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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
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    16,552

    Unhappy Hated to Say "No" but.....

    ...I did it anyway

    Got a call from hubby's friend asking if I would be willing to bring my Clyde-X mare, Penny, out to his son's cub scouts shebang for the boys to get "pony rides" on. The other person they had lined up backed out on them.

    While I felt sorry for him/the scouts, I just had to say "no" due to the liability. While Penny mare is a been there/done that mare, with exceptional ground manners, I just can't take the risk in this way-too litigious society. Just one wrong something and I'm sued.

    I love to show off my mare and, even more so, I love to see wee faces light up at the sight of her. Alas, law-suit happy individuals have made those days a thing of the past.

    Le

    Anyone else had to disappoint the wee ones out of fear?
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    2,084

    Default

    Me! DD had her birthday party out at the barn. Rules stipulated each child had to have a signed waiver on file before they could mount up. 2 kids did not have the waivers and their parents "forgot" to sign them. BO and I both stood firm on the no waiver no ride. Chances are they would have been fine but I and the BO were not willing to risk it. We kept them busy with the unmounted portions but they were not allowed to ride.
    Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
    Originally Posted by alicen:
    What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2005
    Posts
    2,625

    Default

    DH offers my horses up for trail riding to just about anyone *sigh* so I've gotten really good at 'backtracking' his offers. He doesn't quite 'get it' so I've just had to get crafty.

    Now he does on occasion like to use the horses for photography shoots, but under this, we are all covered by his biz liability issurance. I've also been tossing around the idea of licensing/insuring my 'barn' even though it's private use for additional coverage.

    While I'd like to protect myself from getting sued, I just as equally if not more concerned for the human being safety factor. I would HATE the thought of someone getting injured with horses and we all know with horses- anything can happen.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,552

    Default

    Fortunately SSB, Mr. C'Mare knows "The Party Line" when it comes to people asking to use my horses. He says "No" and then hands me the phone to explain why it's no."

    I'm with you too.... I'd never want to see anyone get hurt with one of my horses
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    7,869

    Default

    I am super careful about folks being around my horses, but even with the best of vigilance, things can still go wrong. So I joined USEF, which covers them under a $1 million liability policy. Local insurers can offer you the same thing so you don't have to worry about anyone going after your homeowners policy, or anything else you own for that matter.

    Chocomare, I wholeheartedly agree with what you did. Even with insurance I would have done the same.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

    http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2005
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    5,219

    Default

    I think you're both very wise not to do it. People are SO lawsuit happy. And the courts don't always recognize the inherent risk in horses.

    The rescue I volunteer for has a pony. He's taken to public demos to get the public educated & interest in horses (but no pony rides). You would not believe some of the crazy stuff I've seen people do around him. One lady was pushing a stroller with a small child in it, and she was so mesmerized by seeing an actual horse she walked the stroller right into the horse's leg.... she's so busy trying to run up to him and pet him, to heck with her kid?! Thank goodness he's the most bombproof equine on the planet. Heck, I wanted to kick her, and I'm not even a horse.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
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    30,879

    Default

    you might have been covered by the scouts tho for the occasion. But it would pay to investigate that.

    And of course, that does not keep people from picking on you either.

    man, how did we ever get into this liability hell we are in?!
    Can't breathe without somebody looking at you....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    5,401

    Default

    The whole liability thing just scares me, even though I'm a USEF member and also covered under my husband's personal liability policy.

    I don't take my horse to people, but have hosted a few at the barn who wanted to meet her, and especially kids who are doing school projects on Morgan horses. And when we go out on the trails I always let people come up and pet her. She's personable, generally easy to handle, deals with kids fine as long as they are not screaming, etc. But so far I have not given pony rides on her to anyone... my BO wouldn't be happy with that and even if she said it was OK I'd obviously have people sign a barn waiver.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 1, 2002
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    6,160

    Default

    Yup - I think the scouts have insurance for just such a thing, so as long as it is an official Scouting event/meeting, but I'd for sure check their website, for more info. When I carried my own insurance, I took my pony to VBS at church two years ago, but no one rode him.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    8,183

    Default

    Make sure that if you get signed waivers that they are signed by the custodial parent, and not another relative. I've been at events with grandparents, fiances, and other people signing waivers for kids that they have no legal right to sign a waiver for.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    Anyone else had to disappoint the wee ones out of fear?
    Yes, and it makes me wonder about the future of the horse industry.

