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  1. #1
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    Default Which John Lyons DVDs/books?

    Years ago I worked for a lady who centered her entire program around John Lyons. She had the manual and lots of symposium tapes that I read and watched and I got quite a lot out of them.

    Fast forward to now and I've been wishing I had those to reference now and then. Specifically for ground work in a round pen and starting horses.

    A quick ebay search on "John Lyons" makes it pretty clear that the video options have changed quite a bit from the VHS tapes of various symposiums.

    SO what would one recommend to buy of his?

    The ground control manual?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Lyons-H...item35b63fe731

    Best Start for your unbroke horse?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-John-Lyo...item35b3ee6c08



  2. #2
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    Default

    I might have recommend buying at one time, but sold the complete set a long time ago. I had the old bound books.

    Lyons clicks for a few, I'd say save your money.
    Last edited by 7HL; Nov. 21, 2011 at 03:06 PM.



  3. #3
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    Default

    I've watched quite a few....Lyons, Buck, Clinton, and many of the trainers on RFD TV....Lyon's older stuff really clicked for me...not sure if the newer stuff became too commercialized to be worth while?

    If not....then who would you recommend?



  4. #4
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    Jul. 15, 2003
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    Default

    John is in the process of retiring, and at Equine Affaire a few weeks ago they were selling the Ground Control and Riding manuals for $75 each. These are the newer sprial bound books, rather than the binders. Don't know if that price is also available on the website (johnlyons.com). I haven't looked at the Best Start.

    I don't think that John has changed his methods much, at least with regard to what he did at the clinics at EA. I didn't see the session on starting a young horse, but did go to the rest of them. The "spooky horse" session was packed, with people sitting on the floor, and 4 deep standing on the open side of the arena. He has changed the order in which you do things, for example putting a young horse in a bridle for ground work before you back him. That way he will have only the saddle to deal with and not the bit and rein cues also. But as far as what you are actually doing, it hasn't really changed much. Plenty of people still successfully use the original manuals.

    I've always been a big fan of John. No fancy equipment needed, just a halter (web) and a dressage whip (an extension of your hand). He is so focused and quiet and it's impressive what he does with a horse without the drama. I saw another "BNT" at Equine Affaire who was hitting the horse in the face and head with a whip as part of a session on "making a brave horse." Needless to say, he is on my list of "seen them, won't ever go again" and he does have company on that list.

    I'd look at the website first, and see what is out there at what price, before going to ebay. Also watch out for the videos of the symposiums in the 1990s. They had a big problem with people making copies and selling them as the real thing.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walktrot View Post
    John is in the process of retiring, and at Equine Affaire a few weeks ago they were selling the Ground Control and Riding manuals for $75 each. These are the newer sprial bound books, rather than the binders. Don't know if that price is also available on the website (johnlyons.com). I haven't looked at the Best Start.
    Thanks for the tip, looks like I missed out on a deal, the prices are still the same on the website, and best on ebay, through an authorized dealer....again thank you for the tip to watch for copies/copiers.



  6. #6
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    Default

    I like Bringing Up Baby, but as for his other DVDs and Books - I honestly don't even remember the names of the ones I have. A friend gave them to me. Most of the JL training info I know is what I have learned off his online discussion board. However in recent years it has slowed WAY down and sadly there isn't much discussion there anymore. I also subscribed to his magazine for probably 4 or 5 years, though I don't currently receive it anymore. I would highly recommend the magazine!

    Of all the "natural horsemanship" type trainers, I like JL's techniques the best.



  7. #7
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    Default

    A friend gave me a copy of the book "Lyons on Horses" and I actually read it - found it to be refreshingly full of common sense horsemanship instead of expecting me to play games/tricks with my horses. Also, while my sister is a huge CA fan, I cannot listen to that voice! So I cannot speak to anything he teaches.

    I liked his approach as it was very similar to the horsemanship I was taught as a kid.

    I don't care for most others as I think they are too busy hawking gadgets, but I did like that book by him. FWIW.
    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post

    Give it up. Many of us CoTHers are trapped at a computer all day with no way out, and we hunt in packs. So far it as all been in good fun. You should be thankful for that.



