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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2011
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    30

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    To contribute to this discussion (late) I have had exposure to numerous BNT over the last few years and I have yet to meet someone who is as charismatic and genuine as Boyd. I had the opportunity to run into him again a few months back after I took a tumble at an intermediate xc jump and he took the time out of his schedule to walk me through my approach and landing and his version of what he saw (re: met falling). This help/advice was unsolicited, he happened to be re-walking his course when he saw me tumble and stopped by my barn later on in the day.

    So for me, I am heading to Aiken this winter and staying with my trainer at $65.00 per day! and would have LOVED the opportunity to be a working student for Boyd. It is not feasible as I am in my final semester of college but for all those that are faulting his terms, there are just as many of us out there who would readily accept his terms!

    And for all the naysayers out there, my parents ONLY pay for my blacksmith bill ... nothing else.



  2. #122
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2007
    Location
    Napanee ON
    Posts
    5,145

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    Quote Originally Posted by JLL90 View Post

    And for all the naysayers out there, my parents ONLY pay for my blacksmith bill ... nothing else.
    no foot...no horse



  3. #123
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    4,370

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin@DHH View Post
    Jealoushe, I thought JudyRedHorse was offering almost
    exactly what you describe as usual in the UK: room, board,
    board for a horse, lessons with a BNT and paid entries at
    shows (when riding her horses, not your own) and a small
    salary. Yet, people told her she was exploiting riders and
    she kept getting responses from riders who were either
    not interested or had unreasonable restrictions. Seems
    like even when such opportunities are offered, they still
    don't find traction.
    Yes was free room and board for WS in a nice big clean room..own heat n A/C, full board for 1 horse , the opportunity to take 2 green OTTB and make them up, compete, advertise, (photograph, do video and write Ad text) learn to inter act w/ clients, PPE''s, negotate and close deal plus get % of price. Also go to track and buy horses, ride along w/ my Vet on her calls, go to track to stay w/ trainer and see what makes the TB tick, including spending part of their day w/ 4* rider and lesson w/ her as well as supervised schooling rides on any where from 2 - 4 horses a day Including XC schools, hacking out, flat, paid clinic participation. Some stall mucking and tack cleaning 1.5 days off week, a stipend of $200 month and not be my slave...but Oh did I get burned on this...because I required a non-disclosre agreement and proof of insurance...and keeping an eye on Tot occasionally for 4* rider but by no means a nanny position.
    This WS position was NOT geared towards someone who was expecting a BNT/BNR to leapfrog them up the levels but to the person who wanted to become a professional in the craft of buying and selling OTTB. While enjoying an opportunity to work part of the day w/ a bonified 4* rider. But by not being a BN anything and offering an offensive stipend wanting to keep a lid and some discretion on my business as well as making sure the WS would have medical care I got ripped...so now back to regular program




  4. #124
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
    Posts
    4,343

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    JBRP, What annoyed me about your topic was that people were complaining about how entitled today's youth were for not taking you up on your offer. People seemed suprised and chalked it up to "lazy youths"... Boyd's position is by no means generous either and if he comes on here complaining about how lazy kids today are not taking him up on his offer, I'd be just as annoyed.

    Both of your positions require additional financial support and the lack of interest (if there is) is more about that it probably takes income of about $2000 a month to stay afloat than kids not wanting to muck stalls and being lazy.

    I promise, if he comes on here complaining about what twits the people who responded to his ads were, I'll say something....



  5. #125
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2011
    Posts
    414

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    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post
    Yes was free room and board for WS in a nice big clean room..own heat n A/C, full board for 1 horse , the opportunity to take 2 green OTTB and make them up, compete, advertise, (photograph, do video and write Ad text) learn to inter act w/ clients, PPE''s, negotate and close deal plus get % of price. Also go to track and buy horses, ride along w/ my Vet on her calls, go to track to stay w/ trainer and see what makes the TB tick, including spending part of their day w/ 4* rider and lesson w/ her as well as supervised schooling rides on any where from 2 - 4 horses a day Including XC schools, hacking out, flat, paid clinic participation. Some stall mucking and tack cleaning 1.5 days off week, a stipend of $200 month and not be my slave...but Oh did I get burned on this...because I required a non-disclosre agreement and proof of insurance...and keeping an eye on Tot occasionally for 4* rider but by no means a nanny position.
    This WS position was NOT geared towards someone who was expecting a BNT/BNR to leapfrog them up the levels but to the person who wanted to become a professional in the craft of buying and selling OTTB. While enjoying an opportunity to work part of the day w/ a bonified 4* rider. But by not being a BN anything and offering an offensive stipend wanting to keep a lid and some discretion on my business as well as making sure the WS would have medical care I got ripped...so now back to regular program

    It disappoints me that no one took you up on your offer- I was interested, I really, genuinely was, but I have to finish out high school first so there was no possible way for me to do it right now. I am sorry no one took you up on your amazing offer.
    And this is the story of your red right ankle.



