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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2003
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    Canada where all hell has broke free
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    2,805

    Default The good, bad and ugly about horses.

    Does your horse kick/bolt/buck/bite?

    When I get questions like this I just want to say to people that "Yes, they do all of them! Every horse will do any of those things. Just because he is a sanit and will pack you around don't mean that he will never kick/bolt/buck/bite.

    I have a horse listed for sale and my ad reads in part (this is only part od the ad)
    " Can be sensitive but is very willing and a fast learner, wonderful personality." and then
    "NOT A BEGINNERS HORSE"

    Then I get asked why is he not a beginners horse? Then the next email reads Does he kick/bolt/buck/bite?

    Is it just me but if the horse is listed as not a beginners horse, would you not just pass on the horse if you want bomb proof.

    Years ago my friend and I where out riding in a group in a big feild her bomb proof horse started bucking like crazy. I didn't think he could get his feet so far off the ground. She came off and broke her arm bad. this is a horse that anyone could be put on. we later found where he had be bite/sting by something.

    Even a bomb proof horse will do things like kick/bolt/buck/bite. Do people really thing horses are going to be good 100% of the time?
    My life motto now is "You can't fix stupid!"

    Are you going to cowboy up, or lie there and bleed



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2008
    Location
    SE, PA
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    1,959

    Default

    Sorry - I just read the title & had a really loud SNORT at work!! Thank you!!
    Our horses know our secrets; we braid our tears into their manes and whisper our hopes into their ears.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
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    An American Living In Ireland
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    5,671

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    Yeah, I'm at home, but still snorting!

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    10,514

    Default

    hehehe...

    This reminds me of a conversation with a rider from Ecuador, whose accent made "horses" sound like "hores" every time. He was telling us about how well his wife cared for the "hores" and that's how he knew he had to marry her. I've laughed about that for years now. hehehe I will never forget the line "she kept all my hores really clean!"

    OP, sorry for the derail!

    *giggle*
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2004
    Location
    Rolling hills of Virginny
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    6,029

    Default

    Gawd, I so hate it when hores are ugly, don't y'all? It's not like they're any cheaper 'cause they're ugly!
    Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2008
    Posts
    1,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleanor View Post
    Does your horse kick/bolt/buck/bite?

    When I get questions like this I just want to say to people that "Yes, they do all of them! Every horse will do any of those things. Just because he is a sanit and will pack you around don't mean that he will never kick/bolt/buck/bite.

    I have a horse listed for sale and my ad reads in part (this is only part od the ad)
    " Can be sensitive but is very willing and a fast learner, wonderful personality." and then
    "NOT A BEGINNERS HORSE"

    Then I get asked why is he not a beginners horse? Then the next email reads Does he kick/bolt/buck/bite?

    Is it just me but if the horse is listed as not a beginners horse, would you not just pass on the horse if you want bomb proof.

    Years ago my friend and I where out riding in a group in a big feild her bomb proof horse started bucking like crazy. I didn't think he could get his feet so far off the ground. She came off and broke her arm bad. this is a horse that anyone could be put on. we later found where he had be bite/sting by something.

    Even a bomb proof horse will do things like kick/bolt/buck/bite. Do people really thing horses are going to be good 100% of the time?

    I ask that usually. While any horse can.. I want to know if it's a common behaviour. I don't tolerate kicking humans for instance, but if they are just kicking.. that's different. Biting is another.. you can bite yourself or your field mates all you want.. but they can't be routinely biting humans. Rearing as well. Generally I ask if they do these under saddle... obviously horses will buck and kick and bite and such in turnout with there friends occasionally. And can a horse do them w/o it happening before, yes. I just don't like to see a pattern of it.

    (that being said, I am more concerned if a horse cribs or if they rear than the ones you mentioned really).



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,489

    Default

    They only bite and kick when they're being arrested.

    Or so I'm told.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2011
    Posts
    770

    Default

    I'm going to be the devil's advocate here... I think if I were in the market for a horse, and saw a promising looking ad that also said the horse was "not a beginner's horse", I would definitely want to know why. I'm not a beginner, so if it's just that the horse is sensitive, the horse is very opinionated, or the horse is a bit spooky, etc. then whatever. But what if it's because the horse has a rearing habit when he's upset/confused? or if he's just really, really hot? It could be any number of things that you can't tell just by reading an ad. Also, while it's true that any horse is capable of bucking/kicking/biting/bolting, some make it a habit. I would definitely want to know that, even if I'm not looking for a beginner's horse.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2006
    Location
    Evansville, Wisconsin
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    3,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    They only bite and kick when they're being arrested.

    Or so I'm told.
    I've heard some people pay extra for that.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    34,066

    Default

    Good, bad and ugly about hores? Depends on what you want to pay for...or so I have heard.