  8. #8
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    Default

    I used to work for a lady who had a binder full of old Perfect Horse issues. She didn't need or want them anymore, so she gave them to me.

    Can't say I've read them all cover to cover, but every once in a while I'll flip through them. I also bought his trail riding book several years ago at Equine Affaire, just to have on hand as a reference, but there's nothing about it that I find astonishing.

    Still, JL is one of the big-name clinicians I still have some respect for because he isn't out there slapping new names on common-sense concepts and marketing them as his own inventions.
    Please copy and paste this to your signature if you know someone, or have been affected by someone who needs a smack upside the head. Lets raise awareness.



  9. #9
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    Jul. 2, 2011
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    Default

    Have seen him a number of times years ago, one of the best if not the best. If you can get his old tapes they are very worthwhile and easy to understand.
    Sorry to hear he is retiring, his horse Bright Zip was a wonder to watch.



  10. #10
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    May. 5, 2000
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    Default

    John is one of the best.

    Most of the others are more about marketing their gadgets and such than the horse.



  11. #11
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    Apr. 26, 2010
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    Default

    John's the best in the business, but starting about 1997 or 1998 he became pretty commercial. If you can get pre-1997 stuff, it's solid without glitz.



  12. #12
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    Default

    I think John has gone back to what he was before Perfect Horse became another ad mag. I subscribed to PH for a few years, and just recently began to copy the articles I liked and put them in a binder.

    it's a big binder and it's filling up fast.

    The only reason I don't subscribe to PH now, is because I don't want the mags lying around. I would absolutely do it if it came in an e-format.



  13. #13
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    Default

    If you can only buy one I would highly recommend "The ground control manual." It would be a great refresher of John's methods.

    It covers everything from ground work, round penning, intro of tack to the third ride.

    Wonderful horse trainer and human teacher. His focus is on giving the tools needed for both the horse and person to succeed. (not just buy his magic stick)

    Agreed he can be long winded but that is also called thorough.



  14. #14
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    Default

    I had the opportunity to see the spooky horse session at EA. Man, I'll take the bay he got on halfway through the session .

    My trainer studied under him a looong time ago. It was dejavue all over again.

    Hubby was impressed when he climbed from the back of one horse over to the other. HOW old is he???



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pds View Post
    J
    Most of the others are more about marketing their gadgets and such than the horse.
    They ALL market items. Some sell there name, even John. From John Lyons feed to even a John Lyons Tom Thumb Bit sold though TSC, when he was saying only use a snaffle publically. Perfect Horse (his signature magazine at one time) sold ads to almost anyone with the money. He like others wear sponsors shirts with names prominant. And lets not forget John Lyons round pens.

    I have no trouble in trainers selling stuff. They do what they can to support themselves, a family and keep a business running. Horses for the most part are a luxury item. When the economy goes south or people need to tighten up their budget the last thing they start spending money on is horses. Trainers get creative.

    Early John Lyons was great. Starting, as mentioned 98-2000. The program, the website and the promotions, he jumped in with all the other trainers. He became just one of many. His RFD-TV stuff was very hard to watch. He threw in preaching into the mix. Maybe that's why it only lasted 1 year.

    Some of the early hardbound books are good. They are hard to find.



  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by colorfan View Post
    If you can only buy one I would highly recommend "The ground control manual." It would be a great refresher of John's methods.
    Thanks for the suggestion on the book, it sounds like it hasn't changed all that much from when I was reading it in the late 90's.

    Has anyone watched/owned the "Best start for your unbroke horse" DVDs?

    I don't have a VCR, so getting old tapes isn't an option. (can you even buy a VCR anymore?)



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53 View Post
    I don't have a VCR, so getting old tapes isn't an option. (can you even buy a VCR anymore?)
    I have seen a few around, some with a dvd player/recorder, so you could make your own discs.



  18. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    They ALL market items. Some sell there name, even John. From John Lyons feed to even a John Lyons Tom Thumb Bit sold though TSC, when he was saying only use a snaffle publically. Perfect Horse (his signature magazine at one time) sold ads to almost anyone with the money. He like others wear sponsors shirts with names prominant. And lets not forget John Lyons round pens.

