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  1. #1
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    Question Thoughts on this TB pedigree?

    I would love to get some information on some of the horses in this pedigree - there are a lot who are unfamiliar to me....
    thanks in advance!

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  2. #2
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    I love Santa Claus. He didn't have many foals, but he was a line that appeared in more than a few Show jumpers in Ireland, back in the day. His son, Santa's Sleigh had quite a few ISHs, and is in the pedigree of Ballynoe Castle RM, Buck Davidson's WEG horse. His son Megalo is in the lines of one of this year's Burghley horses--Bunratty Rose. Santa Claus's sons were seem to have been used a lot on Irish mares, often of the dreaded unknown pedigree.
    Last edited by vineyridge; Oct. 10, 2011 at 07:56 PM.
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  3. #3
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    And the great Yeats has Santa Claus in his pedigree. I love seeing him in pedigree's over here. As Viney says not many of them.

    Terri
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  4. #4
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    Thumbs up

    thanks viney and Terri for the info about Santa Claus.
    There are so many horses in this pedigree who are complete unknowns to me...I appreciate your insights.
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  5. #5
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    Northern Hawk had a full brother North Rock, who stood here, in BC, siring racehorses with some local (regional) sucess. We had one of them as a broodmare, Willies Dancer. Many North Rocks were very similar, smaller bay horses, ND influence, utilitarian looks, functional local racehorses. Our mare had three foals, not very successful racing, but all three did jump, one filly did the local A circut jumpers quite successfully to the 4'6" levels. That filly also produced two more offspring that also did the local grand prixs, both sired by a local WB stallion. I always figured that the jump came from the female line of Willies Dancer, The Willies II etc. But not a lot of other North Rocks got tried, so who knows for sure.


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  6. #6
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    Super duper!
    Precipitation, Arctic Prince, Blandford, Sundridge, Hurry On, Palestine to Uganda, Owen Tudor Thanks be to New Zealand for saving all these British jumping lines up close. Oops 1974...sorry not so up close...still nice. On the dams side double Tourbillon, more Blandford and an tineresting looking Borealis. PatO
    Last edited by columbus; Oct. 11, 2011 at 09:06 PM.


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  7. #7
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    So where did you find this pony and what are you going to do with her?


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  8. #8
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    Thumbs up

    thank you NancyM and columbus for the added info and insight... much appreciated.

    gry2young, this mare is no longer with us, but she is the dam of a mare (owned by a client) who has a 2yr old AFR baby and who is in foal again to him for 2012.

    I'm always happy to see the old TB blood being carried forward.
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  9. #9
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    Update!

    I thought you would be interested to know that this mare's grandbaby competed in his first recognized HT, at Ocala last weekend.
    He has been bought as an UL event prospect, and the dressage judge's comment on his test was "awesome horse".
    He had a couple of baby moments in his XC, but was overall excellent.
    The 2012 colt is now mine, and he is a handsome big guy.
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  10. #10
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    Awesome!! I also love Santa Claus -- fabulous looking horse! Alot of "old blood" in the 5 generations you don't see much but should be protected! Many of them are in my foundation mare's pedigree so they get my attention.
    Good luck with your colt!
    PennyG


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Update!

    I thought you would be interested to know that this mare's grandbaby competed in his first recognized HT, at Ocala last weekend.
    He has been bought as an UL event prospect, and the dressage judge's comment on his test was "awesome horse".
    He had a couple of baby moments in his XC, but was overall excellent.
    The 2012 colt is now mine, and he is a handsome big guy.
    Just for the heck of it, I went ahead and looked up Borealis again. He was the sire of many different horses with sport horse descendants who have competed FEI.

    But his most impressive get was a mare named Queen of Light. She is amazing, pure and simple. She had several daughters, but the three who are consistently found in sport horse pedigrees are Chandelier, Crystal Palace, and Picture Light.

    Chandelier was the dam of Crocket by King of the Tudors. Crocket had at least seven different get who appear in sport horse pedigrees. One, a son, Rocket who got sent to Germany, is the sire of Arak xx, who competed at the World Cup in dressage with Monica Theodorescu. Rocket is also the grandsire of a very good German event horse named Bandit through his son, Belmont Park. Chandelier was also the dam of Exit Smiling, a mare, who is (rather far back, I admit) in the sire line through her son, River Smile for some BWP eventers, one of whom made Le Lion. Exit Smiling is also the dam of Don Roberto, who is the sire's damsire for Cadiz, an eventer at the London Games with Aurelien Kahn. Cadiz was bred in Spain and has a KWPN dam with Erdball as the second damsire. He also went to Le Lion. Yet another daughter, Lighted Lamp is the dam of a stallion, Torus, who is the second damsire of a very nice up and coming TB event horse by Hand in Glove named Onfire, who was 10th at Boekelo in 2012.

    Queen of Light's daughter, Crystal Palace, was the dam of a stallion named Royal Palace. Royal Palace has three different get with sport horse descendants. He is damsire of Spoleto, who is the sire of an SF that Michel Robert rode to 4th in the 1999 European Championships in Show Jumping. He's also the damsire through different mares of a couple of French event horses, one of whom competed with the same rider for over seven years at FEI events and was a 3* horse in his prime. Royal Palace is the sire line for the dam of a New Zealand SH stallion who stands for dressage, but whose get have made FEI level events in New Zealand as event horses at their highest level (3*). Sally Cousins in the US had one.

