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  1. #1
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    Default Doggytude--sort of a spinoff?

    OK, so there is another thread on fire about dog who is going potty in the house and it started out as "the dog does this in anger", though everyone else read into it that it was really a fear thing. Sorry, I was skimming posts, failed to read that this happened when being disciplined. Anyway, finally to my point...
    I initially sort of chuckled, because my brother's Doberman, who is a super-princess (and I have found many dobermans think of themselves this way) once needed a place to stay while he went out of town and I took her to my house for a week, and no kidding, she squatted down and pooped right in front of me in my kitchen. And shot me this look of complete defiance "hmpf, what do you think of THEM apples?", (this was after I demanded she get off the couch she knew she was not allowed on). She's done this to several other people too, she's really a pretty sweet dog, but has one human she will listen to (my brother) and she's SO spoiled! My own GSD was very one person oriented, but I always thought at least when she was young that she was very sensitive to your tone of voice. I worried like crazy when my father was ill and a friend took her for a few weeks that her harsh tone would be tough, only to find that the dog completely tuned her out and didn't listen to a word she said, and after that would employ selective hearing to anyone else who bugged her.
    Anyway, was wondering if any of you dog people would have fun bringing up your funny moments where your dog cocked an attitude that, even if it made you want to shake them, made you chuckle at the same time?



  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitney159 View Post
    Anyway, was wondering if any of you dog people would have fun bringing up your funny moments where your dog cocked an attitude that, even if it made you want to shake them, made you chuckle at the same time?
    Oh yes. My first Corgi used to roll the water bucket around when she could not reach to the bottom. Unfortunately, sometimes there was an inch or so of water in it. She never did this to be naughty, she just needed a drink and it was a sure-fire way to make me get up!



  3. #3
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    Dogs are intelligent animals with emotions and personalities. They are all so different in the way they handle stress, discipline, training, fear, socialization, etc....

    But I do not believe that dogs do things out of spite or anger or just to get a rise out of humans, and they certainly don't have a clue what a "princess" is or how it relates to them. Spite and anger are human emotions that you cannot assign to animals.

    Animals REACT. When confronted with new people, new situations, new training techniques, new food...they can behave in uncharacteristic ways.

    You are "assuming" the Dobie pooped on your kitchen floor to show you that she's the princess, and that she is going to assert her dominance and attitude on you.

    However you need to realize that the dog was taken from her home and given to you for a week so she was in an entirely different and new situation. She was undoubtedly stressed and probably a little afraid. When dogs are stressed, they often do things that they would not do in their normal at-home environment.

    One time my hound pooped 3 times in my inlaws' house while we were visiting. 3 times! The dog never had an accident at home a day in his life. He could hold it all day long. But he was stressed. He probably smelled where a dog had gone there before and he was confused - "This smell tells me to GO HERE. Is this the bathroom???" These people had owned dogs for years, so there were definitely accidents in the house over the years.

    I don't for a minute believe he was trying to spite us or assert his dominance or authority. He was just confused, stressed, and acting as an animal is prone to act when confronted with such a situation.

    Nobody thinks a THING about a horse that starts pooping the minute he sees the horse trailer. Or a horse that poops 12 times in the show ring during a 6 minute class because he's nervous. But a dog is plucked out of her home and dropped off at an unfamiliar home with unfamiliar people and smells and sights and sounds, and she has an accident on the floor and it's "spite" because she's "just being a princess?" If that's really what you think, you need to pick up Patricia McConnell's books. They are very good and you will learn a lot.

    We joke about our Weimaraner being a princess because she hates getting her toes wet, she's always cold, she is very vocal and forceful about what she wants, and she is an extremely sensitive dog. But the dog isn't behaving this way to try to prove to us that she's special or that she's royalty. It's just her innate personality and tendencies. She's not a easy going, blubbery, happy labrador. She is very reserved and demanding. But I don't believe she makes a choice to be this way. It's just the genes she was born with.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    One time my hound pooped 3 times in my inlaws' house while we were visiting. 3 times! The dog never had an accident at home a day in his life. He could hold it all day long. But he was stressed. He probably smelled where a dog had gone there before and he was confused - "This smell tells me to GO HERE. Is this the bathroom???" These people had owned dogs for years, so there were definitely accidents in the house over the years.
    and remember, stress will speed all body functions up, so pooping happens suddenly and more frequently for a stressed dog. Think about those horses who get hypervigilant and you get stressy loose bm's.



