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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2003
    Location
    Dickerson, MD 20842
    Posts
    381

    Default

    In some fairness to the breed show managers and trying to manage the times:

    It ALWAYS rains at DAD. In 2011 we pulled into the parking lot JUST as a HUGE T-storm rolled over the show grounds during the breed show. Should people and horses be expected to be in the ring in that type of weather? When the rain ended, we went into the show grounds, the ring had so much water on it, I would not want my babies running in that. But 1/2 hr later, ring was VERY usable so the show could proceed. What does DAD do with the weather?

    2010 (even though I wasn't at DAD but was at WEG and left hubby home to care for my horses so I remember the weather well for that area), there was so much water falling on the east coast, flooding was the norm. What does DAD do with that?

    The other things they can control, yes, it does sound like they need a better clue.

    But for timing of the rings during the breed show (unless there are T-storms with lightening, riders have to ride), how does DAD control the weather?



  2. #102
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,813

    Default

    Oh PLEASE Gailbyrd - no one can control the weather. This isn't about weather. And by the way - in the Performance Division they don't stop the rides for rain. And therefore they shouldn't for Breeding classes. If there is lightening and thunder - ABSOLUTELY they stop the show.

    And the footing in the rings has now been replaced and the drainage problems in the past have been alleviated significantly.

    I have to believe you babies run around outside in the rain at home! Ours do and in some instances it actually makes them move out with bigger strides!!
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  3. #103
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 2006
    Location
    north of the equator
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gailbyrd View Post
    In some fairness to the breed show managers and trying to manage the times:

    It ALWAYS rains at DAD. In 2011 we pulled into the parking lot JUST as a HUGE T-storm rolled over the show grounds during the breed show. Should people and horses be expected to be in the ring in that type of weather? When the rain ended, we went into the show grounds, the ring had so much water on it, I would not want my babies running in that. But 1/2 hr later, ring was VERY usable so the show could proceed. What does DAD do with the weather?

    2010 (even though I wasn't at DAD but was at WEG and left hubby home to care for my horses so I remember the weather well for that area), there was so much water falling on the east coast, flooding was the norm. What does DAD do with that?

    The other things they can control, yes, it does sound like they need a better clue.

    But for timing of the rings during the breed show (unless there are T-storms with lightening, riders have to ride), how does DAD control the weather?
    Did I miss a post? Who the H E double hockey sticks is talking about rains and flooding within the context of this thread? Despite the DAD'ers believing their own hype even they realize they can't control the heavens - nor does anyone on this thread expect them too. Yes, we get the message that good footing drains better than lousy footing. It still costs money to measure up to FEI standards of competition. That and the lack of a beneficiary is the context of this thread. In summary, the prior posts all point to push coming to shove in the Land of the Lost a.k.a. DAD management.



  4. #104
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 2006
    Location
    north of the equator
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    When I think about my personal involvement with DAD - the old saying "A cat that sits on a hot stove won't sit on a hot stove again but he probably won't sit on a cold one either".
    When Rachel Ehrlich and I started the Born in the USA awards we both put in money and I donated an embroidered cooler. All I asked was to be informed as to when the award ceremony was so I could plan to drive over (from my farm in NJ). Likewise I donated very expensive embroidered coolers for the North American Breeders Futurity year after year. Same request. I was only able to be at ONE of the BITUSA (the first). And ONE of the NABF. WHY YOU ASK? Well Brian O'Connor apparantely has the unique ability as Announcer to change the schedule on a minutes notice for these events. And Melanie Sloyer and Lori Kaminski just kept "forgetting" to let me know about the changes.
    One of the things that successful show ventures KNOW and UNDERSTAND is to keep your SPONSORS informed. DAD has not only failed at this - it gets worse every year.
    I am also a Box Holder at DAD and upgraded my level to have a reserved parking space as I drive back and forth. Well 90% of the time someone else was parked in my space. Several times the car was owned by someone on the Committee - who just felt they were "special" (and who didn't pay a dime for parking!) Trying to find anyone to fix this problem ended up being so time consuming and resulted in NO CHANGE in the situation.
    The Box HOlders Party was always a very nice event with people dressing up a bit and a great get together to talk with other breeders, owners, etc. For the last two years I purchased extra tickets for clients and friends only to arrive to find either very little food or as in 2011 - NO FOOD LEFT one hour into the event. The event has now become a Food Feast for people who come in and load up plates of food and take them to friends waiting outside. I won't go anymore. Why be totally embarassed taking people there when there's no food left?! And now most of the people are not dressed up anymore so there's nothing "special" about it. The money from the Boxholders is a solid source of income for the show but the Hospitality is gone from DAD.
    As far as having enough volunteers - well I know I'm not the only person who has been treated like some "red headed stepchild at a family reunion". The Breed Show was just plain ridiculous last year with changing rings, times, etc. We had one 3 yo mare who was tacked up and warmed up 4 times and then untacked 4 times because the Show Manager kept changing everything. It was a complete mess.
    STOP CHANGING THE TIMES to keep whomever it is that they do this for happy!! I was told well they don't want down time in the rings. HELLO - I'M A FINANCIAL PERSON - THAT'S WHEN YOUR ATTENDEES SPEND MONEY AT THE VENDOR TENTS!!!! How stupid are these organizers?

