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  1. #1
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    Default English tack appraisers?

    Do these professionals exist?

    Any experience with getting your stuff appraised?

    This comes from a discussion with my insurance agent who was just as clueless as I expected. We googled around for this kind of pro and came up empty handed.

    TIA!
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  2. #2
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    I doubt such appraisers exist. However, an established tack store owner with a consignment business would probably be the next closest thing.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com



  3. #3
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    Default

    Or your local saddle-fitter who takes saddles on consignment ?



  4. #4
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    I second the reputable tack store appraisal. After all, they are going to know what your items can sell for BUT also will know what it will cost to REPLACE your item.. you really want replacement value, IMO


    I had a saddle stolen from my truck, called my car insurance and they asked for my reciept..which of course I didnt have but I went to the tack store told them it was my Hermes and they wrote a replacement reciept for me based on the value to get another one.. my insurance accepted that



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Do these professionals exist?

    Any experience with getting your stuff appraised?

    This comes from a discussion with my insurance agent who was just as clueless as I expected. We googled around for this kind of pro and came up empty handed.

    TIA!
    Are you looking to support a claim or just trying to set a level of coverage?

    To support of claim do some "shopping" on the various tack sites and get a range of "asking prices." I'd use the "three estimates" rule. If the company does not like that then they can do their own research and you'll negotiate from there.

    To set the level of coverage list what you've got and do the same thing with new gear. Then make sure you've got "replacement value coverage" for the items.

    G.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Are you looking to support a claim or just trying to set a level of coverage?

    To support of claim do some "shopping" on the various tack sites and get a range of "asking prices." I'd use the "three estimates" rule. If the company does not like that then they can do their own research and you'll negotiate from there.

    To set the level of coverage list what you've got and do the same thing with new gear. Then make sure you've got "replacement value coverage" for the items.

    G.
    No claim yet (thank God), just doing due diligence when buying insurance for this rather specialized and appreciating equipment.

    My questions are about tack bought long ago that was high quality. To replace it now would cost 2X-4X what I paid in yestercentury. That would make an adjuster suspicious, no?

    In some cases, the companies don't exist any more, or you'd have to choose a different maker to have the same quality in the piece of tack.

    Last, some of this was about getting a crazy good deal on an unusual saddle.... that are now only made custom. So "replacement value" would astronomical on this one in comparison to what I paid. But for the price I paid, one would get a POS saddle.

    Also, I want to know if I should become the world's first English tack appraiser. As I explained to Insurance Dude, I know more about this tack, the companies that made it, what happened to them and what is comparable in quality now than most people.

    More about this. Just FYI, tack mavens.

    Insurance Dude and I discussed some examples. Then he said I might want to buy an agreed value policy if I were that worried about it.

    My intent was to ask how to avoid any argument with a tack-ignoramous should I ever have to file a claim.... when I may know more than the tack-ignoramous adjuster but have a conflict of interest as the Insured and appraiser.

    The Dude suggested I deal with a company of theirs that insures collectibles. Those guys said "Nope. This 'usin' tack' can't be insured as an object that merely sits in your living room/museum."

    Insurance Dude did recommend doing what I had done: Keeping a list ('scheduling the items') with receipts if possible. I can do that for some of the saddles; I'll do that for all the other horse stuff I buy in future. Add serial numbers and photographs.

    He also said that if I needed to make some kind of case--- "Bridle made by X Co in 1992 needs to be replaced by bridle made by Y Co in 2011"-- that can be done. I get the impression that if you can document the snot out of what you say, they'll accept it. What tack store owner would want to do this kind of research into recent tack history and changes among the various manufacturers and distributors? Of course, I'd like this job....

    If I learn more, I'll let you guys know.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  7. #7
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    I suspect you would hate the job, if it existed. You'd be forever getting sent round the country, you'd never have a single weekend at home, and half the time you'd arrive at some backwoodsy QH 'breeder', who'd make you stand forever looking at imprisoned broodmares who coulda woulda shoulda won millions if only they hadn't blew their hocks out, and whose sire was poco buen sonny doc bar o'lena 5 times over on both ends, before finally showing you some POS one-off, worthamillion irreplaceable saddle, that was only made once because nobody else wanted it, and they'd got it as an absolute bargain ...

