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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2010
    Posts
    70

    Lightbulb Replacing Horse Slaughter with Horse Licensing (Passport)

    So I haven't been up to date with the forums for a long while but I am sure some of you must be outraged by the ban of horse slaughter being raised and then others say it is okay because it gives horses a way out of cruel situation... but then I got to thinking well what could stop both cruel situations and horse slaughter? Horse licensing. Exotic animals require licensing and many other countries do. I live in Germany and my horse needs a passport and the passport is documented with the agriculture federation that has all the health information of the horse and owners information. It required yearly check ups/vaccines from the vet that stamps the passport and serves as a device that tracks horses and their heath.

    It deters animal cruelty because only certain committed people have a horse then, it deters horse theft, it deters bad breeding, it works as identification of the horse across state borders and at horse shows. It wouldn't cost owners much more because they would only be paying for the actual passport and then the cost of their yearly health expenses would be the same. But horses are not for the super dirt poor anyways... I am a poor college student but still can make sure my horse is properly cared for and if this is a good alternative to horse slaughter and weeding out horse cruelty situations than why not promote this as an alternative? It takes care of a lot of issues... cruelty, bad breeding, horse theft, identification for horse shows and transportation, etc.

    Of course, there will still be the issue of some horse cruelty & theft, I am not saying it would eradicate it, but it seems like a better alternative than telling everyone they can have a horse and when they cant afford it anymore than can always get their last $300 by sending it to slaughter... that seems not fair to the horse... who went from pet to slaughter animal. If the horse must be put down because of heath or lameness issue than have it done properly and humanely... be vet.

    So what are your opinions on this? I would like to possibly put together a petition and write some letters to some people about this idea, but would first like to get the opinion of the horse world first. If you would like to assist me in this movement please contact me.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    43,103

    Default

    Why take a product we can sell and let it become a liability to dispose of, as so many unwanted horses are that go to slaughter now?

    Banning slaughter because someone abused a horse there is like banning driving because some drive drunk, nonsense.

    Passports are coming anyway.
    That is because keeping track of all and everything is the government's bean counters passion.
    You won't get them past the idea that they ought to count everything they can.
    With computers today doing the counting, it is cheap to do so, why not, they say?
    They love their job and it is job security for them also.

    We have those programs for cattle, they are getting every one house, farm or any kind of operation already in their books, what with premise registration, taxing to support the counties and schools, etc.

    We already have that, premise registration number, agricultural tax exemption number, our cattle are source verified and individually numbered and tracked all the way to every box in a restaurant and little package in a grocery store.

    Now, I don't know what you mean by licensing?
    Like dogs, a city license and proof of rabies vaccination?
    Take a test to own a horse?

    Be careful what you wish for, you may get it and you may not like the unintended consequences.

    Seriously, if you are confusing animal rights with animal welfare, as the animal rights groups propaganda does to some people, you may want to try to learn the difference first, before jumping on questionable bandwagons.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,733

    Default

    Bluey...Texas classifies Horses as Pets... take a look at the tax identification requirement for Agriculture that takes place as of Jan 1. 2012... horse ranches, training stables are specifically excluded as being worthy of getting a Tax Exemption number … now once the state or fed starts asking me to report where I have taken my dog or my cat they can forget about tracking my horses… they can just lock me up on the horses



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    43,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clanter View Post
    Bluey...Texas classifies Horses as Pets... take a look at the tax identification requirement for Agriculture that takes place as of Jan 1. 2012... horse ranches, training stables are specifically excluded as being worthy of getting a Tax Exemption number … now once the state or fed starts asking me to report where I have taken my dog or my cat they can forget about tracking my horses… they can just lock me up on the horses
    We also have requirements for a Coggins, to compete, any time a horse changes hands, if bought/sold or traded or gifted.
    Many states in the West have brand inspections, most states already have health inspection requirements to move horses, many shows and rodeos require those now around here and have someone at the gate asking to see them.

    I don't see that slaughter or not, those requirements for the general public will change either way.

    Remember a few years ago the big fight over NAIS?
    Well, NAIS didn't go away, is still being worked over and ready to show up here and there with other names.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2011
    Location
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts
    1,451

    Default

    I couldn't agree more. I don't think people should own horses unless they can prove they can be responsible owners, let alone breed them.

    Hell I was offered a horse for free (and a damn good one too, not a BYB horse) and I had to say no because I knew with my pay I'd have to struggle with annual boarding, farrier and vet costs. If the horse somehow got sick or injured, I'd have no means to pay hundreds of euros in vet bills, let alone thousands.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    43,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I don't think people should own horses unless they can prove they can be responsible owners, let alone breed them.