    Horse Shows are a business and they should be run like a business.

    So going back to my original comment - this Cat doesn't sit on the stove anymore. I continue to be a Box holder, I don't buy a parking space, I don't donate money or coolers and I certainly won't donate for the footing.
    As far as the food and hospitality go, one only has to look as far as the Queen of the Lemon Squares to see why the situation exists. Tacky is as tacky does



  5. #105
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2006
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    When I think about my personal involvement with DAD - the old saying "A cat that sits on a hot stove won't sit on a hot stove again but he probably won't sit on a cold one either".
    When Rachel Ehrlich and I started the Born in the USA awards we both put in money and I donated an embroidered cooler. All I asked was to be informed as to when the award ceremony was so I could plan to drive over (from my farm in NJ). Likewise I donated very expensive embroidered coolers for the North American Breeders Futurity year after year. Same request. I was only able to be at ONE of the BITUSA (the first). And ONE of the NABF. WHY YOU ASK? Well Brian O'Connor apparantely has the unique ability as Announcer to change the schedule on a minutes notice for these events. And Melanie Sloyer and Lori Kaminski just kept "forgetting" to let me know about the changes.
    One of the things that successful show ventures KNOW and UNDERSTAND is to keep your SPONSORS informed. DAD has not only failed at this - it gets worse every year.
    I am also a Box Holder at DAD and upgraded my level to have a reserved parking space as I drive back and forth. Well 90% of the time someone else was parked in my space. Several times the car was owned by someone on the Committee - who just felt they were "special" (and who didn't pay a dime for parking!) Trying to find anyone to fix this problem ended up being so time consuming and resulted in NO CHANGE in the situation.
    The Box HOlders Party was always a very nice event with people dressing up a bit and a great get together to talk with other breeders, owners, etc. For the last two years I purchased extra tickets for clients and friends only to arrive to find either very little food or as in 2011 - NO FOOD LEFT one hour into the event. The event has now become a Food Feast for people who come in and load up plates of food and take them to friends waiting outside. I won't go anymore. Why be totally embarassed taking people there when there's no food left?! And now most of the people are not dressed up anymore so there's nothing "special" about it. The money from the Boxholders is a solid source of income for the show but the Hospitality is gone from DAD.
    As far as having enough volunteers - well I know I'm not the only person who has been treated like some "red headed stepchild at a family reunion". The Breed Show was just plain ridiculous last year with changing rings, times, etc. We had one 3 yo mare who was tacked up and warmed up 4 times and then untacked 4 times because the Show Manager kept changing everything. It was a complete mess.
    STOP CHANGING THE TIMES to keep whomever it is that they do this for happy!! I was told well they don't want down time in the rings. HELLO - I'M A FINANCIAL PERSON - THAT'S WHEN YOUR ATTENDEES SPEND MONEY AT THE VENDOR TENTS!!!! How stupid are these organizers?

    Horse Shows are a business and they should be run like a business.

    So going back to my original comment - this Cat doesn't sit on the stove anymore. I continue to be a Box holder, I don't buy a parking space, I don't donate money or coolers and I certainly won't donate for the footing.

    Ise-I tried to run my little area of the show as a business. After bring in quite a bit of new money, my reward was to been given my walking papers (behind my back- everyone knew but me) because I stepped on the toes of people, who were friends with the cool kids at the top.

