with a very knowledgeable equine vet about the whole arthritic hock thing. This was his recommendation. If your horse has reach the stage where his lower hock joints are getting calcified and the cartilage is going then quit spending money on injections and supplements that are attempting to maintain the cartilage in the joints. It's a lost cause (my words) and will just prolong the fusing period. He recommended using pain control (which the steroids do) whether oral or by injections and ride, ride, ride. The exercise will speed up the fusing. I don't thing that steroids delay cartilage loss, they reduce pain by reducing inflamation but they actually damage cartilage over time. So giving Cosequin or an HA supplement and steroid injections are counter productive.

    Some horses fuse relatively quickly, others don't. But many horses who are in this ouchy stage have their exercise scaled back just when they really need the exercise to encourage fusing. It's hard to keep riding an ouchy horse, sometimes you have to quit showing but keep riding!

    chicamuxen
    Totally disagree with this. I have seen horses with arthritis stay sound for 10 or more years with regular hock injections. Many horses. To ride a horse that is that painful is not right IMO. If you want the hocks to fuse, turn the horse out for a year or two. Don't keep riding the poor thing. And yes, do the injections so it doesn't get to that point.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Default

    Every horse responds differently to all supplements, so I only know what's worked for my horse. I try to make the most from my budget as well.
    Even though the loading dose is expensive, the maintenance for Pentosan is about $25/month. I did a loading dose of 1x/week for 4 weeks, then went to 1x/month. So one 50ml bottle was enough for loading dose + 4 months maintenance. I can't say enough how much I LOVE it! My horse is a new man with Pentosan
    I also use Actiflex 4000, which is very cheap and I think helps him a lot. I've seen horses on Actiflex 4000 make complete 180s in 2 weeks time. If you buy the Actiflex from BigDee's, they have a special, buy a gallon & get a quart for free. Works out to be $17/month.

    GOOD LUCK!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2011
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    Portland, OR
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    DEPO?????????? might want to recheck that. Usually they do not inject joints on a gelding with something that retards ovulation.

    "Depo" is correct. It's Depo-Medrol, not Depo-Provera. ;-)



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2011
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    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    DEPO?????????? might want to recheck that. Usually they do not inject joints on a gelding with something that retards ovulation.
    you must be thinking of another depo?

    Depo Medrol
    This medication is used to treat joint pain and swelling that occurs with arthritis. This medication may also be used to treat various other conditions such as severe allergic reactions, blood diseases, breathing problems, certain cancers, eye diseases, intestinal disorders, and skin diseases. It decreases your body's natural defensive response and reduces symptoms such as swelling and allergic-type reactions. Methylprednisolone is a corticosteroid hormone (glucocorticoid).



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2010
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    I genuinely believe that my gelding moves better when I give him the basic Cosequin. I am kind of sold on their "bio-availability" argument as well. I would love to upgrade to the ASU version, but with two horses, it is out of my price range. The basic Cosequin formula is very reasonably priced, even at two scoops a day per horse.

    I tried the SmartFlex Maintenance and it seemed like he was stiffer than with the Cosequin. I don't know for sure that he has arthritis. I have recent x-rays of his front legs and his joints looked great. But he is getting older (17) and it does seem like he moves a little more more freely with the Cosequin.

    I am going to try adding some MSM this month and see if I notice any difference.

    If I ever felt the oral supplements were not enough, I would probably go with the Adequan injections.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 8, 2010
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    Default

    Adequan is a good maintenance injection. we also do legend the day before we ship into a show-really makes them feel good.

    with the hock/stifle injections, sometimes depending on the cocktail used, they are only visibly helpful a certain number of times. it depends on the horse too. generally we inject hocks 2-4x/year, if it looks like their changes are getting 'sticky'. but again, if you use these types of injections on a more frequent basis, they will stop working altogether. at least that is what i have found.

    as far as a daily joint supplement, there are so many on the market and everyone has personal perference. i like the cosequin ASU, especially for my older, creaky guys. it is pricey, but it seems to really help them.

    Also, if you are giving a lot of bute he may get ulcers. you might look into a daily dose of previcoxx-much gentler on the stomach.



  14. #14
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    OK, the other Depo, forgive me, my good Hunter was/is a mare who has always been all girl.

    Anyway, to answer OP, injections usually work within a week BUT a horse that has been protecting itself from joint pain for a long period of time may get sore from moving properly for a few days.

