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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
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    2,537

    Default Response from USEF re: Faunti qualification at 2011 Pony Finals

    I made an inquiry with the customer care department at USEF asking if they could explain how Faunti was eligible to compete at Pony Finals. I received this response from Lori Nelson:

    "With respect to your below email, please be advised the situation you refer to, regarding the pony Faunti, was handled through the point dispute process which was done in accordance with GR1119 below. The Federation processes several point disputes each year for various reasons and they are not public record.

    GR1119 Disputes.
    1. Points are final on December 15 (should the 15th fall on a weekend, the deadline will be set for the following Monday) following each competition year or 15 days following the end of the designated Zone competition year and in the Paso Fino Division points are final on September 15 following the competition year.
    2. Any participant wishing to dispute a tabulation or qualification or disqualification must appeal the issue in writing specifying the reasons for disputing the tabulation or qualification or disqualification (the "Dispute"). Said Dispute must be received by the Federation by December 15 (should the 15th fall on a weekend, the deadline will be set for the following
    Monday) following the competition year in question, except for the Paso Fino Division for which the deadline is September 15. A Dispute must be accompanied by the required fee which is not refundable. Disputes will be referred to the CEO or Executive Director for a ruling in the first instance, who will determine if the information which is provided in the Dispute is sufficient to alter the tabulation or qualification or disqualification. If the participant is dissatisfied with the CEO's or Executive Director's ruling, the participant may submit a written request for an appeal. An appeal must be accompanied by the required fee, which will be refunded if the appeal is upheld. Appeals will be referred to the Hearing Committee or a special committee appointed by the President, whose decision is final.

    Thank you for your email and concern.

    Thanks,
    Lori Nelson
    United States Equestrian Federation, Inc.
    Assistant Executive Director, National Affiliates
    859-225-6957 direct dial
    859-231-6662 fax"

    So basically, "thanks for your interest in this matter, we're not going to explain it to you"...

    I asked her to please confirm that the USEF will be issuing no further information regarding this matter to its concerned membership.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2001
    Posts
    2,508

    Default

    I wonder how much in excess of the required fee may have been paid... I suspect even the non-public record won't have that documented.

    Thanks for inquiring and posting the response. Very interesting.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2007
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    I thought qualifying for pony finals had nothing to do with points, but that you had to be champion or reserve champion at a AA rated show or champion at a A rated show. Is this not correct now?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
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    2,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyPenny View Post
    I thought qualifying for pony finals had nothing to do with points, but that you had to be champion or reserve champion at a AA rated show or champion at a A rated show. Is this not correct now?
    Did you read the Mindy Darst thread (which, as it turns out, doesn't have terribly much to do with Mindy Darst)? Might want to start there...

    In this case, the pony's recorded owner was not a USEF or USHJA member during any of the shows at which he could have qualified, making all his points bad. She joined the USEF in July, someone filed a dispute to have the bad points made good, and magically, bad points from WEF 10 (January or February) qualified the pony to compete.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    rapidan,virginia
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    Default

    I would like to know where in the Rule Book it describes what processes ARE public record and which are not. An organization that is funded by member fees should have very few procedures that are not open to the inspection of its membership.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2004
    Posts
    10,741

    Default

    That response just confirmed what we already know, USEF is a joke. Thanks for inquirig and posting their pathetic response.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bayboys View Post
    I would like to know where in the Rule Book it describes what processes ARE public record and which are not. An organization that is funded by member fees should have very few procedures that are not open to the inspection of its membership.
    Send Ms. Nelson an email. Seriously.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2010
    Posts
    199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFrytheEqHorse View Post
    In this case, the pony's recorded owner was not a USEF or USHJA member during any of the shows at which he could have qualified, making all his points bad. She joined the USEF in July, someone filed a dispute to have the bad points made good, and magically, bad points from WEF 10 (January or February) qualified the pony to compete.
    Hmm that's interesting... last year my pony qualified when I was missing USHJA (which I rectified as soon as I found out) and I wasn't able to get his points fixed - they essentially told me 'too bad, you screwed up, no PF, end of story'.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tamarak_equestrian View Post
    Hmm that's interesting... last year my pony qualified when I was missing USHJA (which I rectified as soon as I found out) and I wasn't able to get his points fixed - they essentially told me 'too bad, you screwed up, no PF, end of story'.
    Send this in an email to Ms. Nelson as well.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
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    16,500