    Hell I was offered a horse for free (and a damn good one too, not a BYB horse) and I had to say no because I knew with my pay I'd have to struggle with annual boarding, farrier and vet costs. If the horse somehow got sick or injured, I'd have no means to pay hundreds of euros in vet bills, let alone thousands.
    That is called living within our means.
    That applies to all, if we own land and have maintenance bills, taxes, etc. to pay, utilities to pay when renting, or horses to maintain and so much else.

    Sadly, there are still Craiglist ads here with "I can't afford to buy a horse, but if you give me yours, I will take very good care of it".

    I have been seeing this situation coming on now for years, because it reflects the dog and cat as disposable items, now those people the last years could also have horses.
    When the economy tanked and other reasons, here we are, animal control having to handle surrendered/abandoned horses just like they do small pets.

    I am not sure that licensing pet owners would change that, just as licensing dogs has not changed this either.

    On the other hand, we have had the thriving horse industry we had for so long because of those people that got a horse and were buying the supplies they did for it.
    Many of those then went to participate in all else we do with horses today.

    I just saw someone here, that started like those people that happen to get a horse for their kid, the kid worked it's way up in the horse world and today were hauling in a nice trailer to some big event.
    Multiply that by all those out there doing the same and that starts to count in our horse industry.

    I do think we need to certify instructors, stables and barn managers.
    There is much that is not always up to par yet in how we care for our horses and what we do with them.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    20,124

    Default

    You can't get a tax exemption in Kentucky for horses either...but they most certainly aren't classified as pets.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    13,669

    Default So who is going to determine worthyness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I don't think people should own horses unless they can prove they can be responsible owners, let alone breed them.
    What criteria are they going to use? Income? Just because you have the money doesn'ty mean you're going to spend it on caring for your horse. Knowledge? Passing a test doesn't mean you will take care of something.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
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    3,969

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I don't think people should own horses unless they can prove they can be responsible owners, let alone breed them.
    ...
    And what is a "responsible owner"?



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    Default

    I don't see how a passport would replace slaughter...how so?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA, USA
    Posts
    2,491

    Default Oh boy

    In the Land of NO MORE GUVMMINT you want some Government official to decide who can and can't own a horse!

    Should it be a State official or a Federal official?

    I can see all the Libertarians exploding even as I write....

    But all joking aside, it is coming. Give it 5 -10 yrs. We'll be having to have passports and microchips for all our horses them.
    They drove out the attempt to get all horses microchipped (NAIS) before, but it's time will come.
    MW
    Melyni (PhD) PAS, Dipl. ACAN.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2011
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    How about we keep stupid European ideas in Europe?



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2011
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    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I don't think people should own horses unless they can prove they can be responsible owners, let alone breed them.

    Hell I was offered a horse for free (and a damn good one too, not a BYB horse) and I had to say no because I knew with my pay I'd have to struggle with annual boarding, farrier and vet costs. If the horse somehow got sick or injured, I'd have no means to pay hundreds of euros in vet bills, let alone thousands.
    Let me go through your life and I will decide what you should or should not own. K?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 2010
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I don't think people should own horses unless they can prove they can be responsible owners, let alone breed them.
    Is someone in the government going to decide this? I can see it now - just like they did with Frannie & Freddie. "Everyone deserves to own a horse, whether they can afford it or not - horses for all ".

    No thank you.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2011
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Incantation View Post
    Is someone in the government going to decide this? I can see it now - just like they did with Frannie & Freddie. "Everyone deserves to own a horse, whether they can afford it or not - horses for all ".

    No thank you.
    The biggest problem would be the opposite. We already have enough overzealous animal protection organizations. More of the same is what we don't need.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    Remember a few years ago the big fight over NAIS?
    Well, NAIS didn't go away, is still being worked over and ready to show up here and there with other names.
    Yes, it setting in the dark shadows waiting to pounce.... the fine structure for failure to report is still in place

    ...yet Texas calls horses pets



  17. #17
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    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    I don't think people should own horses unless they can prove they can be responsible owners, let alone breed them.
    remove horse; insert: dog, cat or child... then we are in China or is it Walmart?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,637

    Default

    Seriously, are the anti-slaughter people trolling the boards on purpose this weekend? If they don't know that most people on COTH are not frothing at the mouth mindless yes-men of the HORSIES ARE PETS animal rights movement they clearly never read the boards here.

    And yeah, that's great, let's have the government decide who can and can't own a horse. Then what? Pets?



  19. #19
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2011
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    That went well...............



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
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    4,525

    Default

    Even in horse registered, licensed regulated Europe, horses are still slaughtered. They are culled if they are not up to whatever standard they are held to.
    If not, where are you getting your horse meat that I've seen on the menu?
    The abbatiors are smaller, and local (at least in Switzerland, that I have seen from the road) but they are still there.



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