    Now we get to Picture Light, who just happens to the be the dam of Welsh Pageant. And Welsh Pageant is the sire of Lauries Crusador. He has another son who is the damsire of Lucinda Green's current horse, Cry Freedom.

    Queen of Light, I would argue, might just be one of the best movement lines in all of TB sporthorsedom. If I were breeding and could select any horse from any TB damline, I'm not sure I wouldn't select hers.

    And she is only one of at least twenty Borealis get with sport horse descendants.
    Last edited by vineyridge; Feb. 15, 2013 at 09:49 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    Just for the heck of it, I went ahead and looked up Borealis again. He was the sire of many different horses with sport horse descendants who have competed FEI.

    .
    What no mention of Australis? She was reported to be by Borealis.
    Certainly a success at the biggest shows of her time. Ridden and trained by a High School senior.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PINE TREE FARM SC View Post
    What no mention of Australis? She was reported to be by Borealis.
    Certainly a success at the biggest shows of her time. Ridden and trained by a High School senior.
    Australis is not listed on the Dutch FEI site that I use. But they frequently don't go back as far as 1970, especially for horses who weren't in the Olympics or European Championships and the horse didn't breed FEI level descendants. She is by Borealis, was a member of the Canadian Equestrian Team, showed in Europe and the US, and is definitely in Dr. Birdsall.

    Borealis was also the damsire of Carnival Night, who was the damsire, IIRC, of the Shear horses that Leslie Law rode in the Olympics. He won Gold with one of them. Carnival Night was an exceptional event sire in Ireland Borealis was also the damsire of Highclere.

    It would appear that Borealis is a line that needs to come in through mares. Although a couple of his sons have also done well in sport. One is Herero, who got sent to Germany and is the grandsire of the Trak stallion, Consul through his son Swazi; Herero is also the sire's damsire of Taldi, a TB used in Ireland who has quite a few event horses. Another Herero son was Godolphin, who has a number of KWPN show jumpers descendants, including one gelding son who went to the SJ World Cup years ago with Phillipe Guerdat. The rest of his jumpers all come through mares. Borealis was also the sire of the KWPN foundation TB sire, Pantheon who also comes into sport through mares.

    But I have to say that I was fixated by Queen of Light. And didn't even look at the rest. And still haven't, except for the sons.

    Should point out, since I've said that I think Hyperion is the best line for movement in the TB that Borealis is out of the very great for sport mare Aurora, a daughter of Hyperion. She was also the dam of the great for sport Australian stallion, Agricola, and the British stallion Alycidon. When one of Queen of Light's daughters was crossed into the Owen Tudor line, Hyperion was doubled. And that's what's in the sire of Lauries Crusador and the grandsire of Arak.
    Last edited by vineyridge; Feb. 15, 2013 at 09:12 PM.
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  14. #14
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    This mare's grandson did just get a really good dressage score the other day, so he must be a fancy mover the way Viney's research suggests. Of course the sire AFR himself is a very fancy mover and a prepotent sire. I'll vouch for that! I am so excited to see the Fredlets making their marks and know this is one tb sportline that is not going to die out. Congrats Fred!


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  15. #15
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    Queen City Miss was also bred to Olden Times & produced Queen City Lad. Nice dam line. Thanks for the update.
    "I don't know what your generation's fascination is with documenting your every thought... but I can assure you, they're not all diamonds." Mr. G


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKR View Post
    Awesome!! I also love Santa Claus -- fabulous looking horse! Alot of "old blood" in the 5 generations you don't see much but should be protected! Many of them are in my foundation mare's pedigree so they get my attention.
    Good luck with your colt!
    PennyG
    Thanks Penny.
    I didn't see any pictures of Santa Claus, but I will go have a look.
    Would you post your foundation mare's pedigree?
    I agree with you about the old blood, and trying to keep it alive.
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  17. #17
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    Thank you viney for all that wonderful and valuable information, as always.
    I really appreciate your contributions to this board.

    Cheektwocheek - thank you for the good wishes and added info - and I LOVE your name! (not surprisingly )

    Holly, thank you.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renascence View Post
    This mare's grandson did just get a really good dressage score the other day, so he must be a fancy mover the way Viney's research suggests. Of course the sire AFR himself is a very fancy mover and a prepotent sire. I'll vouch for that! I am so excited to see the Fredlets making their marks and know this is one tb sportline that is not going to die out. Congrats Fred!
    Thank you Renascence.
    I know the AFR's line will live on through his daughters, like your beautiful girl, but I am worried about the sire line....

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  19. #19
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    Go here for Santa Claus pictures:
    http://sporthorse-data.com/d?0=dummy...session=xde6Eo
    And here is Reindeer:
    http://sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10138522

    This is, without doubt, the best website ever for photos.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Update!

    I thought you would be interested to know that this mare's grandbaby competed in his first recognized HT, at Ocala last weekend.
    He has been bought as an UL event prospect, and the dressage judge's comment on his test was "awesome horse".
    He had a couple of baby moments in his XC, but was overall excellent.
    The 2012 colt is now mine, and he is a handsome big guy.
    Yea for you, Fred!!! I trust you are not going to geld him, right?

    Sounds like he will be a super horse to take over when (in 10 years ) Fred retires.
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