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  1. #1
    rumorhasit420 Guest

    Unhappy Violence in the show world

    I am a hunter/jumper rider who has recently (the last 3 years) attended Appaloosa Worlds and Nationals shows and the Reichart which is a Quarter/App/Paint show. I was very naive in thinking all horse shows were the same, until I started working for "top" pleasure trainers. I have seen more violence with these horses at one show than I have ever seen in my whole life on the A circuit H/J. I am just amazed at what these people do, just to get their horses to go around 3 times at each gate on the flat. Bloody mouths, bloody sides, tied around in the stalls all day, hung from the stalls to make their necks tired, injected tails with everclear...not even the half of it. I understand that it is a different discipline, and they believe this is training, but is there a point to draw the line? They say there is violence in all disciplines, but I just don't see it...



  2. #2
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    I'm a little apprehensive responding to a topic this "heated", especially by a first time poster (which makes me question your intentions..) but this is all exactly why I will never show a horse under saddle at ANY breed show. I've shown Hunter-In-Hand a couple times, but it's kind of pointless.

    I was at a "good" barn for a couple years and saw things that still make me cringe.



  3. #3
    rumorhasit420 Guest

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    I don't intend to create arguements at all, I was just hoping to open the eyes of people because I certainly did not know any of this even went on. I don't want to create bashing on the pleasure world, just so frustraited as to why this has not yet come to a stop...



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumorhasit420 View Post
    I don't intend to create arguements at all, I was just hoping to open the eyes of people because I certainly did not know any of this even went on. I don't want to create bashing on the pleasure world, just so frustraited as to why this has not yet come to a stop...
    Then why keep doing it for 3 years?
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumorhasit420 View Post
    I don't want to create bashing on the pleasure world, just so frustraited as to why this has not yet come to a stop...
    Maybe because people post about it anonymously on the internet after the fact, instead of speaking up at the time to someone who could do something about it, like a show manager or steward?



  6. #6
    rumorhasit420 Guest

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    Very true...I was told to take pictures and show a steward? But it's also apparent that they know what is going on, because they have back-gate checks where they check the fake tails, the size of the bit, etc. And when one trainer gets kicked out of one pleasure breed for being too violent, they just go to the next...



  7. #7
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    Why participate if it is that violent/brutal..and why the h*ll are you working for a "top" trainer who participates in it...and you are implying EVERYBODY does it.

    And what, exactly, is your point? YOU are in a place to say and maybe do something. We are sitting around at a computer and most don't even know anybody on those circuits let alone have the opportunity to go to the office and file a complaint with the steward or association representative or write a letter as a member.

    I used to show breed-QH, Paint, Ayrab shows and did NOT do any such things (won LOTS). My friends who still show them do not do any such things either (win LOTS).

    Kind of like the TWH threads...we can't do anything about it over in H/J land.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumorhasit420 View Post
    I am a hunter/jumper rider who has recently (the last 3 years) attended Appaloosa Worlds and Nationals shows and the Reichart which is a Quarter/App/Paint show. I was very naive in thinking all horse shows were the same, until I started working for "top" pleasure trainers. I have seen more violence with these horses at one show than I have ever seen in my whole life on the A circuit H/J. I am just amazed at what these people do, just to get their horses to go around 3 times at each gate on the flat. Bloody mouths, bloody sides, tied around in the stalls all day, hung from the stalls to make their necks tired, injected tails with everclear...not even the half of it. I understand that it is a different discipline, and they believe this is training, but is there a point to draw the line? They say there is violence in all disciplines, but I just don't see it...
    You watched this for three years and now your response is to come on the H/J board of COTH and talk about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by rumorhasit420 View Post
    I don't intend to create arguements at all, I was just hoping to open the eyes of people because I certainly did not know any of this even went on. I don't want to create bashing on the pleasure world, just so frustraited as to why this has not yet come to a stop...
    Since most of us on the H/J board have limited experience with or influence on the pleasure word, we might not be the best people to go to if you want things changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by rumorhasit420 View Post
    Very true...I was told to take pictures and show a steward? But it's also apparent that they know what is going on, because they have back-gate checks where they check the fake tails, the size of the bit, etc. And when one trainer gets kicked out of one pleasure breed for being too violent, they just go to the next...
    So you're saying that you did take pictures and show a steward? What was the response?



  9. #9
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    err...brand new poster with funky screen name and 3 posts, all on here, on a BB with nothing at all to do with Appy shows?

    Think we are being had here. Trollish, don't give it a spoon to stir the pot with.

    See a problem, be willing to solve it or be a part of it.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumorhasit420 View Post
    Very true...I was told to take pictures and show a steward? But it's also apparent that they know what is going on, because they have back-gate checks where they check the fake tails, the size of the bit, etc. And when one trainer gets kicked out of one pleasure breed for being too violent, they just go to the next...
    So that's a reason to do nothing?!? Then come on here and ask why it continues?