  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    8,143

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    Obviously, those "grumbling" have no idea what it is to pursue a career in horses, or even the ambition to further oneself in a chosen hobby path.
    Both of your positions require additional financial support and the lack of interest (if there is) is more about that it probably takes income of about $2000 a month to stay afloat than kids not wanting to muck stalls and being lazy.
    Exactly this.

    If I had money to invest in a working student position, I would look into one like Boyd's - working directly for a BNT with proven results. It's quite expensive - this is indisputable, at over a grand for just boarding per month. But you get Boyd Martin on your resume, and making good contacts is almost a guarantee.

    That being said, a lot of riders still can't afford to do Boyd's program. That's not because they have "no idea" or because they're not "ambitious," it's simply a crappy economy and an expensive proposition.

    In judy's case, we weren't talking about learning full time from a BNT. We were talking about some lessons with a 4* rider and stipulations including childcare. It was also run by someone that thought nothing of coming onto COTH and complaining about how crappy her applicant pool was and how entitled they were. So, what she needed to find was someone who also had the means to support themselves (paying for their own healthcare, phone, etc) and who was willing to deal with childcare and having their boss as a roommate on top of that. It may not have cost what Boyd's program cost, but it STILL costs quite a bit, and you weren't getting Boyd's experience, either.

    It may have been an opportunity in it's own right, but of course - the applicant pool was even more limited.

    as well as making sure the WS would have medical care I got ripped
    I would just like to make one point of clarity - you weren't "making sure the WS would have medical care." You were requiring having medical insurance as a condition of employment. And while that's all well and good, it's another thing that costs beyond the stipend you were offering, adding to the costs of working for you.
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2009
    Posts
    904

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    Quote Originally Posted by JLL90 View Post
    To contribute to this discussion (late) I have had exposure to numerous BNT over the last few years and I have yet to meet someone who is as charismatic and genuine as Boyd. I had the opportunity to run into him again a few months back after I took a tumble at an intermediate xc jump and he took the time out of his schedule to walk me through my approach and landing and his version of what he saw (re: met falling). This help/advice was unsolicited, he happened to be re-walking his course when he saw me tumble and stopped by my barn later on in the day.
    Wow. What a great story! Thanks for sharing.
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

    www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
    www.useaiv.org



  8. #128
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2009
    Posts
    904

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    Looks like the position has been filled.

    Congrats to the lucky winner. It sounds like she will learn a lot from Boyd this winter.

    Before the mud-slinging begins regarding her being a high school student, I just want to say that we do not know anything about her and I hope that she learns the most she possibly can from it, no matter what means she is using to be able to go. Let's leave it at that, shall we?
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

    www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
    www.useaiv.org



  9. #129
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    4,370

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    Don't worry I am very happy w/ the WS applicants that came by word of mouth and recommendation,not a one has a single issue with what I offer or asked...Its been a very good Black Friday....



  10. #130
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2008
    Posts
    3,749

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    Dang. JBRP--If I'd known that I was going to get laid off, I'd have totally applied to your ad! I'll have COBRA for 6 months (assuming I don't find a job in the meantime) so I'd have been good to go and I certainly know how to keep my trap shut as I work(ed) in healthcare and occasionally handle care for celebrities and other famous and famous-ish people. Maybe next layoff....

    Back to Boyd--Frankly, for a 3-month stint, I don't know that I'd have wanted to uproot my horse. He has a great (albeit cheap and non-fancy) spot at home and a half-leaser to keep him busy while I could soak in Boyd's genius and knowledge. Sure, I'd love to haul Gus down, but for only 3 months? That's iffy because I'd hate to lose his spot at home for such a short stint in heaven.

    I'm in a spot kinda like catosis as seen here: Ok, last post, I promise! I have unfortunately hijacked this thread. One of the issues that I have personally had in the search for a working student position is that people are looking for someone they don't have to invest any "job training" in- They want someone who already knows how to break the babies, clip and braid for shows, AND ride like a pro. Now, this is just not realistic: I am that horse obsessed suburban girl who is always riding whatever she can get her hands on once a week, if that. No one has taken the time to teach me everything there is to know about training and horse care, and that is part of the reason why I want to find a good WSP. I want to learn, and trust me, I am a quick learner when taught properly and thoroughly the first time, but no one has bothered to invest the amount of time and energy it would require for me to know everything any Olympic groom worth their salt knows already. So, gold2012, if you want a hard working, enthusiastic, tragically under qualified working student for the summer, feel free to PM me.

