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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    18,992

    Default Spin-off from boarding gaffuffle in H/J: "With boarders like you, who needs enemies?"

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...=1#post6009630

    That's the inspiration thread.

    Note the:

    1) Pile on.

    2) The "OMG, move your horse yesterday!" (We'll watch from a safe distance).

    3) No question about what other boarding options are around for the OP.

    4) No question about whether or not the horses at the place looked good, fencing looked good, feed looked good, etc.

    Many questions about whether or not a BO (who, I'll grant, was an idiot to treat her brand spankin' new customer as she did) would go from bad to worse... and how much worse... and how fast.

    Other important questions: What kind of person would hang out at a Tim Horton's? What can you infer about a person who lounged around a Dunkin' Donuts/Denny's cross or claimed to?

    5) Insistence that the HO not speak to other boarders about any of this, even the gentle questions about things like "Do these sudden rate changes happen often?" so that she can see if she has over-reacted to the initial problem.

    The fear is.....wait for it.... BARN GOSSIP AND A BO WHO WOULD BE PISSED AND SUMMARILY KICK OUT THE NEW HO OR TREAT THE HORSE VERY, VERY BADLY ON THE WAY OUT.

    Dudes. The discussions that start as the OP's did and end as that thread is cooking along is precisely what boarders do to make BO's as crazy as y'all claim.

    I'm sure their are BOs who have taken their anger at boarders out on horses in their care. But most do not and would not. I'd also like to believe that most boarders wouldn't really be as incendiary as you guys sound. But what is up with the advice there? You are scaring me, friends.

    Finally to my question:

    Can you explain? Don't give me the story about the "It totally went to Defcon 4 in 48 hours" situation you encountered once (and never, ever saw coming). I'll believe that each of you has one of these. Do tell me whether or not you'd be so quick to take the "Leave!" advice if you were the OP and had researched the barn as well as you knew how, or were there in person and knew the area. IME, most areas don't give obvious options of "hell hole" and "clearly better on all counts."
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    25,985

    Default

    Like your abbreviation for horse owner.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2011
    Location
    Coastal Marsh of Texas
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    1,086

    Default

    This seems complicated...



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
    Location
    Southern Ontario
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    1,725

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...=1#post6009630

    What kind of person would hang out at a Tim Horton's?
    A Canadian. Or a HO.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2008
    Posts
    1,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...=1#post6009630

    That's the inspiration thread.

    Note the:

    1) Pile on.

    2) The "OMG, move your horse yesterday!" (We'll watch from a safe distance).

    3) No question about what other boarding options are around for the OP.

    4) No question about whether or not the horses at the place looked good, fencing looked good, feed looked good, etc.

    Many questions about whether or not a BO (who, I'll grant, was an idiot to treat her brand spankin' new customer as she did) would go from bad to worse... and how much worse... and how fast.

    Other important questions: What kind of person would hang out at a Tim Horton's? What can you infer about a person who lounged around a Dunkin' Donuts/Denny's cross or claimed to?

    5) Insistence that the HO not speak to other boarders about any of this, even the gentle questions about things like "Do these sudden rate changes happen often?" so that she can see if she has over-reacted to the initial problem.

    The fear is.....wait for it.... BARN GOSSIP AND A BO WHO WOULD BE PISSED AND SUMMARILY KICK OUT THE NEW HO OR TREAT THE HORSE VERY, VERY BADLY ON THE WAY OUT.

    Dudes. The discussions that start as the OP's did and end as that thread is cooking along is precisely what boarders do to make BO's as crazy as y'all claim.

    I'm sure their are BOs who have taken their anger at boarders out on horses in their care. But most do not and would not. I'd also like to believe that most boarders wouldn't really be as incendiary as you guys sound. But what is up with the advice there? You are scaring me, friends.

    Finally to my question:

    Can you explain? Don't give me the story about the "It totally went to Defcon 4 in 48 hours" situation you encountered once (and never, ever saw coming). I'll believe that each of you has one of these. Do tell me whether or not you'd be so quick to take the "Leave!" advice if you were the OP and had researched the barn as well as you knew how, or were there in person and knew the area. IME, most areas don't give obvious options of "hell hole" and "clearly better on all counts."
    I'd have left pretty much as soon as the BO arrived. I find that when doing the interview and the first few days that the BO is usually on "impress new client" behaviour. So if her behaviour is that bad already.. not worth it. She can take 2 hours to deliver the horse, I can spend those 2 hrs making phone calls and finding a new barn.. I hate to waste time. Would I speak to the other boarders.. nope. My time is valuable to me (and probably only me, but it is very much so to me) so unless she is taking 2 hours because of an unavoidable emergency (pile up on the highway), and there is a damn good reason that their was no call (cell phone stolen by aliens) then I'd be off like a prom dress. (and no I don't consider a craving for coffee an emergency).
    "Sadly, some people's greatest skill, is being an idiot". (facebook profile pic I saw).



