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  1. #241
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Down on the Farm
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post
    I have no problem with animal control seizing a horse with a body score of 1. Note, that is not what happened here. No law enforcement seized the horse.

    If the horse was not fed, then I have no problem with the book being thrown at her.

    But if the horse had food in front of her, then I don't think a felony charge is appropriate. I don't think failure to euthanize is or should be a felony.

    I think it may be poor judgement... but I also think that the judgement is best made in person rather than by photograph.

    There are a lot of cases around here where people have older horses that are getting too thin. Usually it is not that they are not being fed, but that they are having some issue like that they need senior feed and more intense management. Often finances are a barrier, and yet the horse still has a cheerful spunk in its eye. I think it can be appropriate for Animal Control to intervene. But in many or most of these cases, it's not necessary to charge the person with a crime to get a good result for the animal.

    There's a difference between "I think this person is wrong," "I would not board with this person," and "this is felony conduct." IMHO.
    I have seen a horse with a BS of 1, and let me tell you, there is no spunk, and nothing cheerful in his eye...nada. Starving a horse is a crime, same with a dog or cat. And I for one am thankful for that.

    I'm not sure where you live, but if I drive by a farm and see a horse with a BS of 1 you better damn well know that I am calling the authorities, AC or the Sherrif, whoever will respond first.



  2. #242
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
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    Southern Pines, N.C.
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    11,422

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    Since the 1st picture was deleted from my Photobucket folder, (I have written TPTB about it) here is another picture of a horse with a body score of 1.

    Remember, if a horse looks fatter than this, it gets a score of 2. So THIS is what Gwen's old eventing partner looked like.............

    http://horseandman.com/wp-content/uploads/GRACE1.jpg
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  3. #243
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Thank you Lord Helpus, I've seen only one in person and it was the most heartbreaking thing I have ever witnessed. I too am having a hard time understanding how anyone could look at these horses and not think a crime is being commited. There is no way to justify this.



  4. #244
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2010
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Thank you Lordhelpus
    You said it how I felt it
    Poor,poor, horse.
    We take away any chance of them fending for themselves, amnd with it their pride.
    It's so very very sad



  5. #245
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2000
    Location
    Chantilly,va.
    Posts
    10,835

    Exclamation I sympathsize!

    Poltroon, I so very trongly agree with you ; and must count myself and my Merry so very fortunate; After the first stroke I had no way to get out to check on her but, depended on my neighbors' son to feed her every day, morning and night; when I finally did get out I cried; she looked very much like this horse; She'd had her teeth done on a regular basis and had a fresh new round bale of good quality timothy; most upset I looked in the feed bin and found that he boys' mother had taken hr off equine Sr. which, she had done well on for several years and put her on a plain pellet;; as a rule, she disliked pellets; I had my brother drive into town and pick up a bag of sr, ; she was started on it that very day and when, 8 days later, I next saw her again; she was in good weight, a shine to hercoat and gleam in her eye; NO bones spine or ribs showing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acertainsmile View Post
    I have seen a horse with a BS of 1, and let me tell you, there is no spunk, and nothing cheerful in his eye...nada. Starving a horse is a crime, same with a dog or cat. And I for one am thankful for that.

    I'm not sure where you live, but if I drive by a farm and see a horse with a BS of 1 you better damn well know that I am calling the authorities, AC or the Sherrif, whoever will respond first.
    Last edited by Carol Ames; Jan. 5, 2012 at 10:58 PM. Reason: typos
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans



  6. #246
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    If you are trying to get weight on a thin horse, or the horse has an illness and has lost weight and you are working on getting it to a decent weight, then even if AC is called it won't mean that the horse will be siezed.

    Generally they wont seize a horse that has access to food and water, but they will try to educate the owner, and make sure there is a follow up visit from a vet.

    To be of the mindset that all owners of thin horses are having some sort of "problem", or telling oneself that the horse must be under a vets care is a dangerous thing for some of these horses.



  7. #247

    Default

    A few days ago I opened my email and clicked on Horse.com. There in the right hand side was the sensational headline, "Olympian charged with neglect". Searching for answers turned up little, but -

    Questions worth asking:

    Are those pictures actually of Gwen's horses?
    Where and when were they taken...

