[talloaks]

I don't have the 2005 guide yet~~~~~~~~~guess the PO isn't finished reading it yet!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...s/winkgrin.gif

[Sonesta]

That darn snail has not yet made it to Texas with my Guide. Dang nabbit.

[Reg Corkum]

Thanks Fred.... wondering which HSH you are referring to... is that the latest?... I haven't seen anything recent in HSH.

Your ad printed well in the Breeders Guide 2005 by the way. Thought you might like to know that... as sometimes we know things tend to vary. I thought the printing was quite good in general on nice paper.

Talloaks if the 2004 Guide layout is anything like the 2005, it gave cover credits on the second last page of the magazine, bottom of the page. Your website is very attractive by the way. Lizard Graphics... of course... lovely work.

Between Bob Tarr's and my pictures from the 100 day stallion testing, they had a pretty decent selection of shots to choose from,and I don't mean that to brag, but I think its true, they had good raw material to play up a strong editorial story.

I am surprised the graphics department didn't go bold in the layout and play it up more. I haven't seen a layout yet with any of the shots that has wowed me, and I think the shots have the potential in the hands of a clever art director.

I am not sure who draws the lines in the final decisions but I think giving is where receiving begins. It all seems to be very conservative and "space saving". Isn't the heartache and financial layout of the stallion owners sufficient that they should get some strong editorial attention for their hard earned successes, and personally I think 3 pages could easily have been 10 pages in this case.

Photography looks best with clean strong simple layout and so far everyone seems to be going fairly conservatively in presentation.

I guess I am old school and am a firm believer in the old adage that a good photo is worth "a thousand words" and should occupy at least that amount of space.

Editorial advertising can be powerful and I think the stallions who made the cut earned it. It also adds visual drama to the magazine. Just look at any of the more important magazines that have a strong visual layout, it adds a great deal of impact. This is a once a year deal and for the stallion testing once every two years, come on guys lets play it up a bit.

Just my opinion, for what its worth.

[Iluvgoldies]

If I am a paid member of ISR will I get the 2005 breeders guide ??

[Fred]

Talloaks, the cover photo info is on the last page at the bottom - it doesn't give a photo credit, but it does give wonderful information about who the horses in the picture are and says that "all horses belong and were bred by BB"
Reg the HSH is the stallion issue - I am not a subscriber, but received a copy because I am quoted in one of the articles. Your name jumped out at me from seeing it here on the BB.
Thanks for the kind words about my ad, it too was designed by Lizard Graphics.

[talloaks]

Fred, thanks for the info!! To think I had the breeders guide for a year and never saw that info! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif Oh well, that pic was from 1993 when my beloved TB had her second warmblood foal. The foal in the pic has had a couple of fabulous fillies and now one, Contessa, is due to foal a Sandro Hit April 30th!! The generations keep moving on!!! The foal pictured is a huge dressage mover as are her daughters so it will be interesting to see how it carries over in the Sandro Hit foal!! Just 3 months to go! http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...s/winkgrin.gif

[Edgar]

Just got mine, have not unwrapped it yet but so far like the back cover just fine.

[diggergirl]

I like the back cover too, especially the shot of Pablo http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif

I was curious about the stallion index section. Why are not all the stallions listed with an index number? Some stallion scored very high in the index, such as Pablo with 133 (or131, I can't remember). There was not much of an explenation of the meaning of the scores and why all stallions did not recieve a score?

I also wish there was longer coverage of the stallion testing.

[ise@ssl]

The explanation for the index is on page 43 and that it started in 2003. There is a 1/2 page detailed explanation etc.

The issue of coverage of the stallion testing always relates to timing. To get the breeders guide out they need to go to press (yes I'd like mine as soon as possible) and the testing isn't completed until November.

As far as the stallion testing - I feel the coverage is fair. Otherwise we could argue the point of why don't we have a large section for competition results for performance as well. Most of these things are covered in more detail in the newsletters.

To the person who asked - if you are a current member you will receive a Breeders Guide.

[Reg Corkum]

My instructions were...Please send images of these stallions in 300 dpi "large format" for publish in Breeders Guide. RUSH! RUSH! We need them immediately and the other photographer is out of town and unreachable!!!