  5. #5
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    Oh yes, our GSD-x has enough attitude for a whole pack of dogs.

    He will eat anything and we don't have enough time to keep our eyes on him so we have a babygate that blocks the kitchen and dining room. The gate is open if there is someone in the kitchen or living room and then when we go back through the gate he knows that he is expected to follow so we can close it. Days when he is feel particularly obnoxious he will go the opposite direction and walk circles around the living room table. Usually if you walk around to the far side of the table and use your stern voice he will go through the gate. If he is feeling stubborn he will attempt to get you to chase him around the table until he gets tired, or until you get frustrated and tell him he has to go through the gate. Some days I chase him because he is such a fatty he could use some more exercise



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveTheOtters View Post
    Oh yes, our GSD-x has enough attitude for a whole pack of dogs.

    He will eat anything and we don't have enough time to keep our eyes on him so we have a babygate that blocks the kitchen and dining room. The gate is open if there is someone in the kitchen or living room and then when we go back through the gate he knows that he is expected to follow so we can close it. Days when he is feel particularly obnoxious he will go the opposite direction and walk circles around the living room table. Usually if you walk around to the far side of the table and use your stern voice he will go through the gate. If he is feeling stubborn he will attempt to get you to chase him around the table until he gets tired, or until you get frustrated and tell him he has to go through the gate. Some days I chase him because he is such a fatty he could use some more exercise
    It would be FAR easier and more effective for you to use positive reinforcement to teach the dog that going through gate = great yummy treat! Use cubes of dried liver or some other great treat like baked chicken skin.

    Start by getting a whole handful of the treat. Let him see and smell what you have so he is interested. Establish of pattern of saying the dog's name and giving a key command (example: Buddy, come!) Use a nice happy, sing-songy voice. The minute he takes a step toward you, reward him immediately with the treat. Repeat until he will "come" with you through the gate. When he gets to the other side of the gate, make a big deal out of it and give him a whole handful of treats. Make him realize that when he gets on the other side of that gate, manna from heaven pours down on him.

    It will take a very short time (maybe only a couple of days) for your dog to realize that when you summon him to Come! that he will be rewarded lavishly. Keep up the rewards for a couple of weeks, and then gradually decrease it. Only give the treat every other time he goes through the gate, then every 3 times, then every 5 times, until a new behavioral pattern is established.

    Chasing the dog around a table and yelling at him is not an effective way to fix this problem.

    This is exactly how I trained my big black dog to go out on the porch to his kennel every morning when I leave for work. He had NO interest in leaving his warm couch curled up beside his two buddies. He had to learn that kennel = great treats!

    What you are calling ATTITUDE, is just the dog being afraid of your "stern voice" and chasing him! Good grief. What would YOU do if your boss started yelling at you and chasing you down the hall shaking his fist at you? It would scare the crap out of you. You'd think the guy went nuts and that you better get away from him because he's crazy.

    In a pack situation, the dog who gets agitated, hyper, yelpy, and twitchy is the one that others look out for! That is the one that is not to be trusted. That is the one that the other pack members want to stay away from. The dog they look to as their leader is the calm, stoic one with the balanced mind and determined energy. The one yapping and flapping around like a fool is going to get no respect from the rest of the pack.

    If the dog is apprehensive of your yelling and chasing, he is never going to follow you through that gate on his own accord. Sure, he may eventually break and run for the gate just to get away from you, but fear is not the way to train a dog.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    It would be FAR easier and more effective for you to use positive reinforcement to teach the dog that going through gate = great yummy treat! Use cubes of dried liver or some other great treat like baked chicken skin.

    Start by getting a whole handful of the treat. Let him see and smell what you have so he is interested. Establish of pattern of saying the dog's name and giving a key command (example: Buddy, come!) Use a nice happy, sing-songy voice. The minute he takes a step toward you, reward him immediately with the treat. Repeat until he will "come" with you through the gate. When he gets to the other side of the gate, make a big deal out of it and give him a whole handful of treats. Make him realize that when he gets on the other side of that gate, manna from heaven pours down on him.