    Good point that 'Valerie' has shown little improvement in her stay with the rescue

    Why did a private rescue pick the horses up?
    Why was Mendocino Count AC not called immediately? And the sheriff as well

    Where are the pictures of the horses prior to being hauled from the facility in Mendocino...

    Did she 'give' the horses away, or was she looking to place them for retirement? Who says...the rescue? Are they a reliable source?

    Did she personally haul them to the Mendocino facility? Hard to imagine if she was at a show in Los Angeles the very next day (500 miles south) as the rescue claims...

    Can anyone prove that the mare who died did so due to past care or perhaps due to neglect on the part of the rescue...aneurisms can be caused by physical trauma; are they caused by lack of feed?

    Consider the condition of the manes, tails and HOOVES of both these mares. Long manes and tails on TB's aren't easy to get and bad feet are the scourge of the breed. How do you explain the healthy condition of the old bay mares feet (you can see them in a couple of the pics) if she had been without proper feed and nutrition for months or years, as claimed...?


    I made a phone call and asked an acquaintance to attend the hearing yesterday, Jan 5, in Santa Rosa. For all the hoop la and horn blowing by the rescue crowd, there was not another person in the Courthouse...only the DA, Gwen, her attorney and my acquaintance.

    There is no doubt in my mind that there will be much come to light regarding this case and we would all be well served to reserve judgement.



  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    Oh, I see. But if she truly doesn't care about the about the welfare of the horses she can't compete with anymore, she was no business working with horses IMO. The mares that were taken in by the rescues had a body score of 3 and 1. That sort o thing doesn't happen overnight. the mare that died actually had the body score of 3 and she was euthanized after presenting stroke-like symptoms. The mare that survived is reported to be now a 3 on the Henneke Body Chart.
    The last picture I saw was dated December 8 and I would imagine this is the one referred to by those wondering why 'Valerie' looks almost the same after being with the rescue for 90 days. Could you post the information claiming the mare is now a 3 and perhaps pictures as well...I would be interested in knowing how they got that mare from a 1 to a 3 in less than 30 days.



  9. #249
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2007
    Location
    Wonderland
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    2,350

    Default

    Why don't you all just give it a rest until Feb. 6 http://da.sonoma-county.org/victim_w...235&cci=550158



  10. #250

    Default

    The latest in the Gwen Stockebrand case including a statement from her attorney.

    Judge Denies Demurrer in Gwen Stockebrand Case



  11. #251
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2011
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    1,451

    Default

    Thanks for the update!
    Let's hope the judge won't go easy on her!



  12. #252
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    Nov. 13, 2011
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    Quote Originally Posted by crystalclear View Post
    The last picture I saw was dated December 8 and I would imagine this is the one referred to by those wondering why 'Valerie' looks almost the same after being with the rescue for 90 days. Could you post the information claiming the mare is now a 3 and perhaps pictures as well...I would be interested in knowing how they got that mare from a 1 to a 3 in less than 30 days.
    Here's the full article on Rate My Horse:
    http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/news/s...horse-pro.aspx

    And if you still don't believe it is possible to have such a drastic improvement on a mare with a body score of 1, you might want to take a look at Grace's Facebook page:
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Grace-...49993988359361

    If you look through the albums you can see how in 90 days she went from this
    http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6648257_n.jpg
    to THIS:
    http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5692718_n.jpg



  13. #253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    Here's the full article on Rate My Horse:
    http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/news/s...horse-pro.aspx

    And if you still don't believe it is possible to have such a drastic improvement on a mare with a body score of 1, you might want to take a look at Grace's Facebook page:
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Grace-...49993988359361

    If you look through the albums you can see how in 90 days she went from this
    http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6648257_n.jpg
    to THIS:
    http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5692718_n.jpg
    Please look at the pictures posted by the Examiner website:

    http://www.examiner.com/horse-in-nat...slide=37746706

    Not the same horse as the pictures you posted. Different color and different hind leg has stocking foot.

    As to the incredible weight gain. According to the head nutritionist at UC Davis, the optimum rate of gain for a healthy horse is a maximum of 1 pound a day. Facts are what they are...

    Grace Foundation is no equine authority, nor is it run by one.



