[Skyedragon]

And cheap way out.

Good thing I decided it was worth the 2 hour round trip drive to try one of these saddles before I bought one online.

At first everything looked good:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...825_134915.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...825_134923.jpg

Until I got her up to the mounting block. Usually she dances around (working on that) but today she just stood there. Got on asked her to move off, nothing...asked her to move off a little harder...reluctant step forward...really asked her to walk forward and she trotted five steps, stopped and looked back at me as if to say "mom get this thing off of me."

My added weight was making the tree points dig into her. Got off and back to the tack shop this one goes.

Have two more saddles on trial from the saddle fitter. One is a really nice buffalo leather saddle that I am super excited to try on her tomorrow. So the saddle saga continues. So much for my hopes of getting a good deal on a wintec! I am guessing that this rules on bates and collegiate too.

Surprisingly the tree shape fit her beautifully. I was shocked consider how straight they are.

[jn4jenny]

Did you try putting a wider gullet plate in it? It doesn't look like a godawful fit, except that it's much too narrow up front. Which would, predictably, make the mare reluctant to move forward.

[Skyedragon]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that it had the extra wide gullet in it. They do make extra extra wide, but from what I have read its a no-no to put the extra extra wide gullet into anything but the actual wintec wide saddle.

[mp]

I understand how frustrating saddle fit is. I have a round round round Arabian and it took forever to find something to fit him.

However --and I don't mean to be rude -- you really need to educate your eye on what "looks good" in saddle fit. In the side photo, that saddle is sitting up way too high in front. And that means it's way too narrow, as the prev. poster pointed out.

If you had the widest gullet in (I think it's white) you can scratch this saddle off your list. If not and the panels fit pretty well, then you might give it another try with the wider gullet.

Just saw your post. Yeah, scratch Wintecs off the list. And the wide ones are ridiculously wide. I don't know that I've ever seen a horse wide enough to use one of those.

[paulaedwina]

Sounds like the Kincaid I tried on Fella. When I set it on him it looked great. When I sat on it the tree collapsed and mashed the saddle into his shoulders so much that his shoulders bulged out. It felt like I was riding a treeless saddle.

Paula

[Petstorejunkie]

So get a wintec wide with the xxw gullet plate in.

[arabiansrock]

Try the thorowgood broadback from dover you can figure out which gullet plate you would need by doing a whither tracing and laying it over template on thorowgood.com

[CatPS]

Check out the Duett saddles (www.duettsaddles.com)... specifically made for wide horses. They're pretty nice saddles and are reasonably priced. I've heard nothing but positive things about them, and I know that they've been lifesavers for some people with those impossible-to-fit wide horses.

[Skyedragon]

The next step (after trying the two saddles I have from the saddle fitter) I think will be to try the duett. Just trying to eliminate everything I can that is local.

[jn4jenny]

Skyedragon, I've been lurking in your saddle fit threads but haven't been saying much. I sort of regret that now because I have some suggestions for you. So far I've gathered that

--the mare is wide enough to not fit into the Wintec XW gullet and only barely fit in a Toulouse Verona (as in based on the pics that I saw, I wouldn't have bought the Verona but it was the closest you've come so far to something that fits)

--you need at least an 18" seat and room for your thigh

--budget is $700, possibly a bit more for the right match

--mare has a big wither but is otherwise pretty flat in her topline.

With that resume, I would look at the two following saddles:

Thornhill Vienna II. It's one of the few sub-$1000 saddles out there that's genuinely built to fit a wide horse (it's built on a u-shaped tree) AND accommodate a wither at the same time. It comes in an 18" and 19" seat and has a fairly non-intrusive thigh block, which should give you ample room for your leg. Retails at $940. Several reps will let you take this on trial; I like Cordia Pearson at saddlefitter.com because she's a highly qualified saddle fitter, but Pinnacle Horseware has a slightly better price on the saddle.
http://www.saddlefitter.com/vienna_ii.htm
http://shop.pinnaclehorseware.com/se...eywords=vienna

Thorowgood T4, T6, or T8 Dressage models, potentially either the standard models or the high wither models. These are adjustable-gullet models but they go wider than the Wintec adjustable system, and they all retail in the sub-$900 range. A number of their US stockists are also excellent saddle fitters and can probably arrange for a trial. If it were my problem and I were looking for a demo, I would call Dutchess Saddle and Bridle, Trumbull Mountain, Hastilow USA, and M&M Tack Shop in that order. http://www.thorowgood.com/stockists_usa.html

I'm sure people are going to bombard you to look at Duett saddles, but I would not suggest Duett for this particular mare unless you're going to look at their Fidelio, which is the only dressage model they have that would be likely to accommodate your horse's wither shape. Unfortunately, that saddle is well out of your stated $700 budget. By the time you crank the Largo, Aria, or Encore wide enough to accommodate your horse's width, you won't have a prayer for clearing this horse's wither. You do see withery horses running around in those models, but it tends to be in the narrower tree sizes (medium and medium wide). Nonetheless, a call to Nancy at Duett would probably be useful to you, if only because she is very experienced with this shape of horse and might be able to suggest alternatives in other brands.