    I hate to get all nostalgic for a rose colored past, but when I was a kid it was generous horse owners (and instructors) who nurtured a horse loving kid into a horse addicted adult. Lifetime addiction. No cure.

    Pretty sad to think that folks are so worried about being sued, that they won't even let an eager kid pet a horse. But their concern is legitimate. Waivers don't prevent an insurance company from trying to recover damages against the horse owner. Equine activity liability statutes do not protect all horse owners, and while the event organizer may have event coverage, it may not cover you or your horse. All sorts of ways you can end up losing everything.

    It's just too damn bad. But I don't think anything is going to change. In fact, I think it will get worse.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2003
    Location
    AridZona
    Posts
    2,874

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    DH offers my horses up for trail riding to just about anyone *sigh* so I've gotten really good at 'backtracking' his offers. He doesn't quite 'get it' so I've just had to get crafty.
    Next time he does that, start offering use of his golf clubs or whatever his hobby stuff might be.
    Delicious strawberry flavored death!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
    Posts
    13,787

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    I don't mind people riding my horses. I have them sign a waiver which I had written by a lawyer so I was sure that everything was covered according to the statutes in my state. I also have a million dollar liability umbrella.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
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    Default

    If it was just a "someone riding my horses," they'd sign a waiver too and wear a helmet. (Just ask SBT & Freebird! )

    But when it's 20 or more wee cub scouts, jumping up and down, shrieking and doing what wee boys do, out in a public park with my 1400 pound Clyde-X????...No way sister.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2006
    Posts
    1,621

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    I had girlscouts come here and earn their horsmemanship badges. we had 3 clydes, and 16 girls. I sent out beforehand information that no open toed shoes would be allowed, and that there were barn rules that had to be followed. We started with a safety session and talked about tack and equipment...then we cleaned stalls, then we groomed horses. It was well planned out and the girls did great. As a cubmaster/ leader for my own son's pack of 35 boys, I think that some planning and discussion beforehand could have made it work out, but erring on the side of caution was probably the best idea... I am sure that the BSA insurance would have covered the event.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Luckydonkey View Post
    I had girlscouts come here and earn their horsmemanship badges. we had 3 clydes, and 16 girls. I sent out beforehand information that no open toed shoes would be allowed, and that there were barn rules that had to be followed. We started with a safety session and talked about tack and equipment...then we cleaned stalls, then we groomed horses. It was well planned out and the girls did great. As a cubmaster/ leader for my own son's pack of 35 boys, I think that some planning and discussion beforehand could have made it work out, but erring on the side of caution was probably the best idea... I am sure that the BSA insurance would have covered the event.

    Yep. most of the kids in these programs are good about listening. And certain things are pretty much drilled into them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2003
    Location
    Mississippi, U.S.A.
    Posts
    778

    Default

    Alagirl/luckydonkey:

    When my sons were younfg, I did the same thing with a girl scout troop. The same protocol and few others tossed in from my Pony Club days. When it was over, I asked what they had learned about taking care of horses. One little girl said, "Everything." So cute. But nowadays? I don't know. Times have surely changed.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2008
    Posts
    1,808

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    I think if it's a planned outting, the scouting organizations insurance would cover it if someone was injured..

    That's how injuries were covered when my brother's were in scouts.

    considering the badges the boys can get.. Horses are probably one of the safest things they'd be around lol. (Woodcarving, Woodburning, camping stuff, etc).



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,414

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    That is something that should be verified with the insurer, prior to participation. Don't rely upon the word of a scout leader or other volunteer associated with the event.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
    Location
    NW Louisiana
    Posts
    5,190

    Default

    Yep, BIL, who is married to a witchy paralegal, asked if their 4-yo kid could ride my horses. Now, one of mine is 20 but can sometimes be unpredictable. The other was 4, and while generally very very sane, was still 4. I explained how his wife (they were separated at the time, no formal custody agreement) would sue me for everything I was worth if the horse took one bad step and precious spawn of satan kid fell off.

    I still got badmouthed to everyone who would listen to him. And still very glad I said "no way in hell".

    Now, good friend who has horses, her 3-yo had been led around on mine. But, friend has grown up around horses, and kid has been "riding" since she was a baby. I felt safe with that situation.



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