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  1. #1
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    Default Help me help Fox with mange!!??

    I have this posted in around the farm, and someone suggested that I should put it in hunting...

    We have a family of foxes in our horse pastures, who have a litter every few years and always look lovely and healthy, and we love seeing them around the property - they're shy and keep their distance, and seem to know that our place is safe now, and avoid the neighbors with guns.

    The only one I've seen around lately I thought was young and super gangly, but now I realize it has horrible mange - it's terribly thin, and the tail is very short, and the haunches are losing hair. It's not incredibly advanced, but needs treatment to prevent it dying an unpleasant death. He's been curling up in one of the older horse sheds to keep warm at night

    I feel responsible, as this is such a problem in my area with stray dogs and cats bc of people, we have awful mange issues, absolutely no spay and neuter program, and no wildlife care within hundreds of miles. Animal control would trap him, and kill him, and I don't want that unless he's in terrible pain.

    I'm trying to get the exact dosage and treatment plan for Ivermectin, if that's the correct way to go - I've read that it should be fed 3 x wk for 3 wks, then tapered off - has anyone does this - has it helped? Any tips/tricks/advice?

    These animals bring us so much joy in our property, which we've tried to make a little oasis to birdlife and wildlife in a very over-farmed, over regulated area. I would LOVE any input on this, I know a lot of people on this board must have foxes on their farms, and hopefully they're as knowledgeable about this as everything else

    Thanks! I feel awful for him!



  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil's Girl View Post
    I
    I feel responsible, as this is such a problem in my area with stray dogs and cats bc of people, we have awful mange issues, absolutely no spay and neuter program, and no wildlife care within hundreds of miles. Animal control would trap him, and kill him, and I don't want that unless he's in terrible pain.
    Yeah. It's all the fault of humans.

    It's a wild animal. Let nature take its course.



  3. #3
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    Default

    Perhaps it was not a good idea to put this in the hunting forums after all...

    I'm not looking for opinions, just anyone who has experience and expertise in this area.



  4. #4
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    I can't help you, sorry.
    If you can't get good directions, maybe a hunting club nearby might have some good info, or fish and game, or even a google search.

    I wish you well in finding a solution.
    Ignore mildot. I agree mange is a horrid, slow and painful death, and I don't buy let nature take its course. Either help the animal or put it out of its misery.

    That was such an inapprpriate attitude that mildot has. No good hunter ignores an animal suffering.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  5. #5
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    http://foxwoodrehab.typepad.com/my_w...ng-sarcop.html

    I am sure there are other links.
    I just put in treating mange in foxes to google.
    Good luck.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  6. #6
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    Absolutely ignore mildot. Foxhunters, like all true hunters, are conservationists and do what they can to preserve what they hunt. Give it a little time. I know there are a lot of fox lovers here.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  7. #7
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    Default

    Thank you, that's what I was hoping to hear I've found a lot of different things on google, but no exact dosage for liquid Ivermectin which is what I have, not injectable, not paste. Hoping someone might know if this is ok....



  8. #8
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    Default

    I believe there have been threads posted here, or in around the farm, about treating foxes for mange. Maybe try a search.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryswyn View Post
    Absolutely ignore mildot. Foxhunters, like all true hunters, are conservationists and do what they can to preserve what they hunt. Give it a little time. I know there are a lot of fox lovers here.
    A) There is a huge difference between being a hunter and conservationist (which I have been since my 20s) and trying to treat wild animals as if they were pets.

    B) Her blatant insinuation that us bad humans are the cause of wild animal suffering is pure Disneyesque bullshit.

    C) Personally, I'd put a bullet in him to end his suffering. There is no way any rational human being approaches an infected wild animal.

    Also known as canine scabies, sarcoptic mange is a highly contagious infestation of Sarcoptes scabiei canis, a burrowing mite. The canine sarcoptic mite can also infest humans (scabies), cats, pigs, horses, sheep and various other species.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mildot View Post
    A) There is a huge difference between being a hunter and conservationist (which I have been since my 20s) and trying to treat wild animals as if they were pets.
    Gosh, I always thought hunters were conservationists...at least thats what my Dad taught me.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  11. #11
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    I'm not sure how a statement that my local government and bylaws have an extremely poor record in both wild and domestic animal control is exactly "disneyesque", I believe according to numbers it's fact, but I'm not on here looking to poll personal opinions and view, simply facts on dosage in horse oral solution Ivermectin from anyone who has had experience in the matter.