    (trust me, this IS what would happen, and ask me how I know this)



  8. #8
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    Well, fair enough, you could filter them and make them assure you it really was "English" tack before you went.... I still think you'd meet most of the same calibre of tack, almost all of it saddleseat.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateWooten View Post
    I suspect you would hate the job, if it existed. You'd be forever getting sent round the country, you'd never have a single weekend at home, and half the time you'd arrive at some backwoodsy QH 'breeder', who'd make you stand forever looking at imprisoned broodmares who coulda woulda shoulda won millions if only they hadn't blew their hocks out, and whose sire was poco buen sonny doc bar o'lena 5 times over on both ends, before finally showing you some POS one-off, worthamillion irreplaceable saddle, that was only made once because nobody else wanted it, and they'd got it as an absolute bargain ...

    (trust me, this IS what would happen, and ask me how I know this)
    I'd roll with it....if they paid me enough. Funny, all the jobs I want include the requisite meet-n-greet with people before getting down to business. Funny (and not so much), my current job has this, too... but no pretty tack and a people/industry with which I am Just DONE. Oh, yes, and for bad pay.

    My training and proclivities, however, totally qualify me to be a Forensic Tack Historian.

    So how does one go about getting some actual credentials for this?

    Western World-- at least the collector's part of it-- does have some pretty professional looking appraisers. Or maybe these are just people who buy and sell the stuff.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  10. #10
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    I think you'd have to be a self-starter. That's why I also think you'd be run ragged trying to make ends meet - think about how far and wide any generic saddle-fitter has to travel to make a living - and you'd be vastly more specialized than that! So, basically, you'd have to travel the whole entire country. I think in Europe they have their own experts already, so you'd be spared that at least. And everyone and his wife would expect you to come out for free - we're the Antiques Roadshow generation, remember (although I have to laugh at the oxymoron inherent in the US Antiques Roadshow - this in a country where, I kid you not, I visited some 'ancient' (circa 1876) log cabins in the Appalachians, and the whole crew of reasonably intelligent people, without a hint of irony or shame, proclaimed that of course they would have been draughty, but they made the windows small because ... "Glass Hadn't Been Invented Way Back Then" ! Anyone heard of the Romans ? No ? Monty Python then ?). I digress. You would of course have to make these house-calls for free and at your own expense, and be grateful too, to have the privilege of appraising such a work of art, dating back as far as, possibly as far as... ummm... now when was Bob's dad born ?



  11. #11
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    Oct. 26, 2003
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    Maybe you could advise the eBayer who has been advertising a Pariani saddle made in the '60s for $2,450. Uh, similar old saddles like that might bring $50. I have one sitting in my tack room made in the '50s that is in excellent shape - try finding a modern horse that it fits. It's not just humans who have gotten bigger in the past 50 years.



  12. #12
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    MVP, if you can convince an adjuster that saddles and tack appreciate in value I'll be the first contributor to your run for the Presidency!

    You will also make a lot of money being the first Professional Tack Adjuster!!!!!

    To determine the level of coverage you need first you'll need an inventory. Then you'll need to establish either a market value or determine replacement cost.

    Now, read your policy. What kind of coverage will you be buying? "Market value" is cheaper for obvious reasons. It would be up to you to establish this value in the event of a loss. The "three estimate" rule is pretty common. Since there are no "professional tack appraisers" that I'm aware of using advertised values or auction prices (a la e-Bay) would probably have to do. If the company disputes the values then they have to go out and do their own research.

    "Replacement value" is not always what that term says. It's defined in a policy that includes this coverage. It can mean different things when applied to different classes of property (rapidly consumed property like clothing or electronics vs. slowly consumed property like books or furniture). There can be limits so make sure that you find those limits, if they exist. This means reading the policy. I know how boring that is but you have to do it anyway to ensure you buy what you need and don't buy what you don't.

    If you have antiques that do appreciate over time you'll need coverage different from that found in a standard barn/homeowners policy. This coverage can sometimes be had by endorsement. Sometimes it will requier a different policy. This is a fairly specialized business, however.

    Having a good "ballpark" number for your tack is a Very Good Thing. I hope you never have to send it to a claims adjuster!