    Oh, OK, it got fixed. On the intended topic, well, you do not have to provide a life history of every fahrt the horse has ever made, none are perfect. And, sorry, every casual reader of the ads/tire kicker is not entitled to a detailed explanation of why the seller thinks it is not a beginner ride and is certainly not entitled to argue or preach to owner about the error of their horse handling ways and how wrong they are about Flicka if only the owner would sell to them.

    For OP. If and when you get what you think is a legit buyer interested, you can proceed. But you don't have to tie yourself up with the ones that are not in any position to buy your horse.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 8, 2006
    Location
    B.C. Canada
    Posts
    1,947

    Default

    IMO - people ask anyhow for several reasons.

    1/ they want the specifics that a horse MAY display a said behavior.
    2. they are looking for a horse for more then one rider (it'll have to match 2 or more. etc) - such as kids horses.
    3. Sellers lie or abstain from telling the entire truth..

    I never mind answering those types of questions even if they are in the ad.
    Example - I just sold one listed as
    - not a beginner horse.
    no vices - I've never had her look sideways at someone.

    But - she is quick and hot. therefore NOT a beginner horse.

    She has never run off with a novice rider in the 4 years I've owned her - but she just 'might' get away from a complete newbie under the right circumstances - and my reputation of matching my sale horses with the right owner is pretty good- and I'd like to keep it that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by ExJumper View Post
    Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    6,781

    Default I think its a fair question

    Well, sure, all horses are capable of kick/bolt/buck/bite, but some never do, and others do on a regular basis.

    I can tell you, my horse is not a “beginner’s horse” as she is just turned 4, and is still green, but she does not kick/bolt/buck/bite.

    Last time she tried to kick she was 4 months old. Has never bolted. Will throw a little hop on occasion, but could hardly call it a buck. Has never ever bitten. If some one asked me if she had a kick/bolt/buck/bite in her I would answer “no”.

    Having spent years as a test rider for horses pulled from auctions etc, I can tell you some horses DO kick/bolt/buck/bite. I can tell you about the 3 year old, 18 hand percheron that could cow kick at head level (So not cool!), the saddlebred who bolted and bucked out of fear, and the colt who was nasty and tried to bite any chance he got.

    The percheron was “not for beginners” but the seller never mentioned the little cow kicking while tacking up issue… buyer should have asked – bought over the internet sight unseen (I was helping buyer retrain the horse).

    I think it is a fair question when asking about a horse. For the above horses, if someone asked if the horse had a kick/bolt/buck/bite, I would have to answer honestly, that they DID have a serious vice!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2003
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    Canada where all hell has broke free
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    2,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rainechyldes View Post
    IMO - people ask anyhow for several reasons.

    1/ they want the specifics that a horse MAY display a said behavior.
    2. they are looking for a horse for more then one rider (it'll have to match 2 or more. etc) - such as kids horses.
    3. Sellers lie or abstain from telling the entire truth..

    I never mind answering those types of questions even if they are in the ad.
    Example - I just sold one listed as
    - not a beginner horse.
    no vices - I've never had her look sideways at someone.

    But - she is quick and hot. therefore NOT a beginner horse.

    She has never run off with a novice rider in the 4 years I've owned her - but she just 'might' get away from a complete newbie under the right circumstances - and my reputation of matching my sale horses with the right owner is pretty good- and I'd like to keep it that way.
    It is not so much this one person but most people just don't get that horses do as they please and us as there handlers have to watch and be ready for anything. the most laided back horse will do anything out of normal given the right problems.

    I just used this person email as it is the last that came to mind. I always give more feed back when asked but the thing that got me was that they had asked if the horse had any vices, and got a No reply, but then emailed back asking Does he kick/bolt/buck/bite doesn't ask when being handled, just ask if he does it.
    My life motto now is "You can't fix stupid!"

    Are you going to cowboy up, or lie there and bleed



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    5,396

    Default

    When I was looking for a horse I asked those questions. Of course all horses potentially do all of them, but I want to know if your horse ever did any of those things. If yes I ask then what the circumstances were. Then I decide whether it's something I want to deal with. I don't find those questions unreasonable.

    JMO
    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    429

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleanor View Post
    Does your horse kick/bolt/buck/bite?

    When I get questions like this I just want to say to people that "Yes, they do all of them! Every horse will do any of those things. Just because he is a sanit and will pack you around don't mean that he will never kick/bolt/buck/bite.

    Even a bomb proof horse will do things like kick/bolt/buck/bite. Do people really thing horses are going to be good 100% of the time?
    You're not the only one, it drives me nuts too. I generally say "We've had no issues with that but he's a HORSE". They aren't machines, and lord knows how one will react if stung by a bee, etc.

