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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2009
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    1,008

    Default Yet another TB pedigree reading wanted...

    Anyone have any insight to offer on this girl, based just on her pedigree? My plan would be just as a riding horse, low hunters and maybe some low level dressage, though because of her body type, some might think to use her for breeding, so insight into that would be welcome as well.

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/zats+charlotte+web



  2. #2
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    Jul. 31, 2009
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Default

    Bumping. I'm surprised that not one person has taken a stab at this. Usually such an opinionated group....



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
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    1,842

    Default

    Well, I can tell what I do and that can help anyone looking at their own pedigrees. There are some ancestors I rate higher than others but these are the ones I note in this pedigree.
    I run the great grand parents.
    Mr Prospector(MP)...I bring him up and find...Discovery and Teddy. Man o War is on some peoples lists but I like Man o War for his Rock Sand and in this case he is off the page (am trying to not go back too far). Seperately, Raise a Native(RAN) is found in sport pedigrees of eventers. He is very common in general so you would expect that and conversely for as common as MP is you would expect to see him more so there is something about him that takes him off the list of sport horse producers. I am guessing that in RANs case the strength of sport pedigree comes from his dam side. Gold Digger is MPs dam and she is quite nice as well. Nasrullah is Nearco and Blenheim(who is a golden boy in sport pedigrees with Blandford and Malva), Sequence with Count Fleet (to Sundridge, Stephan the Great and Rock Sand) and the great mare Miss Dogwood (Bull Dog, Myrtlewood). The usual suspects of sport pedigree here are Teddy and then Ajax from multiple sources, Sundridge, Rock Sand, Blue Larkspur, Nasrullah, Blandford, Roi Herode, Phalaris, Rabelais but these guys are from before 1920 for the most part but they yend to still be in sport pedigrees in abundance. Maybe like keystones.

    Youthful Lady is next. You see again the horses that are positives in MPs pedigree. Bull Dog(Teddy), Nasrullah, and Discovery but also add Turn-to, Sir Gallahad, Princequillo . Ack-Ack is positive in sport. His dam side Fast Turn is especially strong. Turn-To is well known for sport (also very common in TB pedigrees in general). Turn-To is Royal Charger and Source Sucree both stars in their own right and her dam is Cherokee Rose...Princequillo and The Squaw. Princequillo's sire Prince Rose to Rose Prince are good to see seperately as well. The Squaw is Sickle(Phalaris) and Blandford and to Sundridge. in traditional warmblood nomonclature Sickle, Blandford, Buchan all very good.
    Dark Star to Royal Gem is similar to pedigrees found in German sport pedigrees...with Irish and British TBs...Dhoti to Solario to Gainsborough to Bay Ronald. Dhoti is from a Son-In-Law mare...Son-In-Law is to Bay Ronald as well. Dark Stars dam is Isolde a daughter of Bull Dog to Teddy to Ajax to Flying Fox all good to see seperately as well. I mention also Plucky Leige who is the dam of Bull Dog(Teddy) and Admiral Drake(Craig An Ern to Sundridge)and Bois Rousell(Vatout) and Sir Gallahad(Teddy) and Marguerite de Valois(Teddy) and while I wouldn't single out her sire Spearmint perhaps St Simon gets the credit. She is a BLUE Hen for sure. She is one of the most important thoroughbred mares of the 20th Century for both racing and sport. Belle Angevine is French breeding and I expect to find strong sport horse influence when I see French breeding. Here again we have Plucky Leige through Admiral Drake, Vatout is another French sport line, then a British line for sport through Hurry On. L'Amiral is loaded. By Admiral Drake out of Hurrylor by Vatellor(Vatout x Teddy) out of Hurry Off (Hurry On x Bayardo)

    TV Commercial brings TV Lark whos contributions are shared with those before and then the new Alibhai(Hyperion, Gainsborough, Bayardo, Bay Ronald) and Rock Sand on the dam side. Boudoir brings Mahmoud (Blenheim, Gainsborough, The Teterach(Roi Herode), Sundridge)

    Foxy GJ carries on Hyperion, Sir Gallahad, Bull Dog, Blenheim

    Danzig is one of the sport producing sons or Northern Dancer(ND)...not all of them are. Again like MP there is no reason by pedigree that ND shouldn't produce sport horses but because his sport offspring are not generally found on sport lists there is something about him that can be a sport dud. He is to Phalaris(another who might be sport or might not...the ND of his time), Hyperion Rock Sand. Danzigs dam sire is Admirals Voyage a son of the good Crafty Admiral(to Sir Gallahad, War Admiral) out of an Olympia(to Hyperion) daughter, that might be his sport chops.

    Come My Prince by the sport sire Prince John(Princequillo, Count Fleet, Blue Larkspur) with as good a sport dam side Come Hither Look (Turn-To, Mahmoud, Sir Gallahad)

    Stonewalk brings in Round Table via Knightly Manner. Round Table was a tough son of Princequillo and toughness is often why racing and sport are happy to see him as modern TBs are pretty fragile. So he does have sport chops via Princequillo but he was a tough handicapper as well as was his son Knightly Manner and Stonewalk. Knightly Manner is Nasrullah, Hyperion, Buchan...all good. Stonewalks dam is to Double Jay another preferred by sport stallion. He is a son of balladier and I think Balladier shows up too often to be coincidence in sport pedigrees.

    Finally in Surfing we have Nasrullah and Bahram a good son of Blandford, Dark Legend to Bay Ronald, Sir Gallahad, and Blue Larkspur. Viney has got me looking at the bottom line she goes to Family number Two so that is where her female line X chromosome came from. at about 1800 I look for Buzzard daughters nice to see if they go back to Herod but I do believe the mare sides of all the horses are very if not the most important for sport but we have the male side bias. There you go go on a slow Sunday. PatO



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