    If a business is not run with faithful honestly for all & attention to financial responsiblities, then the business will collapse. Horse shows included. Escaping to professional mgmt was nothing more than a band-aid over the gaping wound.



  6. #106
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2009
    Posts
    48

    Default A clue

    Whoever mentioned that the announcer has had a (heavy) hand in the pace of the show hit the nail on the head! Say what you like about how great BO'C is, he has ALWAYS tried to control the show schedule. This has been going on for years; and unless show management lays down the law with him, he will continue to try and run the show according to his idea of what the schedule should be. It happens all over and just because show management thinks he knows "best", due to his experience, it doesn't mean that his idea is the best for the show.
    Set a schedule and stick to it!!! The last thing you want to do is upset your competitors! Without them, there is no show!!!



  7. #107
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,813

    Default

    THANK YOU PUDDTAT~~

    Everyone with horses KNOWS that shows can have slight time changes for various reasons but what's going on with the Announcer calling the shots is hideous. And last year they would change rings and class times and award ceremonies and then - THE LIGHT BULB WENT ON IN SOMEONE'S HEAD - DUH - judges have to be in the ring for the award ceremony and they can't be there if you've just sent them to another ring to judge a class.

    STICK WITH THE SCHEDULE. And if people aren't at the gate with their horses at class time - that's too bad for them. CALL THE CLASS. Who are these Prima Donna's that management keeps trying to please all the time?

    At least with a SCHEDULE - people can plan to eat, shop or just use the bathroom facilities and not miss something they wanted to see!!! HELLO MANAGEMENT - that's why many people come to the show - to SPECTATE.

    Lori and Melanie and the rest of crowd - I do hope you are reading this. And Kathy Moffit needs to understand that the people who pay to be there - pay her salary.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2003
    Location
    Dickerson, MD 20842
    Posts
    381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    Oh PLEASE Gailbyrd - no one can control the weather. This isn't about weather. And by the way - in the Performance Division they don't stop the rides for rain. And therefore they shouldn't for Breeding classes. If there is lightening and thunder - ABSOLUTELY they stop the show.

    And the footing in the rings has now been replaced and the drainage problems in the past have been alleviated significantly.

    I have to believe you babies run around outside in the rain at home! Ours do and in some instances it actually makes them move out with bigger strides!!
    That's what I said, in the performance classes, unless there is lightening, riders have to ride.

    In the breed classes, it appears they stop the classes. If they stop the classes, they have to make up time. If they have to make up time, they have to move things around.

    Don't know if the order of things got moved around in 2010 or 2011 (the years some posts were about) but in my limited experience with breed shows, you may be able to know if your class will be in the morning or in the afternoon but as to time? That appears to be a crap shoot. Order of go seems to stay on the schedule but time? Don't recall ever seeing times listed. Just order of go.



  9. #109
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2009
    Posts
    48

    Default Posted Schedule

    I seem to recall a 'Tentative Schedule' being posted a few days before the show; and it had the classes listed in the order in which they would occur. No times given; in a breed show I think that's the only way you can go, due to the size of the class, the speed of judging, etc. But, and it's a BIG BUT, you CAN adhere to that schedule if you have management that cares about it's exhibitors! Work out the weather delays at the end of the day, so everyone knows that, and can plan accordingly.
    Of course, the management has been doing this show for a long time, and rightfully, has a lot of experience, (another BIG) BUT, seems to have lost sight of the feelings of the competitors.
    I can only imagine how hard it must be to get young horses ready, mares ready, get everyone in place, and then find out things have changed! Unacceptable, as someone said.



  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,813

    Default

    Well as I said we had a 3 yo mare and for the 3 yo mares U/S class she was tacked up and warmed up 3 times and then untacked those 3 times before the 4th time which was when they finally figured out if/when the class was going and which ring. She did very well in class - but the confusion, inability to find out what was going on and the fact this went on for over an hour or more is hideous.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  11. #111
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2006
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Years ago, the warm up steward would keep the next 2-3 horses near the gate, the gate stewards kept the flow & horses went on time. There is no reason why a horse, esp a 3yr old, should be tacked & untacked 3 x's. Wonder what has changed? I can only blame so much on O'C in the booth.

    Any idea why the old, steady vendors are not returning? We has such a diverse festival that even non-horse people would show up to shop!



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