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    9,931

    Default

    First of all I am not sure why this needs its own spin off thread and secondly, maybe I am just completely expecting too much from people but when I jointly exit a place via dual vehicles with the agreed plan to meet at a destination within an agreed time, and the other party suddenly decides to make me wait for over an hour with no communication because they have decided all of a sudden to have the slowest cup of coffee in the universe/a pedicure/a shag in the nearest motel with the hot guy they flirted with out the truck window, that is RIDICULOUS.

    Seriously if they are driving along in full knowledge that someone is waiting for them at their destination and then they just decide to nip into Per Se for a seven course meal "on the way" WTF is that?

    Oh, I knew you were waiting and I didn't communicate at all but I thought I'd take an hour out of my day -and yours!- to drink a leisurely cup of coffee. It's ok, you can wait.
    Even without a three year old horse on the trailer that is nonsense.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2010
    Location
    All 'round Canadia
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    9,898

    Default

    Honestly, in that case I'd be looking to leave too. A craving for Timmie's causing such a long delay on such a short trip? Freaking take your sandwich to go, or come back for it later - it's not like you're driving hundreds of miles here. Doing that with an unknown young horse, while knowing your brand-new boarder is awaiting your imminent arrival? It's like the BO wanted to see how far the boarder could be pushed; that's only other explanation I can think of besides the obvious (she's just that dumb).



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2010
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    5,648

    Default

    Although I agree that in the original thread, the poster should be upset and consider if the BO is really someone she wants to rely on; not just because of the coffee break, but also the subsequent issues with water apparently, but I have seen where clients go over the deep end rather than asking a simple questions.

    Example; boarder wanted to sell or lease her horse. Talked to her (in person) about having a student that was looking for a horse try her horse out to see if she wanted to lease him until we found a more suitable horse to buy, or until horse was sold. Boarder agreed. Student rode horse twice, but wasn't a good match. Boarder number 2 tells boarder number 1 that I was using the horse in lessons behind her back. Boarder number 1 says nothing to me, just tells me she found someone to lease her horse at another barn and leaves...leaving me with a bad cheque for her final payment. Was months before I found out why she felt justified in leaving in that way. Very odd as I we had a good relationship before then, so no idea why she went off the deep end...and it is not as if I went around randomly borrowing boarded horses to use in lessons....and it is not as if she has ever seen me have a problem with people giving notice/leaving before!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2010
    Location
    Earth
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    2,443

    Default

    mvp, I'm curious as to why this bothers you so much. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but it seems as though this means more to you than just the things mentioned on the surface.

    For what its worth, I do think the boarder should leave; actions speak louder than words, and the actions are irresponsible and foolish on the part of the BO. I would not be able to trust someone with my horse that makes such poor choices.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
    W. C. Fields



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Posts
    2,333

    Default

    I would have packed up and left that day, even if it had been back to the old barn. I find everything that BO did completely unacceptable, ESPECIALLY the two-hour coffee break with a trailer-green 3yr old when they were traveling 15 miles. Not. Acceptable. At. All.

    The rest is red flag after red flag, and no I wouldn't bother with talking to other boarders. Even if everyone had nothing but nice to say, my experience was bad enough to move, that day. And BO's like that will push to see what they can get away with, such as not cleaning their stall routinely, or not scrubbing water tanks/buckets, etc. BO gave a horrible first impression, and that's all that matters.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,997

    Default

    Seriously you guys need to go to some of the outstanding Timmies: a 30 min lineup is nothing & they certainly are much more popular than Starbucks in many communities - not to mention that you can drop in on horseback & order your fruit smoothie & sandwich at the drive through.

    Course when we trailer the horses, we stop at the Chevron/White Spot instead as they aren't very busy & have great trailer access.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2009
    Location
    The Great Plains of Canada
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    3,066

    Default

    To me it would not matter if the facility was in pristine condition - of course that would tempt me to stay however the BO's management of the facility trumps the facility's condition and care. I have boarded at several facilities that were in great condition however management was lacking - this tends to affect a number of areas that can negatively impact your horse.