    It also drives me nuts when we have a horse listed as "beginner/child safe", (and we're pretty darn picky on what horses we list that way), and then they ask "Does he buck or rear?". Well yes, I forgot to mention that. That's why we consider him "child safe".
    The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done".



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2009
    Location
    The Left Coast
    Posts
    3,318

    Default Does he kick/bolt/buck/bite/rear? How does he spook?

    When I was horse shopping, I ALWAYS asked these very specific questions. The reason is that despite my completely honest descriptions about the kind of horse I was looking for, and the kind of rider I was, sellers seldom volunteered this kind of information. So I would drive out to Timbuktu only to see the horse buck or rear. Or spook hard.

    "Not a beginners horse" could mean many things that are not related to misbehavior. Sensitivity or laziness, for example.

    Another reason I always asked is so the sellers would be on record as saying this horse doesn't misbehave in this specific way. A trainer I knew bought her first horse, which bolted and put her in the hospital. It turned out that the sellers knew about this and that was why the horse was for sale. She lawyered up and threatened to sue for non-disclosure and got her money back.

    I test rode a horse at my own barn that I had seen ridden by its junior owner many, many times. This horse bolted on me, I fell off and dislocated my shoulder and fractured my humerus, the effects of which I feel as I sit here and type this. It turned out this was not the first time, I had just never witnessed it. The trainer selling the horse thought it was something I could handle so he never mentioned it. They then sold the horse along to a beginner.

    So don't get sore about people asking. If your horse doesn't make a habit of trying to kill its rider, I would think you'd be happy to share that information.
    Last edited by TheHorseProblem; Oct. 1, 2011 at 06:00 PM. Reason: grammar
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2011
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    1,565

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frivian View Post
    I'm going to be the devil's advocate here... I think if I were in the market for a horse, and saw a promising looking ad that also said the horse was "not a beginner's horse", I would definitely want to know why. I'm not a beginner, so if it's just that the horse is sensitive, the horse is very opinionated, or the horse is a bit spooky, etc. then whatever. But what if it's because the horse has a rearing habit when he's upset/confused? or if he's just really, really hot? It could be any number of things that you can't tell just by reading an ad. Also, while it's true that any horse is capable of bucking/kicking/biting/bolting, some make it a habit. I would definitely want to know that, even if I'm not looking for a beginner's horse.
    This. I can deal with some vices, but others I KNOW I'm not ready/skilled enough to deal with. I feel comfortable with riding a bucker/bolter, but if there's any rearing involved I'm out. I want to know what I'm getting into, and make sure it's something I can deal with effectively/correctly rather than making it worse.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2007
    Posts
    410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1sock View Post
    It also drives me nuts when we have a horse listed as "beginner/child safe", (and we're pretty darn picky on what horses we list that way), and then they ask "Does he buck or rear?". Well yes, I forgot to mention that. That's why we consider him "child safe".
    You know you have a good reputation I may not be aware of your good/great reputation. I don't want to find out after the fact that your "child safe" and mine differ. I have an obligation to research the best way I know how and not asking questions just doesn't work for me.

    There are buyers who's first priority is to sell the horse. They may or may not 'volunteer' that the horse is known to do something dangerous or something that is considered a vice. I hope not to meet them but I have.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2005
    Posts
    2,813

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    Once this girl emailed me about a $500 mare we had listed for sale. Ad said "NEEDS EXPERIENCED RIDER - PROBABLY BEST AS BROODMARE." Girl's email read, "Does she buck/spook/bolt? Any bad habits?"

    Wait. It actually read, "dose she buck sppok or bolt? any bad habits"

    So I wrote back, "She only bucks when she's in heat."

    And never heard from her again. Huh.

    (Mare found home with a friend as a broodie.)
    It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati



  20. #20
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    Oct. 20, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frivian View Post
    I'm going to be the devil's advocate here... I think if I were in the market for a horse, and saw a promising looking ad that also said the horse was "not a beginner's horse", I would definitely want to know why. I'm not a beginner, so if it's just that the horse is sensitive, the horse is very opinionated, or the horse is a bit spooky, etc. then whatever. But what if it's because the horse has a rearing habit when he's upset/confused? or if he's just really, really hot? It could be any number of things that you can't tell just by reading an ad. Also, while it's true that any horse is capable of bucking/kicking/biting/bolting, some make it a habit. I would definitely want to know that, even if I'm not looking for a beginner's horse.
    But as a seller, I would very much appreciate if you explained your experience, what you'd use the horse for, and then asked if it seemed like this horse might work for someone like you. Or ask for them to tell you about the horse and who's been riding him/what he does best/what needs work.

    FWIW, we have NEVER sold a horse to someone who asked "does he buck, spook, kick, or bite?" I pretty much view that as a tirekicker question.
    It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati



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