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  1. #1
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    Question VINEY and TB Guru's - looking at a FLF OTTB

    Would like folks thoughts on this mare and her pedigree..


    I want her for jumping and then eventually breeding...


    http://www.pedigreequery.com/rollicking+vista


    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.proboard...lay&thread=323
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



  2. #2
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    Why ? Why would you want this for breeding jumpers with ?



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhawk View Post
    Why ? Why would you want this for breeding jumpers with ?
    Why do you care what she does with it? Are you footing the bill?



  4. #4
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    I'm definitely not Viney but conformationally she doesn't look like she would be a strong jumping candidate to me. She is long in the back, a tad back at the knee especially in the left front, and is built downhill. I can't imagine an nice uphill canter to a big jump with her. I would pass, personally. Horses take too much effort, money, and time to settle for something that doesn't suit your needs - especially so with the gamble that buying a TB off the track is.

    Photos can be deceiving so who knows, maybe seeing her in person she is a whole different horse. I do like the photo of her front end and face (head on photo).



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zlotych View Post
    Why do you care what she does with it? Are you footing the bill?
    She asked for "thoughts on this mare".......I simply asked why for obvious reasons.



  6. #6
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    Since you plan on showing her first, see how that goes. Are you planning on showing her in the jumpers or hunters? See what her talent is like and go from there.

    I don't think her back is that long but it needs muscling up and condition which is hard to see out of race training. Everyone has a preference on this kind of thing. I'd rather length that short. She is back at the knee and chances are that will be bred over and over. Back at the knee in 3ft hunters no big deal, back at the knee at higher levels can lead to serious soft tissue issues. So you need to start with a really good blacksmith and keep her feet right and keep her in balance. She is a bit straight behind with a longer back which I don't like. When looking at the front view of her you see how close she is behind and a bit cow hocked. The picture they took of her behind is better but I'd be trying for that too.

    Now everything I pointed out could mean zilch if she wants to be a jumping star. But many of the things you see will be bred along no matter what stallion you pick. So you have to look at it from all angles. This assessment is also my opinion only in what I see, does not make me right. Had I saw her as a yearling I probably would have passed from a racing standpoint.

    If I'm honest when I'm in a racing yard or at sales, I find very few that I would say, yeah that one would be great for sport. Even if the pedigree is fabulous. But that's just me.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  7. #7
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    Feb. 15, 2011
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    I think if I had $2000 to spend on a horse, I wouldn't buy that one.

    There's another I quickly looked at whose conformation doesn't make me want to run away named "Unbridled Laugh".



  8. #8
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    Her back is not too long but she is a little downhill. However, you'd still have to see her move before making a decision. It's just a couple of pictures. In any case, there are some fabulous "downhill" horses out there.

    Back at the knee? The main issue is that the foot is in front of the leg. This mare needs some foot rehab, that's for sure.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steffcia View Post
    I think if I had $2000 to spend on a horse, I wouldn't buy that one.

    There's another I quickly looked at whose conformation doesn't make me want to run away named "Unbridled Laugh".
    That one caught my eye, too-- a very nicely made horse, prettily presented, too. The one thing that gave me a little pause was the hind end. Strangely (to me), almost, if not all the horses on this site seem to stand too much on their heels behind, making their croups look steep and hind canons angling off the perpendicular regardless of things like hock and stifle angles. Wonder if it's something to do with farriery or something else at this track-- i.e., very long toes/ dropped heels in back as well as front? I don't remember seeing this at other sites, and certainly not in stallion directories.



    Or am I just seeing things?



  10. #10
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    Thanks everyone for your input - I know she would change dramatically after a year of being out of racing and with some time off as well through correct training.

    I have seen it over and over and I have had 6 OTTB's.

    However I dont want sickle hocks or behind the knees. I dont think her back is as long a you think - just needs muscle.

    I was interested in her mostly for her pedigree -its fabulous for sporthorses and she is out of the 3-O motherline which has produced many sporthorses.

    But you have to look at what is in front of you at the time and since I cant go see her in person I will go with the COTH advice to pass this time.

    Thanks.
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    That one caught my eye, too-- a very nicely made horse, prettily presented, too. The one thing that gave me a little pause was the hind end. Strangely (to me), almost, if not all the horses on this site seem to stand too much on their heels behind, making their croups look steep and hind canons angling off the perpendicular regardless of things like hock and stifle angles. Wonder if it's something to do with farriery or something else at this track-- i.e., very long toes/ dropped heels in back as well as front? I don't remember seeing this at other sites, and certainly not in stallion directories.



    Or am I just seeing things?

    I personally would not want unbridled laugh - this time due to pedigree - she has three crosses to Mr. P and I can handle one cross depending on the son but I would not trust one with three crosses to stay sound long term. But once again you have to look at whats in front of you. I just have done too much research on TB lines to take the chance with her. Once again my two cents which probably doesnt equal a hill of beans...
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



  12. #12
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    I don't think her back is that long either and I don't rally care for leggy but short backed - IMO that contributes to bad walks and goose stepping trots and as a rider I don't get a good feel from a short backed horse, especially a leggy short backed horse.