    We are assuming the BO is on 'best behaviour' since this is her first real encounter with this client and her horse. So if this is her best behaviour... what you see is, imo, what you should expect - at its best.

    'At its best' was:
    BO made a new client wait TWO HOURS - presumably without prior communication that such would occur - for a coffee or lunch. The BO took full advantage of the OP in this situation and was ignorant and inconsiderate to her effect on the OP's schedule. When she told the OP she would be a half hour, she should have stuck to her word.
    BO had an UNKNOWN 3YO horse on the trailer and made said horse wait on the trailer for well over an hour. Now, I have no problem with making a horse wait. I'll ask a horse to wait in a trailer, I'll ask a horse to wait all day tied to a fence... but you do not do so with someone ELSE'S horse, without asking first! I've seen horses injure themselves throwing tantrums on trailers and the BO had no idea whether or not that could be the case in this situation. She had no idea whether or not this horse would be comfortable and had the prior and proper preparation to wait inside that trailer, safely. As it were, the horse came out with scrapes all over her head - not a huge deal in itself but it speaks to what could have happened and what was (likely) allowed to potentially occur.

    THEN the OP receives a TEXT in place of a phone call, that an unexpected charge will suddenly be applied. And less than 30 days notice that board will also be increased.

    One thing - not a big deal. All combined - imo that says something about the BO and it does not bode well. What other charges can the OP expect down the road? What other delays or similar inconsistencies can she expect? Personally, I don't like people who take liberties with me, with my time, and with my horses and who do not communicate and who do not do as they say they will do. That scares me. Imo such individuals are not to be relied upon and I want to leave my horse in the care of someone I can fully trust and rely on.

    I noted in my post that the OP should wait to say anything until she had found something else suitable. I was not in the "OMG leave immediately!" camp because although I feel the aforementioned trespasses are important, they are not life threatening - the OP had time to find something else that was suitable. If nothing suitable was available, the OP then had the option of sucking it up and keeping this experience at the back of her head (along with a good back-up plan).

    The reason I mentioned the OP should not discuss these things with the other boarders is because the OP noted these boarders are close to the BO - and personally I hate drama (which is usually what occurs in such situations). Why ask? The BO has shown her best side, what is done is done. What the OP should do however, imo, is politely discuss her concerns with the BO prior to following through with moving back to her old place. Communication is still important, even if it is just to help the BO understand why the OP is leaving.

    As a sidenote, I actually could see spending an hour at Timmy's. Sometimes the lines are long and though the chairs are not entirely comfortable, they are certainly comfortable enough for a soup and sandwhich and a chat, imo (btdt)

    Don't forget we're just going off of what the OP has told us, her perception and description of events. OP asked if she was over-reacting, to gain some perspective. I don't believe she is over-reacting to be concerned and to be leery of leaving her horse in this person's care (now, how she reacts and how she communicates with the BO, that's separate).
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,970

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    Is the OP of the spin off thread the Barn Owner?

    I'm not sure why this thread needed a spin off asking the exact same question in a different forum.

    Frankly I think that most boarders want their horse to have too much hay so the hay issue would not bother me.

    If the horse were just moved and nervous he might be drinking more water so this wouldn't bother me unless in a week the water bucket was still empty.

    Everything else I'd move the horse for. There is zero reason to stop for an hour for coffee and zero reason to raise board and fees as soon as the boarder shows up.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
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    9,931

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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    Seriously you guys need to go to some of the outstanding Timmies: a 30 min lineup is nothing & they certainly are much more popular than Starbucks in many communities - not to mention that you can drop in on horseback & order your fruit smoothie & sandwich at the drive through.

    Course when we trailer the horses, we stop at the Chevron/White Spot instead as they aren't very busy & have great trailer access.
    I hear Epcot Center has long lines too but I don't just spontaneously swing by and have myself a leisurely stroll through the exhibits when 15 minutes ago I left my point of origin with the plan to meet somebody who is waiting for me at the point of destination.

    Real Life Example:
    Last night I stayed later at work than expected and had a training ride to do at 6:15.
    I was hungry, but I didn't stop at Mickey D's on the way because I didn't have time to do so and not be late for the training ride.
    Then after the training ride I was still hungry but I was picking a friend up from the airport and didn't have time to stop and still get there on time.