    G.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateWooten View Post
    I think you'd have to be a self-starter. That's why I also think you'd be run ragged trying to make ends meet - think about how far and wide any generic saddle-fitter has to travel to make a living - and you'd be vastly more specialized than that! So, basically, you'd have to travel the whole entire country. I think in Europe they have their own experts already, so you'd be spared that at least. And everyone and his wife would expect you to come out for free - we're the Antiques Roadshow generation, remember (although I have to laugh at the oxymoron inherent in the US Antiques Roadshow - this in a country where, I kid you not, I visited some 'ancient' (circa 1876) log cabins in the Appalachians, and the whole crew of reasonably intelligent people, without a hint of irony or shame, proclaimed that of course they would have been draughty, but they made the windows small because ... "Glass Hadn't Been Invented Way Back Then" ! Anyone heard of the Romans ? No ? Monty Python then ?). I digress. You would of course have to make these house-calls for free and at your own expense, and be grateful too, to have the privilege of appraising such a work of art, dating back as far as, possibly as far as... ummm... now when was Bob's dad born ?
    No glass as of 1876? Tell that to the residents of New Town, Edinburgh, Scottland who blacked out their windows because these were taxed.....which would be in the 18th century. "New Town" being "new" in relationship to the rest of Edingburgh.

    We have no idea what "old" means.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Maybe you could advise the eBayer who has been advertising a Pariani saddle made in the '60s for $2,450. Uh, similar old saddles like that might bring $50. I have one sitting in my tack room made in the '50s that is in excellent shape - try finding a modern horse that it fits. It's not just humans who have gotten bigger in the past 50 years.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    MVP, if you can convince an adjuster that saddles and tack appreciate in value I'll be the first contributor to your run for the Presidency!

    You will also make a lot of money being the first Professional Tack Adjuster!!!!!

    To determine the level of coverage you need first you'll need an inventory. Then you'll need to establish either a market value or determine replacement cost.

    Now, read your policy. What kind of coverage will you be buying? "Market value" is cheaper for obvious reasons. It would be up to you to establish this value in the event of a loss. The "three estimate" rule is pretty common. Since there are no "professional tack appraisers" that I'm aware of using advertised values or auction prices (a la e-Bay) would probably have to do. If the company disputes the values then they have to go out and do their own research.

    "Replacement value" is not always what that term says. It's defined in a policy that includes this coverage. It can mean different things when applied to different classes of property (rapidly consumed property like clothing or electronics vs. slowly consumed property like books or furniture). There can be limits so make sure that you find those limits, if they exist. This means reading the policy. I know how boring that is but you have to do it anyway to ensure you buy what you need and don't buy what you don't.

    If you have antiques that do appreciate over time you'll need coverage different from that found in a standard barn/homeowners policy. This coverage can sometimes be had by endorsement. Sometimes it will requier a different policy. This is a fairly specialized business, however.

    Having a good "ballpark" number for your tack is a Very Good Thing. I hope you never have to send it to a claims adjuster!

    G.
    G.-- good points. I will ask for a full copy of the policy and read that sucker cover to cover. I can out-anal most people when need be.

    But tack-- a handmade western saddle with sheepskin wool, not the fake stuff *does* appreciate in monetary terms when someone asks what it would cost to buy a comparable one now.

    Otherwise, you are right: Does "using tack" go in the consumable goods category, or given the rising prices and dropping quality of the stuff, does it go in another? It's certainly not like, say, a first edition book.

    And then there is the "canary diamond bought at a garage sale" scenario I mentioned in another thread.

    I recently bought a saddle from someone who didn't know what they had. Used addles made by the same maker go for 10x the price. But I have *never* seen this version of one of his saddles before. So getting this CC, straight flap version as opposed to another CC straight flap saddle, or a saddle made by this guy that's not like all the other used dressage saddles of his floating around would require that the guy make one for me. And then you get to 20x the price for what he'd charge to make you one now.

