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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2009
    Posts
    173

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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    What does drive me nuts is when, usually by an experienced member of the hunt or one with colors, someone has a horse that kicks, they put a ribbon in its tail and then ride at the front or middle of the field.
    THIS. I've also known of people who used red ribbons to discourage tailgaters; these sometimes rode in the middle or front, then would tell the people who spent all day trying to steer clear of them that actually their horses didn't kick--which also has the insidious effect of tempting some to discount red ribbons. Use 'em if you need 'em, and, if you need that ribbon, put your horse in back and in the clear.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2008
    Location
    (The Woodlands - Tomball, Tx)
    Posts
    1,162

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    Beverly, I'd seen this horse quite a bit in the arena a couple of years ago, and it gave the occasional high-spirted type kick-out during a course after a jump, and also bucked or bunny-hopped some times.

    In its first two hunts its taken some all out double-barrels at other horses. It didn't connect because we know it is new to hunting and no one got real close. To me, those kicks were vicious so I termed it a vicious kicker. The rider has been told to keep her horse at the rear, and does. The kicks came when we were milling around at a stand.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct. 1, 2005
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    5,963

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    Quote Originally Posted by altjaeger View Post

    In its first two hunts its taken some all out double-barrels at other horses. It didn't connect because we know it is new to hunting and no one got real close. To me, those kicks were vicious so I termed it a vicious kicker. The rider has been told to keep her horse at the rear, and does. The kicks came when we were milling around at a stand.
    Okay, just to make sure I have got it- rider has already been told- keep to the rear- and does so. So far so good (although if it were me and I were serious about hunting I would lose such a horse in a hurry). But at checks, rider STILL needs to stay clear of everyone else- did issues at checks happen before or after rider was told to keep to the rear? If before then sounds to me like MFHs addressed problem by clarifying, keep to the rear. If after- well, rider is getting a bit sloppy and perhaps either forgetting or inconsiderate at checks. Not good.

    But circling back to the initial query- if this is a horse that kicks at other horses in group situations, and owner wanted to TRY to cure it- well, first, find a group of willing (and knowledgeable) volunteers on a non- hunting day, set horse up in a situation where it would try to kick, and provide the appropriate Come To Jesus moment. And I do mean make that horse think is it headed for the pearly gates. Rinse and repeat over course of that same ride and repeat rides. If progress appears to be coming, you still press the message- have volunteers venture closer in TINY and SAFE increments, e.g. passing on trail but with appropriate buffer- horse makes malicious move, horse gets another CTJ moment. Easy enough to tell if horse gets message. But even if seemingly 'cured,' that horse should ALWAYS be ridden in the rear, WITH red ribbon in tail, and well away from others at the meet and at checks. And it shouldn't ever be anywhere within 1/2 mile of a hound (leastwise that would be my edict were I queen) and if a hound comes along that rider No Matter What makes sure that horse's business end is where it cannot meet hound.

    Though really if I were queen I would have a friendly chat with horse owner and say 'you know, you really need to get (or lease) a non-kicker for hunting so you can really have some fun.'



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,651

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    All Hail the Queen!! Long Live the Queen!



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2002
    Location
    Canada!!
    Posts
    271

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverley View Post
    But circling back to the initial query- if this is a horse that kicks at other horses in group situations, and owner wanted to TRY to cure it- well, first, find a group of willing (and knowledgeable) volunteers on a non- hunting day, set horse up in a situation where it would try to kick, and provide the appropriate Come To Jesus moment. And I do mean make that horse think is it headed for the pearly gates. Rinse and repeat over course of that same ride and repeat rides. If progress appears to be coming, you still press the message- have volunteers venture closer in TINY and SAFE increments, e.g. passing on trail but with appropriate buffer- horse makes malicious move, horse gets another CTJ moment. Easy enough to tell if horse gets message. But even if seemingly 'cured,' that horse should ALWAYS be ridden in the rear, WITH red ribbon in tail, and well away from others at the meet and at checks. And it shouldn't ever be anywhere within 1/2 mile of a hound (leastwise that would be my edict were I queen) and if a hound comes along that rider No Matter What makes sure that horse's business end is where it cannot meet hound.
    '
    THIS!! There IS something that can be done about kickers. This is the 'cure' approach. I also suggest a 'buffer' approach for some, in which said kicker comes out with a pasture buddy who is ALWAYS the kicker's tail. This approach usually works best for a couple who's horse's are attached anyway.

    Dressage whips can be very useful for kickers. Lets you target the offending leg and really make a point without disrupting the rest of the ride and is best used when horse pins ears and starts to hitch a hip, as preventative. Tap, tap is the warning before WHAP WHAP if horse does try to get a leg out.

    Kickers should also be very maneuverable with leg and seat aids, so that the rider can easily relocate the horse's bum during checks and runs. This horse should be exceptional at swinging its hips into the bushes as hounds move through or making space so that someone can reach the flask. I do think horses who have kicked in the past can be members of the hunt field, but it is a double-time job for the rider since ultimately, a kicking horse is the rider's responsibility.

    If the owner does not feel able or willing to fix this situation, then find a hunting professional and let said pro hunt the horse for a month. If the owner sees that the horses behaviour can be altered and controlled she should be more willing to enforce good behaviour. Some riders seem to have an 'oh its just him' kind of attitude which is NOT ACCEPTABLE. In this case it really is rider, not horse, who needs a tune up though



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2010
    Location
    Northland, New Zealand
    Posts
    164

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    Quote Originally Posted by dawglover View Post
    Having had to bury a couple of hounds that got mortally injured by a kicking horse, and having had to rehome a couple more that were totally put off hunting after getting the daylights kicked out of them, I still say there's no place for a kicker in the hunt field.

    Hounds don't know what that red ribbon in the tail means, nor do they expect to get clouted if they are trying to work their way through the field to get back to their huntsman.
    We had this happen towards the end of this season - partner had to shoot a hound due to injuries sustained from a kick. Nothing infuriates me more than riders sitting around gossiping whilst hounds are making their way through to the huntsman. Even calls of "hounds coming through" doesn't distract them from their conversations. No matter how often they are told to turn their horses heads towards hounds, some of them just don't seem to give a damn. My partner read the above-mentioned person the riot act when it happened (he's the huntsman) but even then she didn't bother correcting her horses behaviour. OK, rant over .... as you were



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 1999
    Location
    Lovely Virginia
    Posts
    184

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    I am a MFH and a Field Master that has had to deal with newbies and kickers last season. The owners were long time members, but the riders were newbies. In both cases, the horses double barreled, but didn't connect. The owner was reprimanded and told the horse had to be at the very back of the field the next time it hunted.

    If one kicks a hound it pretty much is banned from the hunt field for life.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2010
    Location
    Northland, New Zealand
    Posts
    164

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    How I wish our Master would take the same approach!



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