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    err...brand new poster with funky screen name and 3 posts, all on here, on a BB with nothing at all to do with Appy shows?

    Think we are being had here. Trollish, don't give it a spoon to stir the pot with.

    See a problem, be willing to solve it or be a part of it.
    haha. i just noticed the 420....
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcporter View Post
    haha. i just noticed the 420....
    You had me so confused, but now I get ya

    We were all new once, but this is definitely not how you want to introduce yourself. It's hard to know where to post questions about pleasure classes and breed shows on this BB since there is no real forum for it, but H/J is probably the last one I would have asked this question on.
    Southern Cross Guest Ranch
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  13. #13
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    What is wrong with you people?????????

    Oh my goodness CALM DOWN!!!!!!

    Seriously, since when is "stirring the pot" a bad thing? Must a forum be only boring posts from oblivious people about where to find a barn in the states and regions with the most good barns? Is that how you self proclaimed forum masters want to keep it? Well you are crazy. Maybe the H&J forum wasn't the best place to put this topic, but do you all have to scream "BURN THEM AT THE STAKE" the second something controversial comes up? You do this all the time. I don't know the OP, so get over that excuse before you even try to use it.

    Now on topic- I assume since you work for a trainer in this show world you probably don't want to get kicke out and have him/her bash your name? I'd still do something, go out and just tell them off straight up. Sounds very rash and immature, but how else will the wake up (if they even wake up)?
    "The best pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die!"
    ----> Pre



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoingUp...POP! View Post
    What is wrong with you people?????????

    Oh my goodness CALM DOWN!!!!!!

    Seriously, since when is "stirring the pot" a bad thing?
    Use thy search function, grasshopper. That pot was stirred (smoked?) a long time ago, many times over. No need to load another bowl.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  15. #15
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    Yup, this topic has come up many, many times on these forums (usually not H/J though). Use the search function to see what all of us have had to contribute to the above mentioned topics. But, really, you come across a little to "OMG! All these horrible people, doing horrible things and all I could do is watch...for 3 years!" Seriously?
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!



  16. #16
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    but this is all exactly why I will never show a horse under saddle at ANY breed show.
    That's a broad brush I show at Morgan shows and quite enjoy them.
    Stacy



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    Maybe because people post about it anonymously on the internet after the fact, instead of speaking up at the time to someone who could do something about it, like a show manager or steward?
    That sounds about right.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by emgjoker View Post
    That's a broad brush I show at Morgan shows and quite enjoy them.
    Stacy
    Morgan shows are AWESOME!



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    Yup, this topic has come up many, many times on these forums (usually not H/J though). Use the search function to see what all of us have had to contribute to the above mentioned topics. But, really, you come across a little to "OMG! All these horrible people, doing horrible things and all I could do is watch...for 3 years!" Seriously?
    I must admit as someone who is a relatively new poster and also not based in the US, I was a bit taken aback at the reaction to the OP too.
    Not all of us have been on this board long enough to know that this subject has come up before, equally not all of us are remotely familiar with any of the Western Disciplines other than thinking they look like fun.
    Therefore if there IS this level of abuse going on in this discipline, surely it's no harm to have raised the issue to one new person???? Instead of berating the OP?

    It's like the Tennesse Walking Horse situation. Believe it or not, nowhere else really runs these classes, so it's only been through bulletin boards and the internet that the cruel practices that SOME people employ have been outed.
    As far as I can see TWH is also used in touristy things like parades - if more people around the world learn of the cruel methods that CAN be applied and choose not to support them, then it might just help to make an impact.



  20. #20
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    OP IS in a very good position to take action as a member of that association actually a witness (or so she says), we are not. This is a Hunter Jumper board and, far as I know, nobody on here actively attends Appaloosa shows- so we do not really "support" them anyway. TWH shows either for that matter. We mostly jump.

    For those that are newer on the board...posters with very few posts who condemn a whole segment of the industry with outrageous claims of public and widespread abuse???? Usually not looking for any solutions or to educate anybody about a real problem. Trying to shock and maybe start a fight with anybody who wishes to defend that segment.

    It is considered trollish to slam an entire segment of the horse community by accusing "everybody" of these dire deeds-while sitting and watching it in person and doing nothing.

    If nothing else, this post about mostly Western horses at mostly Western shows should have gone over on Off Course. Somebody over there might actually go to Appy shows.

    Oh, if there are TWHs doing "touristy" things and parades? Those are not the ones involved in some of their crap...why punish them and put them out of work?? Like forming an opinion of appys and their owners based on this train wreck. But maybe that was the intent.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



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