    It will take a very short time (maybe only a couple of days) for your dog to realize that when you summon him to Come! that he will be rewarded lavishly. Keep up the rewards for a couple of weeks, and then gradually decrease it. Only give the treat every other time he goes through the gate, then every 3 times, then every 5 times, until a new behavioral pattern is established.

    Chasing the dog around a table and yelling at him is not an effective way to fix this problem.

    This is exactly how I trained my big black dog to go out on the porch to his kennel every morning when I leave for work. He had NO interest in leaving his warm couch curled up beside his two buddies. He had to learn that kennel = great treats!

    What you are calling ATTITUDE, is just the dog being afraid of your "stern voice" and chasing him! Good grief. What would YOU do if your boss started yelling at you and chasing you down the hall shaking his fist at you? It would scare the crap out of you. You'd think the guy went nuts and that you better get away from him because he's crazy.

    In a pack situation, the dog who gets agitated, hyper, yelpy, and twitchy is the one that others look out for! That is the one that is not to be trusted. That is the one that the other pack members want to stay away from. The dog they look to as their leader is the calm, stoic one with the balanced mind and determined energy. The one yapping and flapping around like a fool is going to get no respect from the rest of the pack.

    If the dog is apprehensive of your yelling and chasing, he is never going to follow you through that gate on his own accord. Sure, he may eventually break and run for the gate just to get away from you, but fear is not the way to train a dog.

    1. he is not my dog, he is my parents dog, and i don't live with him.

    2. I don't yell him and chase him in a "mean, when i get you im gonna punish you way" its a game. When he goes to the far side of the table, he howls at you and play bows, he doesn't cower. If you ignore him and go about your business he will go through the gate on his own accord because he just wants to hang out with you anyways (unless theres something in the kitchen he actually wants but then he just stays in the kitchen). I never punish him when I catch him either, We play for a few more minutes and he will follow me through the gate anyways. if you met the dog or were present for the situation than that might be easier to understand.

    3. I don't use an angry voice, I do use a 'stern' voice, and I don't scream (or yell and scream and shake my fist) at him I use the command that he knows which is "Duma Go" and then I point towards the gate. The game only begins if he doesn't follow through the gate immediately (before any sort of go or come command, both of which he knows.)

    4. I didn't say it was a problem, you assumed that he misbehaves. I said he knows he is expected to follow, not that we stand on the other side of the gate, use his come command and then he responds poorly. He is an adolescent dog and sometimes he would just rather not do what he knows he expected to do, those are the days that you say "come" or "go" depending on the side of the gate you are on, which he responds to. And some days he just wants to play, and I respond by playing with him (because he could use the exercise).



  8. #8
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    At least half of our dogs will push the huge heavy ceramic water bowl towards the living room when it's empty. The smaller ones are 15 and 30 lbs and they push the bowl with all their might. We hear a shove, then the dog will trot over to the living room, look at us, trot back to bowl and give it another shove...

    My Schnoodle1 also has quite the attitude. He's friendly, sweet and adorable to the new people... But he can be a bitch to the people he knows well. People are shocked to hear her cannot have anything special... We have to follow the nothing in life is free approach for him, or he's growly and punky to us. But if he has to work for treats, listen and wait for permission up on the chair, etc,... Then he's a happy lil camper!



  9. #9
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    Kind of not the same, but . . .
    My old guy passed away last winter, so I love to tell stories about him. Once we had people playing video games, with cords going every which way. He walked by to get water and unplugged the cords, and there was a whole chorus of, "Oh, no!" He got his drink and headed back the same way - and very carefully lifted each foot over the cords while watching everyone's expression. So cute, and it taught me that sometimes they "get" things you wouldn't think they would.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitney159 View Post
    I initially sort of chuckled, because my brother's Doberman, who is a super-princess (and I have found many dobermans think of themselves this way) once needed a place to stay while he went out of town and I took her to my house for a week, and no kidding, she squatted down and pooped right in front of me in my kitchen. And shot me this look of complete defiance "hmpf, what do you think of THEM apples?", (this was after I demanded she get off the couch she knew she was not allowed on).
    Maybe, instead of thinking to herself "hmpf, what do you think of THEM apples", she was thinking "Jesus, I've done everything but write a note to tell this idiot that I have to potty, and she STILL ignores me".