    I don't intend to approach any animal, simply leave out dosed bait for an animal that has inhabited my farm for years, keeps the population of birds and rodents in balance, and is enjoyable for my family to watch.

    In my books, a conservationist is someone who tries to preserve a natural balance of an ecosystem in a realistic way, and that's what I'm doing with my small farm.

    Thank you for those with feedback, I appreciate it!



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    Gosh, I always thought hunters were conservationists...at least thats what my Dad taught me.
    They should be but not all are.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil's Girl View Post
    I'm trying to get the exact dosage and treatment plan for Ivermectin, if that's the correct way to go - I've read that it should be fed 3 x wk for 3 wks, then tapered off - has anyone does this - has it helped? Any tips/tricks/advice?

    These animals bring us so much joy in our property, which we've tried to make a little oasis to birdlife and wildlife in a very over-farmed, over regulated area. I would LOVE any input on this, I know a lot of people on this board must have foxes on their farms, and hopefully they're as knowledgeable about this as everything else

    Thanks! I feel awful for him!
    Found on the internet (see below). Please note: you should be VERY careful to make sure the fox is the one that eats the food, not a domestic animal. I'd offer real, fresh meat - not the canned stuff, and nothing cooked. Fresh and at body temp is the natural food of a wild carnivore. If you can slip the food in front of the fox without it seeing you, all the better. If you can catch it in a Have-a-Heart trap, so that you can ensure its care, that would be best until it is ready to be released.

    Good luck! I hope you can help the little critter.

    Sarcoptic mange is treatable if the animal is treated in time before the process of organ failure begins. The drug of choice is inexpensive and easy to obtain. Although it is an "off-label use" according to the FDA, Ivermectin injection for cattle and pigs is a very effective cure for Sarcoptic mange in foxes. This injectable solution works orally and can easily be slipped into food. The ivermectin also treats a lot of the intestinal worms and any ear mites. The catch is this: it kills the mites living on the skin but doesn't kill the eggs . These eggs will hatch and reinfect the fox, so it has to be administered many times to kill the mange mites that hatch after treatment. I strongly recommend treating Red foxes very aggressively, giving them the Ivermectin every three days for the first three weeks. A daily feeding station using cat or dog food can be set up to facilitate the administration of tasty treats laced with ivermectin. A spoonful of canned cat food, a chunk of cooked chicken or venison can easily be injected with the solution. Weeks four and five give the ivermectin every five days. Weeks six through nine put the ivermectin every ten days.

    Ivermectin comes in two strengths- the 200 mL tall blue bottle is a dilute 0.27% solution for Grower and Feeder Pigs. 0.5 ml (or cc) will treat a 10 lb fox. if your fox is an adult or young adult, it is a 10 lb fox. A lot of people think they weigh more than that , but trust me, a mangy fox does not tip the scales past 10 lbs. Fox pups may weigh less, and you can cut the dose in half. You will need a large needle to draw the solution out of the bottle because the solution is rather thick. A very fine needle and small syringe will make it difficult to draw. Ivermectin is a non- perscription product and available online through many livestock suppliers. If they don't have the 0.27% solution, you can use the 1% cattle solution- but the dose will be considerably smaller. You will need to get a needle and syringe to draw it out though. Don't use the pastes for horses or the pour-on for livestock!

    The second strength of Ivermectin is in a much smaller bottle (50 mL) and is a concentrated 1% solution. This injection solution is for cattle and large swine. It costs around $45 at most farm stores- but it will last forever! 1 mL will treat a 110 lb cow. 0.5 cc will treat a 55 lb fox - of course we know that there are no 55lb foxes... so, you will need to really give a small amount! I use 0.2 mL (or 0.2 cc) . Giving the solution orally is much safer and has a larger margin for error than injecting it in foxes.

    Of course other wildlife might get to the food before the fox does, so try to use your judgment and administer it the best way that will target only the fox. Ivermectin is a pretty safe drug and won't harm most wildlife. Some breeds of dogs can be very sensitive to it, particularly the collie family and Australian shepherds . Use extra caution around domestic animals. They use Ivermectin in third world countries to treat different things, such as scabies in humans. Ivermectin is also used to treat dogs and cats for mange, though it is an off label use according to the FDA



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mildot View Post
    Let nature take its course.

    Quote Originally Posted by mildot View Post
    A) There is a huge difference between being a hunter and conservationist (which I have been since my 20s) and trying to treat wild animals as if they were pets.
    So what is this huge difference you mention between hunters and conservationists?