    Except that I *HAVE* been a working student for a local/medium name trainer with a 40 horse farm. I've been a show groom (note: can't braid worth crap) and a stablehand and a evil school/lesson/training pony jock. I've had to learn about foals thanks to my rescue mare coming to me in foal. And I've worked with various vets and farriers over the years and learned a good bit about how to assist them or just hold and stay the hell out of their way. I'm absolutely not afraid of 12 hour days 6-7 days/week, of cold/hot/wet/parched weather, bug-infested living quarters, or unmedicated bipolar alcoholic bosses.

    BUT, and this is a hell of a but, I'm a weenie over fences. My confidence is in the crapper and I'm at a point where I'll ride *MY* bratly greenie over small fences, but hopping unfamiliar horses over fences (note: I'll ride about anything on the flat) scares the beejesus outta me. Eventer13 was kind enough to loan me her Prelim horse this past weekend to start working on this and I think we made definite progress, but I'm very aware until I get my head screwed on straight, I'm not marketable to anyone as a WS. Groom, yes. Stablehand, yes. Barn manager, yes. But WS, heck no.

    So, rambling and derailing aside, I can totally see both sides to the Boyd issue and frankly, I'm jealous as hell of the kiddo, but I wish her the absolute best and I'm confident that one day, it'll be MY turn.
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.



  11. #131
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    14,658

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    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post
    Don't worry I am very happy w/ the WS applicants that came by word of mouth and recommendation,not a one has a single issue with what I offer or asked...Its been a very good Black Friday....
    That is good news. I hope he/she works out, I'm sure this is the last place you'll go to complain if they don't.
    "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."



  12. #132
    Join Date
    Oct. 17, 2009
    Location
    Unionville
    Posts
    1,089

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    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    Except that I *HAVE* been a working student for a local/medium name trainer with a 40 horse farm. I've been a show groom (note: can't braid worth crap) and a stablehand and a evil school/lesson/training pony jock. I've had to learn about foals thanks to my rescue mare coming to me in foal. And I've worked with various vets and farriers over the years and learned a good bit about how to assist them or just hold and stay the hell out of their way. I'm absolutely not afraid of 12 hour days 6-7 days/week, of cold/hot/wet/parched weather, bug-infested living quarters, or unmedicated bipolar alcoholic bosses.

    BUT, and this is a hell of a but, I'm a weenie over fences. My confidence is in the crapper and I'm at a point where I'll ride *MY* bratly greenie over small fences, but hopping unfamiliar horses over fences (note: I'll ride about anything on the flat) scares the beejesus outta me. Eventer13 was kind enough to loan me her Prelim horse this past weekend to start working on this and I think we made definite progress, but I'm very aware until I get my head screwed on straight, I'm not marketable to anyone as a WS. Groom, yes. Stablehand, yes. Barn manager, yes. But WS, heck no.
    I just want to address the above part of your post. It does not sound like you are woefully under qualified but that a WS position is not the right thing for you right now. I am very sympathetic to being a "weenie" about certain riding things, but I do not think that a WS position would be helpful to you at this point. If you are working to overcome your fears then you need to do that in a manner that is productive to you - which is likely with a trainer who knows you on a horse that you trust at a pace that doesn't overface you. Save your WS chips for when you have overcome your jumping fears because you will get much more out of the experience given that you will be confident enough to ride and train unfamiliar horses which is a great learning experience if you are ready. Trainers are probably hesitant to take you as a WS knowing that you need to overcome your fears and knowing that they might not be the right person to help you do that.

    Just my 2 cents.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals" Immanuel Kant



  13. #133
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2005
    Location
    Where it is perpetually winter
    Posts
    5,810

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    Quote Originally Posted by kt-rose View Post
    Congratulations to Erin on her great opportunity! As a teenager, I had the good fortune to spend several years as a working student for Victor Hugo-Vidal in his heyday at Cedar Lodge Farm. Worked like a slave, made no money, Dad paid board for my horse and I worked off my lessons. While I moved from that world to eventing in my early 20s, what I had a chance to learn being in that program still stands me in good stead every day in my life with horses. It was a privilege, an honor and a gift. I learned a level of horsemanship I have tried to build on for the next 30 odd years. It was a long time ago but it was still the making of me in very many ways. Those of you who don't get it...just don't get it...
    Just out of curiosity, what years were you there? My mom rode with Victor and is wondering if she met you (she has a username on here, but almost never posts).



  14. #134
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2008
    Posts
    3,749

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    VR--That's my plan actually. I'm going to keep on working on my issues and who knows what the future will hold.
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.



  15. #135
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2011
    Posts
    235

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    Many high school students these days "bypass" school by doing independent study so they can ride. This isn't uncommon at all, and if you've got the cash, more power to you. If you've got the cash to go drop a wad of change to ride with Boyd for 3 months, again, more power to you. I'm sure this kid will learn a load, hopefully improve in her riding, and have fun. I wish her the best.