    We humans do dogs a huge disservice when we attribute non-doggy emotions to them. They don't think in terms of spite, so why would we want to attribute that negative emotion to them?
    Sheilah



  11. #11
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    I always regret teaching my flattie tricks. They always seem to come back to bite me the a$$. Like the time I taught him the trick "beer me". He'd run to the fridge, open the door (lead rope tied to the handle), grab a beer, close the door and bring it to me. Beauty, right? Until one night at 3am I heard the fridge creaking open reeeallly slowly. I freaked, thinking it was someone who'd broken in. Grabbed my golf club and ninja'ed out to the kitchen...only to see my dog helping himself to a midnight snack. He heard me mutter 'what the hell?', turned around, wagged his tail, got me a beer, and then finished eating the deli meat he'd been helping himself to. I ended up taking the lead rope off the fridge but he learned to open it with his muzzle. My food had to be in tupperware containers in the fridge for a month before he stopped opening it on his own.

    Or the time I taught him to pick up all the pens on the floor in the office I worked in. They'd fall behind desks, get left in the kitchen, whatever. He caught on and found every pen on the floor within a day. Then he started lifting them off the desks and bringing them to me. Finally, one day he was looking for pens but he'd cleared them all out so i thought we were done with that trick...all of a sudden he appears in my office with a pen in his mouth and a coworker right behind him. He had very gently STOLEN the pen right out of my coworker's hand.

    Mail or books aren't safe either. Taught him to deliver file folders, books, or mail to people at the office once he knew them by name. Then it turned into delivering every paper object he could find...and then it started happening at home. He'd take books and magazines right out of hands. Ripped a newspaper in two when he grabbed it a little over-enthusiastically. All books, letters, magazines, etc. had to be hidden away not left anywhere within dog reach.

    I'd like to say I learned my lesson but I haven't. Last night I taught him to get his leash. Since then, he's been running to the kitchen, getting his leash, and then running into the living room with it...absolutely filled with pride. Then he takes it back out to the kitchen and stares at me (because that's where the cookies are). he's brought me his leash at least a dozen times this evening alone.

    But, he doesn't do any of these things "out of spite". He's smart and he loves having a "job" so I try to give him as many jobs as possible to keep him mentally entertained. Going over and above what I teach him? He's really smart. Most times smarter than me.



  12. #12
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    Why is everyone being so MEAN! It must be the holiday season starting!
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by threedogpack View Post
    and remember, stress will speed all body functions up, so pooping happens suddenly and more frequently for a stressed dog. Think about those horses who get hypervigilant and you get stressy loose bm's.
    My dog is a nervous pooper. She's quite good about coming with me to visit friends and family (with permission, of course), but I do have to make sure to give her a chance to poop outside before we go in the first time. Otherwise she'll whine and have to go out again to poop as soon as we get inside.

    Now my old cat, Tita, she could be a revenge pee-er. She was actually really good about using the litterbox until something made her mad. I'm not sure what the appropriate emotion would be in cat terms, but if something ticked her off, she'd pee on something in a most dramatic fashion. Once I came home from vacation and she immediately ran up to me, hopped up on my luggage, looked me in the eye, and peed all over my suitcase.

    Another time a rather unpleasant house guest awoke to find dear Tita peeing on her pillow Though really, I have to say that I agreed with her assessment of that particular acquaintance.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OTV View Post
    Or the time I taught him to pick up all the pens on the floor in the office I worked in. They'd fall behind desks, get left in the kitchen, whatever. He caught on and found every pen on the floor within a day. Then he started lifting them off the desks and bringing them to me. Finally, one day he was looking for pens but he'd cleared them all out so i thought we were done with that trick...all of a sudden he appears in my office with a pen in his mouth and a coworker right behind him. He had very gently STOLEN the pen right out of my coworker's hand.
    this is hysterical!



  15. #15
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    Auventera Two I read this thread as more of a "ha ha tell your funny experiences" then a "please give me unsolicited training advice."

    Savetheotters: I have a dog that sounds a lot like your parents dog. He is a wheaten and not terribly bright (and before someone yells "anthropomorphism" he is a very very very slow learner and easily confused). One of the few things he has learned is that if he sits in the back yard and barks, someone comes outside to tell him to shush. Some days he runs straight outside, sits, and barks knowing that someone will come outside. The minute the door opens he wags his tail and looks at you and then the yard and then takes off running. He certainly is not barking out of fear or anxiety or any nonsense like that. He has learned my button and gleefully pushes it when he wants to play.