    By your initial post, you are implying that let the animal die, don't intervene.
    As I responded, the hunters' I know do not let animals suffer and know that conservation is what keeps our lands open to hunting and that by caring for our wildlife ensures future generations ability to enjoy.

    Your posts perfectly states, let nature take its course. You of course would shoot the animal. Doesn't sound like OP is at that point and would like to help prior to terminating the animal.

    Maybe its late, but sounds like you are backpedalling here. It seems pretty apparent that you are the hunter, not the conservationist type of hunter.

    Your statements, and then your rationale and justifications don't add up.
    Last edited by fivehorses; Sep. 30, 2011 at 11:49 PM.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  15. #15
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    I'm the one responsible for referring the OP to this forum. Foxhunters are usually helpful to those with questions or problems with the red or grey fox - even when we do not agree on the best course of action.

    It's true the best course of action is to let nature take its course; "nature red in tooth and claw". But it is a hard thing to watch - especially when you know that a tincture of one of the cheapest drugs on earth will save the animals life - or even a local population.

    Some foxhunters do place ivermectin laced hot dogs or chicken necks around known fox dens or where a fox is known to visit. I was hoping one of those people would assist the OP, maybe while the rest of us argued.

    The OP is well advised not to try and trap the animal, as it may be a violation of her states game laws, as well as pose a risk to her, her animals, and her family.

    If we cannot help her, perhaps we can help her try and locate a wildlife rehabber in her area, or put her in contact with her game dept - who may be able to provide a referral as well.

    There has got to be a healthy population of predators in any ecosystem. If the fox in her area die out or populations crash..... a larger predator is going to move in.

    Personally, living in an area where packs of coyotes are taking down livestock and killing pets, I'd rather have more fox around.

    My apologies to the OP for a less than welcoming reception.

    It it helps at all - we're all conservationists but within the scientific/conservation/sporting community there is significant disagreement on predators and interfering with wildlife in this way.

    I don't know what the right answer is. I have shot many a sick/injured animal, including fox dying of mange. It was the right thing to do.

    But mange is something that is so easily cured....... and curing it in the wildlife around the farm can keep your pets from getting it..... to me the answer is.... help.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  16. #16
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    Fivehorses, my advice to the OP hinges on the fact that evidently she's not too fond of firearms or other targeted methods of killing a suffering animal that should not be approached.

    I, OTOH, would just shoot it to end its suffering and be done with it. I would not leave a piece of meat or other bait laced with pharmaceuticals in a field hoping the right animal would take it.

    I find zero inconsistency between the statements if they are taken within context.

    You presume too much about what I am, since you don't know me from adam.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mildot View Post
    Fivehorses, my advice to the OP hinges on the fact that evidently she's not too fond of firearms or other targeted methods of killing a suffering animal that should not be

    You presume too much about what I am, since you don't know me from adam.
    Pot meet kettle. OP never once mentioned her feelings on firearms.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovey1121 View Post
    Pot meet kettle. OP never once mentioned her feelings on firearms.
    they're shy and keep their distance, and seem to know that our place is safe now, and avoid the neighbors with guns.
    A regular Annie Oakely, for sure.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    So what is this huge difference you mention between hunters and conservationists?
    ummm he didn't say there was a difference between hunters and conservationists. he said there was a difference between hunters and conservationists and people treating wild life like pets. (maybe a comma would help... There is a huge difference between being a hunter and conservationist (which I have been since my 20s), and trying to treat wild animals as if they were pets.) Does that make more sense?

    Seriously, you need to be very sure the infected animal will get it. if he is in a shed that horses will be in or have access too, I'd probably find someone to help the fox over rainbow bridge. It's nice to try to treat his condition, but it's not like he has a pimple. This is a very contagious condition that could affect the horses, other pets, other wild life, as well as humans. Ivermectin is also not safe for all dogs, so if there are dogs that you know would likely have a reaction, I would be even more cautious.



  20. #20
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    Gil's Girl, I have a personal contact who may have had some experience with this. I will try to reach her, and if I get any info, I will PM you.

    There havebeen other threads on this, but I know from experience that thhe search functionhere is not great. You're actually better off using Google to search and find the appropriate COTH thread.

    I'm sorry you've had such a poor welcome to the hunting forum. Please don't judge by this one visit. As JSwan has said, you can usually get good information despite our differences.



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