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  1. #101
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    Jun. 2, 2008
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    148

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    It's undoubtedly not worth an uproar, but Boyd's position is considerably more expensive for the ws than any other I have seen. Most positions, even with BNTs, at least provide a place for the ws to live. Most charge far less to bring a horse and some provide food as well as housing. This position consists primarily of hard manual labor rather than learning since presumably someone considered qualified will already know how perform "stall cleaning, grooming horses, tacking and untacking, and general barn and farm clean-up". Paying such a high price to do this labor for extremely long hours 6-7 days a week seems a little crazy. It would be so much more efficient to simply pay for regular lessons with Boyd or another BNT and not much more costly. On the plus side, Boyd is perfectly upfront about the costs and nature of the position, and people can either take it or leave it.



  2. #102
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
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    4,343

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    Boyd is perfectly upfront about the costs and nature of the position, and people can either take it or leave it.
    exactly.



  3. #103
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2000
    Location
    Now In the Sandhills, NC mostly
    Posts
    6,769

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    Forgive me if anybody has mentioned this already, but breaking down the cost of the "stall" and comparing it around the rest of Aiken doesn't really work in a barn like Boyd's. If it's anything like the upper level barns I'm familiar with, the horses are all in a very particular program--and ALL of them in the barn are in the program. That includes the top of the line feed, hay and supplements. Many barns feed Ulcerguard and Succeed *DAILY*, most of them are on Adequan or something simliar. They get seen by a sporthorse vet to jog *weekly*. Among other things, care at that level costs a LOT of money. My bet is that the dry stalls cost 350$ or so a month, and the care/feeding/supplements/etc costs close to 1K. A professional who wants to portray a particular image and have the horses in his care, and produced as a product of his program don't get to pick and choose what supplements they do or do not get (for the most part).



  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jul. 27, 2006
    Posts
    484

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    Quote Originally Posted by FairWeather View Post
    If it's anything like the upper level barns I'm familiar with, the horses are all in a very particular program--and ALL of them in the barn are in the program. That includes the top of the line feed, hay and supplements. Many barns feed Ulcerguard and Succeed *DAILY*, most of them are on Adequan or something simliar. They get seen by a sporthorse vet to jog *weekly*. Among other things, care at that level costs a LOT of money. My bet is that the dry stalls cost 350$ or so a month, and the care/feeding/supplements/etc costs close to 1K. A professional who wants to portray a particular image and have the horses in his care, and produced as a product of his program don't get to pick and choose what supplements they do or do not get (for the most part).
    Are you talking about Eventing barns? Been to a lot of upper level barns, never has any provided you with the features you are speaking of without you paying for each and every thing you mentioned. That being said, love Boyd.



  5. #105
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2000
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    Now In the Sandhills, NC mostly
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    6,769

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    That's my point--that is probably what it costs to have your horse in the program recommended by Boyd.



  6. #106
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2003
    Location
    Unionville,Pa
    Posts
    1,954

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    the economics of the horse business in the US is different than in the EU. At least on the 2 coasts it is expensive to run an operation.
    In general,in all fields of endeavor,the USA now lags behind countries with social democratic governments in terms of providing opportunity for citizens to "make it to the top"/work their way up/rise from a low to an upper SES (social economic status). There has been recent research on this.The US is more and more a land of rich and not rich,and those "classes" are becoming pretty rigid with little opportunity for upward mobility. Working student position economics reflect this structural reality.



  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2008
    Location
    Nowhere, Maryland
    Posts
    3,168

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    Quote Originally Posted by FairWeather View Post
    That's my point--that is probably what it costs to have your horse in the program recommended by Boyd.
    Pretty sure supplements, Adequan etc. are in addition to, not included. Most barns bill for them separately, not as part of the regular daily charge.



  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2005
    Location
    Unionville, PA
    Posts
    3,545

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    Well, the position has been filled.

    http://boydandsilvamartin.blogspot.c...mber-erin.html
    Delaware Park Canter Volunteer
    http://www.canterusa.org/



  9. #109
    Join Date
    May. 26, 2011
    Posts
    1,149

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    The ad is honest about what the position is and isn't. If I had a kid that said they wanted to do it, I would advise them against it. If you can afford the WS position, you can afford to just pay the trainer for the lessons. That would seem to be a better deal from my viewpoint.

    WS position just seem to be a way for trainers to cut costs but that might be the jaded part of me showing.



  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2003
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    Unionville,Pa
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    another point on those running the numbers. I bet those actually employed at the barn are earning twice minimum wage.



  11. #111
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2011
    Posts
    414

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    "Note from blog administrator: Erin is a teenage girl. Considering the tone of previous comments, please think before posting and keep your comments respectful. -AMH"


    YOU DARE TRY TO SILENCE US?

    That is how things like the Arab Spring come about...
    And this is the story of your red right ankle.



  12. #112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by catosis View Post
    "Note from blog administrator: Erin is a teenage girl. Considering the tone of previous comments, please think before posting and keep your comments respectful. -AMH"


    YOU DARE TRY TO SILENCE US?

    That is how things like the Arab Spring come about...
    Oh for God's sake, lighten up! This is a working student position, not world peace.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2010
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    at the edge of reason
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    324

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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    The ad is honest about what the position is and isn't. If I had a kid that said they wanted to do it, I would advise them against it. If you can afford the WS position, you can afford to just pay the trainer for the lessons. That would seem to be a better deal from my viewpoint.