    Default

    Um, if the argument was accepted and the pony is getting the points... why would the basis for the petition/dispute be secret? I guess I could understand some sort of rule sealing unsucessful petitions-- but given that the petition was successful and anyone can go on usef.org and see the magic good points--what possible justification could there be for shrouding the petition with secrecy. The petition must have been based in some good basis to award the points. If so, let's know what that good basis was. Obviously there was a good justification because the USEF granted the petition.

    For heaven's sake, when someone gets their wrist slapped it gets published in the magazine for us all to gawk at. But when someone disputes points, has a good basis to do so, and the dispute is accepted and the points converted-- THAT needs to be a secret?!

    I'll say it, this is some bullshit. If there was a good reason for those points to be turned "good" fine- but IF IT'S A GOOD REASON, THERE'S NO NEED FOR IT TO BE SECRET.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2008
    Posts
    60

    Default

    This is total bull. What an organization. IMO if everything was on the up and up regarding how the pony got in, someone from Faunti's camp would have posted it IMMEDIATELY following the first post questioning it weeks ago.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2001
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    Trailer Trash Ammy!
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    19,520

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tamarak_equestrian View Post
    Hmm that's interesting... last year my pony qualified when I was missing USHJA (which I rectified as soon as I found out) and I wasn't able to get his points fixed - they essentially told me 'too bad, you screwed up, no PF, end of story'.
    Definitely ask. Be interesting to see what kind of reply you get!
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2011
    Location
    River of Jordan, Galilee
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    29

    Default

    Just like what my mother always said...."Because I said so".

    I'll say it too....This is some Bullshit!
    "Every century a witch shall be born."



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
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    11,878

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bayboys View Post
    I would like to know where in the Rule Book it describes what processes ARE public record and which are not. An organization that is funded by member fees should have very few procedures that are not open to the inspection of its membership.
    The Open Governance Committee is charged with determining such things and they more or less do whatever is in the best interest of the USEF according to the prinicples on paper and the practices in reality. They don't actually have any official rule-making power as they are simply an "advisory committee" which makes suggestions to the USEF BOD, which ironically consists of those who are also on the OGC.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2006
    Posts
    1,509

    Default it's never been what you did...

    Always been who you are, watch the suspension lists for proof of that...
    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers.
    http://bluemoongrafixva.webs.com



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 19, 1999
    Location
    Averill Park NY and Citra Fl
    Posts
    5,581

    Default

    Dear Ms. Nelson,
    Thank you for your very measured response. The question still remains, under what section of the rulebook is the process by which bad points can retroactively be made "good" points? Are the minutes to this hearing available for scrutiny? It is very sad to hear that the rationale behind the decision to allow this unqualified pony to qualify for PF magically occurred behind closed doors. It is so nice to know that justice is blind. And indeed, in this case, deaf and mute. Thank you as well for confirming what most of us already suspect, that not all memberships are created equally. We look forward to more bureaucratic gymnastics in the upcoming year.
    Sincerely,
    John and Jane Q Federationmember.
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
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    rapidan,virginia
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    Default

    The system is quite obviously corrupt.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2011
    Location
    River of Jordan, Galilee
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    29

    Default

    We already knew that. Shouldn't they be a bit more discrete about it?
    "Every century a witch shall be born."



  19. #19
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
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    rapidan,virginia
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    Default

    I have witnessed, more than once, people and organizations who consider themselves so important, so above the normal rules that you and I live by, that they stop even pretending to be discreet about their lying and cheating. They believe they are untouchable and when questioned about their actions, they become defensive and indignant. They clearly care most about their own self protection.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2003
    Location
    Woodland, Ca
    Posts
    6,257

    Default

    Oh come on now... they have to pay for that expensive new building somehow...



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