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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
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    8,388

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    Sorry, eks. I am cutting way back in my breeding, but I am sure I will find a good use for the FC semen. I bought it the first year it was offered.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    May. 14, 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,400

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    Just FYI, at a 3* CDI this year, Prince recieved 8.5,8,9,9,4(lateral comment) . That 1 mark cost him 2 placings. He would have been 2nd if not for that 1 judge who sat across from the one who gave 8.5. Cost money and World Cup points,which are far more important.

    But as breeders, we each have vto educate our own eyes and do what we feel right.
    Vanilla or chocolate? different but both wonderful!
    Maryanna Haymon- Marydell Farm - Home to Don Principe & Doctor Wendell MF
    www.marydellfarm.com
    2012 USDF Champion Breeder! 2007, 2011 USEF Champ Breeder
    2009,2010,2011 USDF Res Breeder of the Year!



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2006
    Posts
    3,145

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    Now this is a VERY nice walk. (around the 30 second mark) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFy-lcUw17g (I'm pretty sure she got a 9 at her MPT) The V formed by the front and hind legs stays together for a loooong time in the stride.
    And a still from this video:
    http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...m/d1cff229.png

    And here's FC's walk. And a few stills from videos showing why I think he moves laterally.
    http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...m/b5cfd3a6.png
    http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...m/de0fbb7c.png
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6NupkObJxg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmLHMNASquQ

    Notice his walk is worse on the left. (in several videos)

    I do like his trot a lot.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2006
    Location
    SF Bay area
    Posts
    1,246

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    it is important to remember that there is a big difference potentially in scores from a MPT vs international or national championship competition.....
    Just sayin.



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    3,857

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    The video of your good example explains now to me where you are coming from and how you compare. And you are not telling us to evaluate a gait especially walk by looking at still-pictures ????

    Each to their own.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2006
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    3,145

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexandra View Post
    The video of your good example explains now to me where you are coming from and how you compare. And you are not telling us to evaluate a gait especially walk by looking at still-pictures ????

    Each to their own.
    Oh heck no. LOL thanks for the laugh this morning.

    What the stills show is the V that's supposed to be formed. That was the intent of the still pics. Last month Ludwig made it a point to mention this. The point to be made here is that a lateral walk, that V isn't there or only lasts for a split fraction of a partial second. Each horse has a different style of walk but the quality in the basic movement is like night and day. IMO



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
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    Whoever Ludwig is - interesting to learn that the V -shape is the mayor criteria for walk.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexandra View Post
    Whoever Ludwig is - interesting to learn that the V -shape is the mayor criteria for walk.

    I am thinking Dr Christmann?



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2006
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    3,145

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    Yes. My iPhone changes his last name so I gave up trying to get it to go.

    And we both know there's more to it than that. . But as has been pointed out, a lateral walk will get a 4. So there does seem to be importance not to do that in the show ring.



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2005
    Location
    Oxford, USA
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    3,735

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    I wasn't going to post here, but it continues to rankle me that somehow owners trump judges in training the eye. Judges spend many years getting their license and their education is constantly being refined. Forums are held every year for judges to see, discuss and interact, and exams are given. It is a real sign of disrespect to say one judge saw something imaginary the others didn't. It would be more constructive to assume that judge saw something real, and work on the correction. A dressage score is different from an inspection score, and young horse classes have different criteria from grand prix.
    Breeding horses is intensely personal, and creates a lot of emotion. Factors in a stallion's life can affect his gaits, as can his level of training, and stress in general. Choosing a particular stallion for a particular mare involves intellect, experience, knowledge and most importantly, the heart.
    Last edited by not again; Nov. 30, 2011 at 11:53 AM.
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  11. #51
    Join Date
    May. 14, 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,400

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    to not again---when 4 judges see one movement-extended walk in this case, as an 8 or better, and one sees the same movement, at the same time, as a 4, there is something "off" about that. And since the"4" judge had the same point of view as the 8.5, that speaks to me of education of that judge, not something to be "fixed" in the horse because of a "JUDGE" saying it is so. BTW, I have the video(always video for our own education) shot from 2 cameras, one at E and one at C. not lateral from either POV.
    Honeylips is spot on, there is a huge difference between an MPT or SPT score and competition. So decide what you want in your breeding program offspring, more "breeding type" or performance type.
    JFYI, Dr. Christman saw Prince three weeks ago at the breeder's course and said "there is nothing more to want in a walk. This is a ten".

    I have been breeding for 20 yr now.
    As for FC, I would breed to him in a heartbeat. And I say this as I have seen several offspring under saddle and LOVE them. I will stop now.
    Maryanna Haymon- Marydell Farm - Home to Don Principe & Doctor Wendell MF
    www.marydellfarm.com
    2012 USDF Champion Breeder! 2007, 2011 USEF Champ Breeder
    2009,2010,2011 USDF Res Breeder of the Year!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2004
    Location
    North Florida
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    792

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marydell View Post
    Honeylips is spot on, there is a huge difference between an MPT or SPT score and competition.
    And Materiale scores are an entirely different ballgame too.



  13. #53
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    Apr. 2, 2006
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    3,145

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    "More breeding type or more performance type."

    Well personally, I want it all and won't settle for the lateral performance type. (that will score 4's)

    I thought Prince's walk was beautiful!! (along with his impecable temperment, he traveled all the way from NC amd then did a GP test in a snaffle and never put a foot wrong the entire time) I saw the same walk Dr.LC did. But it looks nothing like FC's (and thats a good thing), because it's correct in every way. So THAT "performance type" I'll take any day!!!!! And I will say that when there's a huge delta between scores on the same movements, you're right, something does NOT seem right. You'd think scores would be averaged (or something) if more than a (fill in the blank) delta existed on the same movement..

    Has anyone found FC's walk scores yet?



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2008
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    6

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    So you are saying that if I can acquire several doses and don't use them all I would have no trouble selling them?
    The greatest obstacle to discovery in not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
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    Hannover, Germany
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    No idea where you could get some, but I know quite a few people including myself, who would like to use him again.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    8,388

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    You'd probably have folks camping on your doorstep, with semen tanks at the ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitethorn View Post
    So you are saying that if I can acquire several doses and don't use them all I would have no trouble selling them?



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,283

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    Has anyone tried contacting http://www.reitschule-sandbrink.de/ ? They bought the horse at the PSI auction. I have been told it is possible to get semen. I have a mare in foal to him right now. The semen was excellent, I got a pregnancy from one and two straws (one mare lost it) from a five straw dose!
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  18. #58
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    3,857

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    Yes - I know her and talked to her. I was offered to breed my mare to him, but only at a special vet clinic, semen would not be handed out. As I am not happy with that I did not do it. She has only very very few portions left.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  19. #59
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
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    Hannover, Germany
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    For clarification: i talked to Reitschule Sandbrink not the current owner.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2003
    Location
    this side of insanity
    Posts
    635

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    Judy Yancey just posted on her site that she will have FC frozen for this season....



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