    WS position just seem to be a way for trainers to cut costs but that might be the jaded part of me showing.
    But the WS position would teach a kid about hard work. I find just participating in lesson programs doesn't instill the same work ethic and horsemanship principles as a WS position would get. IME, this is where I find a lot of disconnect in between good and not so good professionals.
    You know you're a horse person when your mother, who has no grandchildren, gets cards addressed to Grandma, signed by the horses, cats, and dogs.



  14. #114
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2008
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    Berkshire & Surrey
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonyGal08 View Post
    But the WS position would teach a kid about hard work. I find just participating in lesson programs doesn't instill the same work ethic and horsemanship principles as a WS position would get. IME, this is where I find a lot of disconnect in between good and not so good professionals.
    Not just that, but there are SO many skills that simply wouldn't be put into a lesson programme that you learn as a WS - and the myriad of learning opportunities that you can jump on as a WS often aren't there if you are simply a client. Things like assisting the vet come to mind; you can learn SO much from things like that.



  15. #115
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
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    7,246

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    Also keep in mind that the WS will presumably get to meet people (Boyd's clients) who CAN just write a $1500 check for board, then pay Boyd to ride, show, etc.... Those people do not grow on trees and a few years down the road if you wants to go pro, those are the people you want to remember you fondly for taking such good care of Pookie!

    Jennifer



  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2008
    Posts
    148

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    Quote Originally Posted by PonyGal08 View Post
    But the WS position would teach a kid about hard work. I find just participating in lesson programs doesn't instill the same work ethic and horsemanship principles as a WS position would get. IME, this is where I find a lot of disconnect in between good and not so good professionals.
    I do agree with this. There's a lot to be said for learning to work hard. Sincere good wishes to the person who has accepted the position.



  17. #117
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    12,692

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    Quote Originally Posted by PonyGal08 View Post
    But the WS position would teach a kid about hard work. I find just participating in lesson programs doesn't instill the same work ethic and horsemanship principles as a WS position would get. IME, this is where I find a lot of disconnect in between good and not so good professionals.

    Actually, this should and typically is taught by parents long before a child ever gets to the barn. It is certainly not taught in any WS program that I've ever seen---to survive, the WS should long ago have learned about hard work.

    Also, I can remember spending all day at the barn. Mucking stalls, cleaning
    tack, sweeping, de-cobwebbing, grooming, watching lessons and watching the vet and farrier etc. It is what we did as "lesson" kids. We spent as much
    time as we could at the barn learning everything we could from good horsemen even when we really didn't know what that meant. No one
    needs a WS position, they just need the desire and good role
    models. But I think a WS position can be useful.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Nov. 26, 2011 at 06:36 PM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  18. #118
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2002
    Location
    Delaplane, VA, USA
    Posts
    906

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    Congratulations to Erin on her great opportunity! As a teenager, I had the good fortune to spend several years as a working student for Victor Hugo-Vidal in his heyday at Cedar Lodge Farm. Worked like a slave, made no money, Dad paid board for my horse and I worked off my lessons. While I moved from that world to eventing in my early 20s, what I had a chance to learn being in that program still stands me in good stead every day in my life with horses. It was a privilege, an honor and a gift. I learned a level of horsemanship I have tried to build on for the next 30 odd years. It was a long time ago but it was still the making of me in very many ways. Those of you who don't get it...just don't get it...
    Last edited by kt-rose; Nov. 26, 2011 at 08:11 PM.
    Kate



  19. #119

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by kt-rose View Post
    Congratulations to Erin on her great opportunity! As a teenager, I had the good fortune to spend several years as a working student for Victor Hugo-Vidal in his heyday at Cedar Lodge Farm. Worked like a slave, made no money, Dad paid board for my horse and I worked off my lessons. While I moved from that world to eventing in my early 20s, what I had a chance to learn being in that program still stands me in good stead every day in my life with horses. It was a privilege, an honor and a gift. I learned a level of horsemanship I have tried to build on for the next 30 odd years. It was a long time ago but it was still the making of me in very many ways. Those of you who don't get...just don't get it...
    :-)



  20. #120
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2010
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    at the edge of reason
    Posts
    324

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    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    Actually, this should and typically is taught by parents long before a child ever gets to the barn. It is certainly not taught in any WS program that I've ever seen---to survive, the WS should long ago have learned about hard work.

    Also, I can remember spending all day at the barn. Mucking stalls, cleaning
    tack, sweeping, de-cobwebbing, grooming, watching lessons and watching the vet and farrier etc. It is what we did as "lesson" kids. We spent as much
    time as we could at the barn learning everything we could from good horsemen even when we really didn't know what that meant. No one
    needs a WS position, they just need the desire and good role
    models. But I think a WS position can be useful.
    I agree it should. That's another tell tale sign. *Generally* the kids *I* *know* (not all) that only participate in a BNT lesson program and don't really have exposure to all other areas of horsemanship, usually didn't have a very good work ethic to begin with.
    You know you're a horse person when your mother, who has no grandchildren, gets cards addressed to Grandma, signed by the horses, cats, and dogs.



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