My understanding of large format is.. 300 dpi which is what most publications require and full page dimension should you decide to go that large...which is 8 1/2" by 11".

I format everything and begin the endless process of sending all images as attached files.

If you know you have limited space and how much of the magazine will be dedicated to the actual coverage, I have no problem with that. Those are your responsibilities.

If you know they will be published no larger than 3'x 4", and that the time involved with sending as attached files with choice of up to three images of all the stallions in 8 1/2" x 11" format is probably three times longer and very very time consuming on my end, and its RUSH RUSH RUSH, why would you ask someone who is voluntarily offering their services to assist in your needs spend more time than required for no purpose whatsoever?

Is this the FAIR you are referring to? Please.

After sending the first image, it would have been nice if I were told at that time, Wait! downsize to this specification and save yourself some time! It is not necessary to send them that large because they will not be published that large. I recall having said specifically... I do hope for sending all these images this size that something will appear in a larger size, and I believe it was jokingly remarked.. Oh you wait and see... you will be pleasantly surprised.

Well yes, I was surprised alright, but not pleasantly.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ise@ssl:
The explanation for the index is on page 43 and that it started in 2003. There is a 1/2 page detailed explanation etc.

The issue of coverage of the stallion testing always relates to timing. To get the breeders guide out they need to go to press (yes I'd like mine as soon as possible) and the testing isn't completed until November.

As far as the stallion testing - I feel the coverage is fair. Otherwise we could argue the point of why don't we have a large section for competition results for performance as well. Most of these things are covered in more detail in the newsletters.

To the person who asked - if you are a current member you will receive a Breeders Guide. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[diggergirl]

I understand how the points are derived, but what is the qualitative/quanitative meaning of the index. Also, the explanation does not cover why not all stallions are listed, such as Riverman, Contucci, Ideal, etc... Surely, thoses stallions have enough of a record to be incorperated into the index.

[Cartier]

I’d like to see Membership Directory for Oldenburg North America members, so that members can contact each other. Every other club we belong to publishes a Membership Guide.

And, with respect to the Performance Records (which starts on page 129), I would like all stallions with Oldenburg foals branded in a given year listed in this tally (or somewhere in the Breeder's Guide). For example, we (and one other breeder) paid $300 extra (each) to put a Lord Sinclair foal in the Oldenburg North America Registry in 2004. Lord Sinclair’s Performance Records is extraordinary, he was twice Bundeschampion, he won his 100 Day Test in Germany and has competed at GP in Germany. Yet he is not even listed in this directory. So, we have a Premium Lord Sinclair foal and many breeders don’t even know who Lord Sinclair is (which ultimately impacts the value of our filly). We also had a Contango colt presented in 2004, and Contangos's considerable Performance Record is not listed (not sure why, Contango is an Old NA stallion). Another example, there are 5 Weltmeyer kids listed… and again, Weltmeyer is not listed in the Performance Records.

[diggergirl]

I would also like to see more mare statistics, or at least mare inspection scores in the foal inspection part. It is nice they list breed, sire and damn sire, but I think scores would also be helpful for looking at a stallion prepotency. For example, if a mare scored 93 at her inspection and the foal scored high for movemetn, then we might see a pattern for a stallion for improving certain characteristics. I think dams are 50% of the equation, thus it would be good to have info on them as well.

[ise@ssl]

Well suggestion for the Breeders Guide are discussed at the board meetings when they are sent to the registry. I've had people write to me and I've printed off and taken their requests to meetings. Send letters - don't just post here - or it won't be discussed.

Reg - you should direct you anger and frustration at the registry - not me just because I felt the test was sufficiently covered - IMHO.

[Cartier]

Ilona wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well suggestion for the Breeders Guide are discussed at the board meetings when they are sent to the registry. I've had people write to me and I've printed off and taken their requests to meetings. Send letters - don't just post here - or it won't be discussed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that this forum is not the appropriate venue, but here the problem, there is no Membership Directory so members do NOT have a name and address of who to send something to. Even if I had your address (which I don’t) you Ilona have been less than civil on so many occasions, I would NOT feel comfortable sending something to you, nor should that be the appropriate chain of correspondence for a non-profit club. There should be annual general meetings, which are open to club members and regular elections of club officers and board members. The one member of the Board of Directors who is known to reside here in the United States does not return calls on issues related to the registry. It is very frustrating for members to know what is going on with this registry.