    SO I WAITED TO EAT UNTIL AFTER I COULD DO SO AND STILL BE ON TIME TO THE REST OF MY LIFE.
    Rather than being like, "Oh, that training ride customer can wait," or "Oh, my friend can wait on the arrivals sidewalk while I grab a bite."

    I really did not think I was being exceptionally polite but apparently I really went above and beyond there.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2009
    Posts
    437

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye in the Sky View Post
    mvp, I'm curious as to why this bothers you so much. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but it seems as though this means more to you than just the things mentioned on the surface.

    For what its worth, I do think the boarder should leave; actions speak louder than words, and the actions are irresponsible and foolish on the part of the BO. I would not be able to trust someone with my horse that makes such poor choices.
    This!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    17,052

    Default

    Not sure why you are ranting about this thread but you can remove number 4 from your list of things, because the question was asked (and answered) on page 2 of that thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post

    4) No question about whether or not the horses at the place looked good, fencing looked good, feed looked good, etc.
    Copy and paste from the referenced thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrakeGirl View Post
    So what are the good things about this barn? Horses look fat and happy? Stalls clean? Fresh water at all times?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2011
    Location
    NC
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    2,341

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    Even if the barn was a flipping tajmahorse, if that was happening to me on DAY ONE, I'd be gone. Sure, nothing was in writing, but if BO had been planning a price hike and a myriad of other small charges, that should have come up.

    As far as the coffee thing, that would bother me but only because she was doing that on MY time. I've eaten with horses in the trailer before, but that was on my own time and not on anyone else's.

    A text instead of a phone call would not have bothered me hugely (I text my BO's all the time, it's just easier), unless the BO just assumed it was OK to text me without asking or anything... I know this is an age of technology, but some people still don't text or are on a limited plan, and actually incur a fee for each text sent or received, and while it isn't a huge fee, it's still a bit discourteous to just assume everyone texts, IMO.
    Trying a life outside of FEI tents and hotel rooms.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 1, 2011
    Posts
    34

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    Here's my thought on the subject.

    I spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on my horse and I want him to be healthy and happy. I will pay extra for what BO's consider "special care" and will supplement hay, feed, shavings, etc.
    I treat people with kindness and respect (even to those who don't deserve it). I try to see both sides, I know boarders can be a PITA. I follow rules, help other's when I can and try to get along with everyone.
    All I ask of a BO is to please take care of my horse. Don't take short cuts, don't lie to me about his care because I know what is and isn't done. I don't mind paying extra, but please do what you promise to do.
    I ask that you keep an eye on him and call me if something is wrong. If I pay extra for a certain amount of grain or hay, please give it to him. I hate to see my horse's ribs and dull coat.
    If you want to worm my horse and charge me that's fine, just make sure you give him the wormer. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want my horse to have water 24/7. Please don't get your panties in a wad, if I mention the water buckets are not being filled. I know your plate is full and the water buckets are filthy, I have no problem cleaning them myself.
    I know you think I'm neurotic, but after years of experience I have witnessed what can go wrong in bad situations. Unfortunately, I have paid a hefty price, both monetarily and emotionally.
    I just want to be able to go home and know that my horse is ok.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2011
    Location
    Ontario
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    1,061

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Chloe View Post
    Here's my thought on the subject.

    I spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on my horse and I want him to be healthy and happy. I will pay extra for what BO's consider "special care" and will supplement hay, feed, shavings, etc.
    I treat people with kindness and respect (even to those who don't deserve it). I try to see both sides, I know boarders can be a PITA. I follow rules, help other's when I can and try to get along with everyone.
    All I ask of a BO is to please take care of my horse. Don't take short cuts, don't lie to me about his care because I know what is and isn't done. I don't mind paying extra, but please do what you promise to do.
    I ask that you keep an eye on him and call me if something is wrong. If I pay extra for a certain amount of grain or hay, please give it to him. I hate to see my horse's ribs and dull coat.
    If you want to worm my horse and charge me that's fine, just make sure you give him the wormer. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want my horse to have water 24/7. Please don't get your panties in a wad, if I mention the water buckets are not being filled. I know your plate is full and the water buckets are filthy, I have no problem cleaning them myself.
    I know you think I'm neurotic, but after years of experience I have witnessed what can go wrong in bad situations. Unfortunately, I have paid a hefty price, both monetarily and emotionally.
    I just want to be able to go home and know that my horse is ok.
    I was the OP on that thread, I agree exactly with this!!
    My horse is my only child- I just want to know she is safe and happy and in the best situation I can afford.



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