    Again, as for the absurdity that was the working student agreement... I read just yesterday of a up and coming 4* rider who was/ is seeking a WS. She offers free board for 1 horse, lodging, shipping, lessons, and coaching. All you have to pay is for your horse's upkeep, shows, and your food. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to get to be in SlowCala for a few months!



  16. #136
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2009
    Posts
    67

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    I think the key words in your post are "up and coming 4* rider".
    Boyd has already arrived.
    Boyd is talented and a nice guy who we are fortunate to have riding for the USA.



  17. #137
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2002
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    402

    Default so what is a good working student position,

    I am just curious what everyone thinks is a good working student position? We have a local college here that does equine studies, and the general feel about the course is save your tuition fees and just get a good working student position.
    We have had a few working students come through our barn, and they just didn't work out. Is it that the position is not looked at as an educational opportunity or do people not have a good grasp of what the position actually entails?
    Really interested in what people think?
    www.tayvalleyfarm.com
    My other home.



  18. #138
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2006
    Location
    Saco, Maine
    Posts
    4,732

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    TEXAN,
    My daughter had a fantastic WS job between high school and college. She worked for a BNT in PA. Lived in the guest room, shared meals with BNT and her husband. Daughter rode up to 12 horses a day, usually with the boss, had lessons frequently, rarely mucked a stall, tacked up for her boss, did all the barn work (clipping, braiding, truck packing, cold hosing, etc etc) except stalls. They were in PA till January then went to Aiken. She had her new 3 year old TB with her-board was covered. She was put up in a furnished apartment in Aiken with 2 other women. Yes, my daughter worked from dawn till bedtime but her expenses were all paid, she got a whole lot of great lessons, she had a ball and still, 9 years later, is great friends with her BNT.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  19. #139
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2002
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    402

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverBendPol View Post
    TEXAN,
    My daughter had a fantastic WS job between high school and college. She worked for a BNT in PA. Lived in the guest room, shared meals with BNT and her husband. Daughter rode up to 12 horses a day, usually with the boss, had lessons frequently, rarely mucked a stall, tacked up for her boss, did all the barn work (clipping, braiding, truck packing, cold hosing, etc etc) except stalls. They were in PA till January then went to Aiken. She had her new 3 year old TB with her-board was covered. She was put up in a furnished apartment in Aiken with 2 other women. Yes, my daughter worked from dawn till bedtime but her expenses were all paid, she got a whole lot of great lessons, she had a ball and still, 9 years later, is great friends with her BNT.
    River, did your daughter get paid anything at all? What about food, clothing etc... was that covered also or did you have to give her money for that? Is not cleaning stalls the deciding factor in all of this.? Yes our working students had to clean stalls along with the BO and the BM, its not like they had to do it all themselves.
    I guess i am just a little confused about all this. I paid for everything when my kid rode, including buying the competitive horse, plus board,plus lessons, plus,plus,plus... you get my drift... so if a barn offers all of that as compensation, how is it that people dont think that is enough... Boyd's situation is different.
    www.tayvalleyfarm.com
    My other home.



  20. #140
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2005
    Location
    central NJ
    Posts
    605

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    Quote Originally Posted by texan View Post
    I am just curious what everyone thinks is a good working student position? We have a local college here that does equine studies, and the general feel about the course is save your tuition fees and just get a good working student position.
    We have had a few working students come through our barn, and they just didn't work out. Is it that the position is not looked at as an educational opportunity or do people not have a good grasp of what the position actually entails?
    Really interested in what people think?

    Both parties should get something out of a good WS position. What will "I" get working for "you" that I wouldn't get doing stalls at the training center up the road? What will you get from me that you wouldn't get from a regular hired laborer?

    Many young people dive into being a WS for the exact reason you state (I know I did) and just like those that go off to college, there are some that find they aren't cut out for the daily grind and end up switching "majors." And like college, there are many that can't fit a wage-earning job around a full day of "class" -- the difference being you can't apply for a scholarship or financial aid for Working Student University, so if you can't make your ends meet, you might need to drop out.

    (I don't include horse shows or even lessons in this, I mean basics like groceries, work clothes, car expenses, and your own horse's care if it applies.)

    I have a group of friends several years younger than me (read: still in high school), and when they hear about my current horsey job, they think I'm SO lucky to be around horses all day! I tell them to find a summer WS job, or even come work for me for a weekend, and then see how they feel... I'll let you know when I find any that took up the challenge and didn't change their minds.

    Those that grew up without a lot of hands-on horse experience do tend to underestimate the amount and type of work that goes into daily barn life, and some do get overwhelmed or realize it's not for them. For some of us, it's not an issue of being able or even wanting to do the work, but just surviving long enough to learn anything. For me, a good WS position would have been one that is not dependent upon outside financial help.
    Member of the Standardbreds with Saddles Clique!
    They're not just for racing!
    nowthatsatrot.blogspot.com



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