    My butt had an "Alex Haley moment" when it sat in this saddle, so I'm not planning to kill it off for the insurance money. I pity myself if I ever have to file a claim. I pity the adjuster as well.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateWooten View Post
    I think you'd have to be a self-starter. That's why I also think you'd be run ragged trying to make ends meet - think about how far and wide any generic saddle-fitter has to travel to make a living - and you'd be vastly more specialized than that! So, basically, you'd have to travel the whole entire country. I think in Europe they have their own experts already, so you'd be spared that at least. And everyone and his wife would expect you to come out for free - we're the Antiques Roadshow generation, remember (although I have to laugh at the oxymoron inherent in the US Antiques Roadshow - this in a country where, I kid you not, I visited some 'ancient' (circa 1876) log cabins in the Appalachians, and the whole crew of reasonably intelligent people, without a hint of irony or shame, proclaimed that of course they would have been draughty, but they made the windows small because ... "Glass Hadn't Been Invented Way Back Then" ! Anyone heard of the Romans ? No ? Monty Python then ?). I digress. You would of course have to make these house-calls for free and at your own expense, and be grateful too, to have the privilege of appraising such a work of art, dating back as far as, possibly as far as... ummm... now when was Bob's dad born ?
    No glass as of 1876? Tell that to the residents of New Town, Edinburgh, Scottland who blacked out their windows because these were taxed.....which would be in the 18th century. "New Town" being "new" in relationship to the rest of Edingburgh.

    We have no idea what "old" means.

    I do think that the "English Tack Appraiser" job isn't one you do full time. Until you get to High Culture Items, I don't think any appraiser of specialty stuff can do this full time. But they do somehow bridge the gap between "I know a heck of a lot about these obscure things" to "publicly credible as someone who can accurately and fairly assign a current dollar value to them." What's that path?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Maybe you could advise the eBayer who has been advertising a Pariani saddle made in the '60s for $2,450. Uh, similar old saddles like that might bring $50. I have one sitting in my tack room made in the '50s that is in excellent shape - try finding a modern horse that it fits. It's not just humans who have gotten bigger in the past 50 years.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    MVP, if you can convince an adjuster that saddles and tack appreciate in value I'll be the first contributor to your run for the Presidency!

    You will also make a lot of money being the first Professional Tack Adjuster!!!!!

    To determine the level of coverage you need first you'll need an inventory. Then you'll need to establish either a market value or determine replacement cost.

    Now, read your policy. What kind of coverage will you be buying? "Market value" is cheaper for obvious reasons. It would be up to you to establish this value in the event of a loss. The "three estimate" rule is pretty common. Since there are no "professional tack appraisers" that I'm aware of using advertised values or auction prices (a la e-Bay) would probably have to do. If the company disputes the values then they have to go out and do their own research.

    "Replacement value" is not always what that term says. It's defined in a policy that includes this coverage. It can mean different things when applied to different classes of property (rapidly consumed property like clothing or electronics vs. slowly consumed property like books or furniture). There can be limits so make sure that you find those limits, if they exist. This means reading the policy. I know how boring that is but you have to do it anyway to ensure you buy what you need and don't buy what you don't.

    If you have antiques that do appreciate over time you'll need coverage different from that found in a standard barn/homeowners policy. This coverage can sometimes be had by endorsement. Sometimes it will requier a different policy. This is a fairly specialized business, however.

    Having a good "ballpark" number for your tack is a Very Good Thing. I hope you never have to send it to a claims adjuster!

    G.
    G.-- good points. I will ask for a full copy of the policy and read that sucker cover to cover. I can out-anal most people when need be.

    But tack-- a handmade western saddle with sheepskin wool, not the fake stuff *does* appreciate in monetary terms when someone asks what it would cost to buy a comparable one now.

    Otherwise, you are right: Does "using tack" go in the consumable goods category, or given the rising prices and dropping quality of the stuff, does it go in another? It's certainly not like, say, a first edition book.

    And then there is the "canary diamond bought at a garage sale" scenario I mentioned in another thread.

    I recently bought a saddle from someone who didn't know what they had. Used addles made by the same maker go for 10x the price. But I have *never* seen this version of one of his saddles before. So getting this CC, straight flap version as opposed to another CC straight flap saddle, or a saddle made by this guy that's not like all the other used dressage saddles of his floating around would require that the guy make one for me. And then you get to 20x the price for what he'd charge to make you one now.

    My butt had an "Alex Haley moment" when it sat in this saddle, so I'm not planning to kill it off for the insurance money. I pity myself if I ever have to file a claim. I pity the adjuster as well.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



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