    There may be something wrong that is not helped by joint injections-did OP get a full workup including pictures and blocks to identify specific causes?

    The stuff that works for most is pricey, because it does work. But OP can experiment and see, you never know.

    But keep in mind the horse is 15 (at least) and mankind has not found anything to make the aging and gradual deterioration of the body stop completely in horse or human, just buy a little more time.

    You can manage it but there is only so much to be done. This horse may be nearing the end of full usefullness and need to cut back. Also, remember that fised hocks lose a great deal of range of motion-they stop hurting but it does effect the movement of the joint.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2006
    Posts
    7,388

    Default Try this first

    Before you do injections, try this:

    20,000mg MSM daily for a month
    10,000mg MSM daily thereafter

    HorseTech has the purest MSM.

    I've never been a believer in oral supplements, but I have seen it do wonders for several older, creaky TBs.

    And it is cheap!

    After that I'd go with IM Adequan.

    Ditto findeight that you may have to make some lifestyle changes for horse, depending on current usage etc.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2011
    Posts
    158

    Default

    yeah its a bummer... he just had a break through this year too - he raced hard for 5 years then sat for another 6 or so. I adopted him and we did nothing but w/t for a few months. I just started jumping him more recently (nothing over 2 feet) and now this year with getting over "spooky" jumps which is a awesome feeling. Was also planning some hunter paces as well for next year



  17. #17
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    Nov. 7, 2006
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    Lexington, VA
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    Have never injected,and can only add this from our experience - we were just a bit away from putting down our retired adopted TB due to being amost 22 and so arthritic that he could hardly walk out of his stall to turnout if the weather kept him in for a day or two. He was most uncomfortable, and our vet (who is not one for giving supplements) suggested that we try a tub of Recovery EQ Extra Strength (just means it has HA in it). Good thing is, if it is going to work- you will know in a month. We saw dramatic improvement in his mobility and comfort level - he is still going strong today (24 this year) - runs around his pasture with complete comfort. We also have him on a half gram of bute in his breakfast and his dinner, and he is not being ridden, so this certainly may not work for you, but it might be worth a try. Not cheap - cheapest I find it is at Dover . We have a store right here so no shipping, for $89.90 + tax- so about $94.00 for 35 days or so..... but it helped Kenny, so I thought I would mention it.
    Good luck.
    stained glass groupie
    www.equiglas.com



  18. #18
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    Dec. 5, 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eventgroupie2 View Post
    Have never injected,and can only add this from our experience - we were just a bit away from putting down our retired adopted TB due to being amost 22 and so arthritic that he could hardly walk out of his stall to turnout if the weather kept him in for a day or two. He was most uncomfortable, and our vet (who is not one for giving supplements) suggested that we try a tub of Recovery EQ Extra Strength (just means it has HA in it). Good thing is, if it is going to work- you will know in a month. We saw dramatic improvement in his mobility and comfort level - he is still going strong today (24 this year) - runs around his pasture with complete comfort. We also have him on a half gram of bute in his breakfast and his dinner, and he is not being ridden, so this certainly may not work for you, but it might be worth a try. Not cheap - cheapest I find it is at Dover . We have a store right here so no shipping, for $89.90 + tax- so about $94.00 for 35 days or so..... but it helped Kenny, so I thought I would mention it.
    Good luck.
    Did you start the bute at the same time as the Recovery EQ? Has he ever been on just that? I have a pony that needs daily anti-inflamatories for a variety of issues and have heard good things about this product. Would love to replace the NSAID if possible.



  19. #19
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    Nov. 7, 2006
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    Lexington, VA
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    We were using aspirin twice a day before our vet recommended the Recovery EQ + HA. She suggested that we add half a 1 gram bute tab to each meal with some soaked alfalfa cubes to counteract the acidity of the bute to prevent stomach problems. He has been on this regimen for several years without a problem, and is definitely more active and much more comfortable than before the Recovery. One thing I liked was that we saw improvement in his mobility within two weeks of starting the Recovery. I seriously doubt that his improvement was due to the Bute, since we had him on heavy aspirin doses before we started the Bute tabs. I really have to attribute the improvement to the Recovery.
    stained glass groupie
    www.equiglas.com



  20. #20
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    Mar. 10, 2003
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    Massachusetts, USA
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    I've found MSM and Turmeric (spice/herb) to be successful.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



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