  14. #254
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
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    12,715

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    Me thinks there is something more going on here re: new posters

    Do I detect a witch hunt?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  15. #255
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    Nov. 13, 2011
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    Quote Originally Posted by crystalclear View Post
    Please look at the pictures posted by the Examiner website:

    http://www.examiner.com/horse-in-nat...slide=37746706

    Not the same horse as the pictures you posted. Different color and different hind leg has stocking foot.

    As to the incredible weight gain. According to the head nutritionist at UC Davis, the optimum rate of gain for a healthy horse is a maximum of 1 pound a day. Facts are what they are...

    Grace Foundation is no equine authority, nor is it run by one.
    Nope, same stocking foot. As for the color of the mare, the color of the coat on emaciated horses often changes, due the lack of fat in their bodies. Take a better look at the pictures of Grace and you will see that her coat seemed to be bay or red, when in fact it turned out to be nearly black!

    And exactly how many rescues are run by equine authorities? Just because there are no famous nutritionists running a rescue does not make their work rehabilitating severely abused and neglected horses any less valid.
    Last edited by Niennor; Jan. 6, 2012 at 09:24 PM.



  16. #256
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Down on the Farm
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    "I made a phone call and asked an acquaintance to attend the hearing yesterday, Jan 5, in Santa Rosa. For all the hoop la and horn blowing by the rescue crowd, there was not another person in the Courthouse...only the DA, Gwen, her attorney and my acquaintance. "

    And your point is what? This wasnt the hearing as far as the charges go, it was to challenge legal language in the criminal complaint, so no big surprise here. I wonder if your friend would drive out to her farm and check on the living conditions for you?



  17. #257
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
    Posts
    18

    Default

    This situation is not made simpler by the fact that there is a lot of rumors about the rescue's past actions and the fact that the founder is supposedly very connected thanks to having been a police officer (?). Probably no one is clean.



  18. #258
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2011
    Posts
    116

    Angry Absolutely terrible

    I would love to lay into the this b****, I can't even explain how sick this makes me.
    “A horse is the projection of peoples' dreams about themselves - strong, powerful, beautiful - and it has the capability of giving us escape from our mundane existence.”



  19. #259
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2009
    Posts
    266

    Default Actual California Law

    This is the actual law she is charged with.

    California Penal Code Section 597

    (a) Except as provided in subdivision (c) of this section or Section 599c, every person who maliciously and intentionally maims, mutilates, tortures, or wounds a living animal, or maliciously and intentionally kills an animal, is guilty of an offense punishable by imprisonment in the state prison, or by a fine of not more than twenty thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, or, alternatively, by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than twenty thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment. (b) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (a) or (c), every person who overdrives, overloads, drives when overloaded, overworks, tortures, torments, deprives of necessary sustenance, drink, or shelter, cruelly beats, mutilates, or cruelly kills any animal, or causes or procures any animal to be so overdriven, overloaded, driven when overloaded, overworked, tortured, tormented, deprived of necessary sustenance, drink, shelter, or to be cruelly beaten, mutilated, or cruelly killed; and whoever, having the charge or custody of any animal, either as owner or otherwise, subjects any animal to needless suffering, or inflicts unnecessary cruelty upon the animal, or in any manner abuses any animal, or fails to provide the animal with proper food, drink, or shelter or protection from the weather, or who drives, rides, or otherwise uses the animal when unfit for labor, is, for every such offense, guilty of a crime punishable as a misdemeanor or as a felony or alternatively punishable as a misdemeanor or a felony and by a fine of not more than twenty thousand dollars ($20,000).



  20. #260
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2011
    Location
    Northern Virginia
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    207

    Default

    Hello? Can we say in denial? Who cares about the rescue? The rescue is irrelevant. The charges are that this has-been, not very important used to e a contender POS is accused of neglect.

    Can we talk about the allegations against this over-the-hill-cow? I mean, really - what does it take to convince you that she effed up and gosh, maybe someone in their right mind who calls themselves a horseperson, would actually try and take care of a horse that had worked their heart out for them for a period of years?

    Really? What is there to defend here? Unless of course, you are in a similar situation and are feeling defensive? I can totally see that. You should look deeply into your soul and ask yourself if you are doing right by your horses.



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