[talloaks]

No Breeders Guide today in Marshall~~~~~~~guess the pony express is lost somewhere in the hills!! Dang it!!

[Reg Corkum]

I've said my piece and here was as good a place as any. Maybe whoever is asked in the future to waste their time will have at least seen or heard a little about the story. Thats the only thing I see beneficial at this point in time.

Ilona I have no idea who you are, nor does it much matter...so you don't need to address it further. Its not really your affair.

[Edgar]

Reg, sorry don't care to get into what exactly the problems are with the pictures but if it helps any , I had a chance to look through the directory today and your pictures look very nice to me! thank you for all your effort.

Cartier, the performance records are simply show results that are submitted by stallion owners. Many stallions do not have a posted record because stallion owners have not submitted them. I know because I only submitted 1 of 5 and probably should send in something on all. It is also the ISR's intention to promote US stallions and US breeding programs. Sires outside of the US make up a very small portion of the sires producing foals in the US registries and their owners could become a member and have their stallion in the book if it was interresting to them. I have nothing against it personally but those seem to be the consequenses of choosing foreign sires.

[Cartier]

Edgar,

I am well aware of the plusses and minuses of choosing foreign sires, so let’s not go too far astray with this. As for the statement of yours: <span class="ev_code_RED">“It is also the ISR's intention to promote US stallions and US breeding programs.”</span> I have a few issues with it. First, we don’t have an ISR horse[s], rather, we own and breed Oldenburg NA horses.

AS for as promoting US stallions, there are clear advantages and disadvantages to promoting only US bred and US based stallions and I can see both sides of that issue.

This promotion i.e. The Breeders Guide seems to be put together very selectively. Stallions like Contucci, Cor Noir, Riverman, Freshtrash, Royal Prince, Hilltop Bugatti and Rousseau were all bred abroad, some are even living abroad, yet they are promoted by the Old NA registry in the Breeders Guide. Now, be clear, I have no complaint about them being in the Breeders Guide, they are useful stallions for US breeders, but so are Contango, Weltmeyer, Feinbrand, Lord Sinclair and Sandro Hit.

Bottom line, IF the Old NA had bothered to contact us about inclusion of the stallions (some of whom we are paying extra to use), in this important Breeders Guide, we would have been very happy to provide information. Though it’s hard to argue that Contango, Feinbrand, Lord Sinclair, Weltmeyer and Sandro Hit need introduction, the data on these stallions should be readily accessible to the registry. If we are breeding Oldenburg horses, then these stallions have a place in our breeding programs. And, in many instances getting information on these stallions would have been as simple as directing the editor to a website. We were never contacted. And, not having a stallion's Performance Record in the Breeders Guide impacts the marketability of the stallion's offspring. Inclusion is tacit endorsement. Consider it from this perspective, at best the Breeders Guide is vague / completely silent as to why some stallions are included and some are not. Absent any credible explanation, many Old NA breeders may draw conclusions about why a stallion is omitted. Like many other aspects of these registries, inclusion in the Breeders Guide seems to be a matter of who you know (or other extraneous considerations), and not the objective merit of the stallion.

[ise@ssl]

The registry repeatedly asks for input on Performance in the Newsletter. They also request photographs for the website, newsletter and Breeders guide. It should be noted the Performance information is to be provided by the OWNER - not another third party.

The address for the registry is on the website, breeders guide, as is the email address.

As you all know there have been many changes to the Breeders Guide over the years and it's come from SUGGESTIONS. All suggestions are discussed if they are made to the registry. BUT - as with many publications - alot of the set up is done in advance.

Looking at other Breeders Guides - it appears the ISR/OLDNA gives a tremendous amount of information that other registries don't publish - but there's always room for more info. I asked for two years to add the breeding of the dam for foals - it happened and then asked for the dam sire and now that's happened.

Make your suggestions - don't just kvetch.