    This same dog also refuses to come inside at least once a week until you chase him around the backyard. All of the treats in the world won't get him back outside nor will shutting the door and trying to wait him out (he has sat out there for over a hour in the dark before). Its easier to just toss on some flip flops and chase him around a couple of times. After 4 or 5 laps he bounces up to the door and is ready to come inside.

    I honestly don't mind if my dogs misbehave to a point. I am blessed with really really great animals that understand what boundaries are set in stone and which ones are okay to push on occasion. I would feel differently if I had a dog that was pushy, aggressive, or anxious but all of mine are just normal, happy, relaxed dogs. Maybe I am just a crazy animal person who gives in to anthropomorphism but I do think my animals like to have fun sometimes.

    And because these threads are useless without pictures:

    Back in 05: http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...g/05jul042.jpg

    All grown up: http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...omerOct061.jpg



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    Dogs are intelligent animals with emotions and personalities. They are all so different in the way they handle stress, discipline, training, fear, socialization, etc....

    But I do not believe that dogs do things out of spite or anger or just to get a rise out of humans, and they certainly don't have a clue what a "princess" is or how it relates to them. Spite and anger are human emotions that you cannot assign to animals.

    Animals REACT. When confronted with new people, new situations, new training techniques, new food...they can behave in uncharacteristic ways.

    You are "assuming" the Dobie pooped on your kitchen floor to show you that she's the princess, and that she is going to assert her dominance and attitude on you.

    However you need to realize that the dog was taken from her home and given to you for a week so she was in an entirely different and new situation. She was undoubtedly stressed and probably a little afraid. When dogs are stressed, they often do things that they would not do in their normal at-home environment.

    One time my hound pooped 3 times in my inlaws' house while we were visiting. 3 times! The dog never had an accident at home a day in his life. He could hold it all day long. But he was stressed. He probably smelled where a dog had gone there before and he was confused - "This smell tells me to GO HERE. Is this the bathroom???" These people had owned dogs for years, so there were definitely accidents in the house over the years.

    I don't for a minute believe he was trying to spite us or assert his dominance or authority. He was just confused, stressed, and acting as an animal is prone to act when confronted with such a situation.

    Nobody thinks a THING about a horse that starts pooping the minute he sees the horse trailer. Or a horse that poops 12 times in the show ring during a 6 minute class because he's nervous. But a dog is plucked out of her home and dropped off at an unfamiliar home with unfamiliar people and smells and sights and sounds, and she has an accident on the floor and it's "spite" because she's "just being a princess?" If that's really what you think, you need to pick up Patricia McConnell's books. They are very good and you will learn a lot.

    We joke about our Weimaraner being a princess because she hates getting her toes wet, she's always cold, she is very vocal and forceful about what she wants, and she is an extremely sensitive dog. But the dog isn't behaving this way to try to prove to us that she's special or that she's royalty. It's just her innate personality and tendencies. She's not a easy going, blubbery, happy labrador. She is very reserved and demanding. But I don't believe she makes a choice to be this way. It's just the genes she was born with.
    Great post.



  17. #17
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    One time I was at an event with my dog Scooter and talking to some people, and this woman who was known for being rather snobby literally stepped in front of me while I was mid-sentence and interrupted me to talk to the other people like I wasn't even there. It was so rude I was at a loss for words for a moment but Scooter knew just what to do--he lifted his leg and peed on her. Best dog ever.

    I'm sure it was just a coincidence but it was very satisfying. Also that's the only time in his life he's peed on someone.



  18. #18
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    Look guys, I'm not being "MEAN." I'm just trying to remind people that dogs are not humans. They don't possess many of the emotions and inclinations that we do. They don't poop on your floor and run circles around the dining room table out of spite or anger or an attempt to make your life miserable and difficult.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosMonster View Post
    I'm sure it was just a coincidence but it was very satisfying. Also that's the only time in his life he's peed on someone.
    LOL yes, that would make me laugh too!



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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    Auventera Two I read this thread as more of a "ha ha tell your funny experiences" then a "please give me unsolicited training advice."
    that's what I thought it was as well.



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