    If you can't go see the horse, it's dangerous, so I think you are making the right decision. I have to second fish on the observation about what I am pretty sure is the farrier approach being used - it is making the angles and the overall package of a lot of horses on the site look wonky. It's like the foot got disconnected, heel shaved down and angle of foot v Pasterns sharply dropped, then reconnected with the toes almost pointing up. With one, I'd think horse, with several I have to think some shoeing theory is partly responsible. You don't know if you can pull the fort around, but feet take time to correct.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbp View Post
    I don't think her back is that long either and I don't rally care for leggy but short backed - IMO that contributes to bad walks and goose stepping trots and as a rider I don't get a good feel from a short backed horse, especially a leggy short backed horse.

    If you can't go see the horse, it's dangerous, so I think you are making the right decision. I have to second fish on the observation about what I am pretty sure is the farrier approach being used - it is making the angles and the overall package of a lot of horses on the site look wonky. It's like the foot got disconnected, heel shaved down and angle of foot v Pasterns sharply dropped, then reconnected with the toes almost pointing up. With one, I'd think horse, with several I have to think some shoeing theory is partly responsible. You don't know if you can pull the fort around, but feet take time to correct.


    Yep - about everything I have gotten off the track needed extensive shoeing repairs... and it takes a long time to fix some problems if you can fix at all.
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



  14. #14
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    Most every OTTB we get has low heels and long toes. We try hard NOT to re-show for several months if the hoof is strong enough to go barefoot. This gives us growth from which to begin reshaping the hoof. We have a fabulous farrier who works magic with TB feet, so wanky feet are never an issue we cant overcome.
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  15. #15
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    Ditto to her back not being long.

    However, I DO think she has a longer loin - not as weak as it could be for that length, but not the strongest. However, I do think her back, which is really on the shorter side, will help compensate for that.

    She's also not back at the knee. There's the illusion of it with a longer pastern (which isn't greatly sloped, so that helps cancel out some of the length), and a hoof that is out in front of her. She will for sure need some good hoof rehab

    At 5, she may still grow a bit, but as-is, she's pretty downhill from stifle to elbow. Have you seen her move? She might not move like her conformation would seem to dictate. I'd for sure want to see her canter at liberty before deciding on her as a jumper.
    ______________________________
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Ditto to her back not being long.

    However, I DO think she has a longer loin - not as weak as it could be for that length, but not the strongest. However, I do think her back, which is really on the shorter side, will help compensate for that.

    She's also not back at the knee. There's the illusion of it with a longer pastern (which isn't greatly sloped, so that helps cancel out some of the length), and a hoof that is out in front of her. She will for sure need some good hoof rehab

    At 5, she may still grow a bit, but as-is, she's pretty downhill from stifle to elbow. Have you seen her move? She might not move like her conformation would seem to dictate. I'd for sure want to see her canter at liberty before deciding on her as a jumper.
    Yeah that is why I am passing - I have no way of seeing her in person.
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



  17. #17
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    maybe hunters but not Jumpers IMO


    She is lovely though 2k is a little steep for these guys though



  18. #18
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    She is back at the knee. I look at many of these horses in yearling phase. Correct foot work is going to help but it is there. I would have advised against buying her as a racehorse. But there you go. My opinion. And I also said nothing about sickle hocks but I want an angle behind. Look at jumpers, look at TB's that chase. Different lines, well good ones that hold up to the training at high levels. That's why long backs are not a bad thing. As in proportion to everything else going on. Which is why I'd pass. There is no perfect horse but for what you want, you can find better.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbp View Post
    I don't think her back is that long either and I don't rally care for leggy but short backed - IMO that contributes to bad walks and goose stepping trots and as a rider I don't get a good feel from a short backed horse, especially a leggy short backed horse.
    Funny. When my leggy, short backed horse isn't being a butt at shows, he gets 8s or 9s on his walk. By far the best walk I've ever ridden... I guess it's a case of YMMV! Incidentally, my guy has Al Hattab in the same generation, I think, and that's where I credit a lot of his most positive traits from, Pleasant Colony being the other line which seems to have a lot of influence on him.


    (Though I agree that there's a specific feel for shorter backs. More tense at other gaits being one of them. I prefer shorter backs and do well with them, but it's definitely a know your preferences as a rider thing!)
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    Funny. When my leggy, short backed horse isn't being a butt at shows, he gets 8s or 9s on his walk. By far the best walk I've ever ridden... I guess it's a case of YMMV! Incidentally, my guy has Al Hattab in the same generation, I think, and that's where I credit a lot of his most positive traits from, Pleasant Colony being the other line which seems to have a lot of influence on him.


    (Though I agree that there's a specific feel for shorter backs. More tense at other gaits being one of them. I prefer shorter backs and do well with them, but it's definitely a know your preferences as a rider thing!)
    I love a short back.. but you are right - it is a preference.
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



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