    I have no trouble in trainers selling stuff. They do what they can to support themselves, a family and keep a business running. Horses for the most part are a luxury item. When the economy goes south or people need to tighten up their budget the last thing they start spending money on is horses. Trainers get creative.

    Early John Lyons was great. Starting, as mentioned 98-2000. The program, the website and the promotions, he jumped in with all the other trainers. He became just one of many. His RFD-TV stuff was very hard to watch. He threw in preaching into the mix. Maybe that's why it only lasted 1 year.

    Some of the early hardbound books are good. They are hard to find.

    7HL, you forgot to mention the discussion board that you were thrown off of. It has always been free. No "membership" dues required. Manners? Yes. Unfortunately it is closing at the end of the month due to John's retirement, but it will be resurrected elsewhere.

    Yes, John has endorsed products, but the Tom Thumb bit was not his. I believe it was made by the company that made the full cheek snaffle he sold and they somehow weaseled their way into saying it was a JL bit. Otherwise he, like others, endorses a few products they really like. My horse (and I) having worked in one of his round pens a number of years ago, I can speak to the much higher quality and safety compared to typical round pen panels. I don't have a problem with him selling bits and bridles and reins, because he never said that you need "my" fancy-schmancy kit including “my” rope halter and some sort of pig stick with a string or a flag on the end. He never claimed that his bridle and reins are some sort of revolutionary development for the new millenium. All you need is a regular old halter and regular old dressage whip, a plain bridle, and a snaffle. And finally, he does not call himself a “natural horsemanship” trainer – what we do with our horses is not “natural.”

    The hardbound “cues” books are still in print. The titles have changed, but they are on the website and they probably are on eBay too, in both printings. The first version of Perfect Horse (newsletter without advertising) was terrific, but became unsustainable because the subscription price was getting to be too high. Thus the second glossy version with advertising and articles that were not strictly “JL.” Some people objected to that and dropped their subscriptions. I didn’t have a problem with it. Unfortunately the publisher was losing money, so they elected to close it down. We were offered refunds or a subscription to another magazine. I happen to be sitting with a substantial cache of both the original PH and the glossy version.

    I was a little put off by little biblical quotes here and there until it occurred to me that reading a few lines from Proverbs wasn’t going to kill me. And I won’t argue with his firm belief that our horses are on loan to us from God, and we need to do our best by them.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by walktrot View Post
    7HL, you forgot to mention the discussion board that you were thrown off of. It has always been free. No "membership" dues required. Manners? Yes. Unfortunately it is closing at the end of the month due to John's retirement, but it will be resurrected elsewhere.
    .
    Still on there???? Different name. Tons of people got banned and thrown off. Even one of his Certified Trainers got thrown off. Not allowed to talk about any other trainers, clinicians or methods. And don't insult Terry. The discussion forum ruined John Lyons for many people. It's about time they close it ALL down. Many of the JL Trainers are all standing on their own doing well.


    Recently created by a member because board is closing.
    http://johnlyonsdiscussions.proboards.com
    With John's retiring has also come the decision that this board will close.


    The date for closing is dec 1st.

    John has endorsed products, but the Tom Thumb bit was not his. I believe it was made by the company that made the full cheek snaffle he sold and they somehow weaseled their way into saying it was a JL bit.
    It was his, I have one that was clearanced out when TSC discontinued selling al John Lyons bits. That bit was being sold for some time along with all the other bits with his name and signature on it. It was never pulled until they all went. It's no big deal, there was nothing wrong with the bit.

    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by walktrot View Post
    I was a little put off by little biblical quotes here and there until it occurred to me that reading a few lines from Proverbs wasn’t going to kill me. And I won’t argue with his firm belief that our horses are on loan to us from God, and we need to do our best by them.
    I am a free thinking atheist, but I just ignore the biblical crap that John Lyons preaches. It's a free country and it is his right to say what he chooses. If I don't like it, I don't have to read it or listen to it. He is a great teacher and horseman and if he came about those qualities by a belief in some higher power, then I can accept that and deal with it.



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