[arabiansrock]

jn4jenny
you think this horses wither is too high for the broadback model? If that is the case then I would suggest the standard because the hi wither tree has just a bit of scoop to it, it isn't as flat as the standard. Trumbull mtn only carries broadback and hi wither. Dover has standard tree.

[Skyedragon]

The thornhill reminds me a lot of the saddle I currently have on trial, a classic saddlery vivian (theyre on sale, only reason I have one): http://www.classicsaddlery.com/saddl...ageclassic.htm

I think the thornhill may have a slightly more u-shape to it though. I think that is why the toulouse verona fit her the best of everything so far as it had a more u-shaped tree to it than any other toulouse saddle I have ever seen.

I also have a toulouse aachen on trial. It fits me wonderfully, but she hated the aachen in an extra wide when I tried it on her (girl at the barn had one for sale). Hopefully it was just too wide for Skye. I guess I am lucky that my mare makes it easy to know when something is bothering her.

Thorowgood are "eh" in my head. I like the T6 models, but people still want a small fortune for one. The T4 models always looks so worn out when I see them up for sale used, and the flaps looks plasicy while the seat and knee roll look clothy. Of course I have never seen one in person, but that has always been my impression of them.

[mswillie]

With that resume, I would look at the two following saddles:

Thornhill Vienna II. It's one of the few sub-$1000 saddles out there that's genuinely built to fit a wide horse (it's built on a u-shaped tree) AND accommodate a wither at the same time. It comes in an 18" and 19" seat and has a fairly non-intrusive thigh block, which should give you ample room for your leg. Retails at $940. Several reps will let you take this on trial; I like Cordia Pearson at saddlefitter.com because she's a highly qualified saddle fitter, but Pinnacle Horseware has a slightly better price on the saddle.
http://www.saddlefitter.com/vienna_ii.htm
http://shop.pinnaclehorseware.com/se...eywords=vienna

Love mine. My horse has a massive shoulder going into an average shaped wither then spreading out into a flat, slightly longish back. He's got a rather short stride naturally but the first time I put this saddle on him he felt significantly more free in the shoulder and back. The price is reasonable and the saddle is of decent quality for the price. Definitely worth a try.

[buck22]

Your mare is shaped like this U
those saddles (wintec, aachen) have gullets that look like this V

The Rembrandt, unless they have a hoop tree I'm not privy to, also will not fit.

A U shape goes around and contours the shape of her round shoulders. If you set a V on shoulders shaped like U the points of the V will dig down into the soft flesh and she will respond the way she did.

The Wintec, and the Rembrandt look more or less like this:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...n/IMG_3137.jpg
(this is an XW Aachen)

You need to look at saddles that look like this:
County #4 tree

MW Black Country

Farrington

JC Berlin (too wide for your mare but good example of hoop)


See the difference in shape? Don't bother considering anything that isn't U shaped because you'll just get the same reaction every time out of your horse. Learn to know what to look for.

Again, on your budget, your options are limited for a hoop tree, MT Verona, Jorge Canaves or Thornhill, Duett.

I have a leather Thorowgood broadback, and you know, its really not that U shaped.

If you are a clever ebayer and know exactly what to look for, you can find a good deal used. But again, remember, you're not just buying a U shaped gullet, you also need flat front to back and very likely gusseted panels.

Of the 4 U gullet photos I shared above only the Farrington and BC would have fit your mare, the JC and County are too curvy. And you would have liked the Farrington, its the only hoop tree I've ever ridden that had a narrow twist and a long flap. I sold that saddle on ebay well under $600 iirc.

hope this is helpful, good luck!

[Skyedragon]

Emailed on this one: http://www.horseclicks.com/saddles/z6f6mp/ its even in my state.

Will keep an eye out for Thornhill and I have been emailing back and forth on a Duett Allegro in a 36cm tree. Seller was at a horse show all week though. She's only asking $500 CAN.

[alto]

Duett Allegro in a 36cm tree. Seller was at a horse show all week though. She's only asking $500 CAN.

Obtiain some shipping quotes first, especially if saddle doesn't fit & you need to pay the return as well.
It may be very well worth your time to contact Duett first re saddle fitting (they willl be able to recommend models & widths)

If you want to focus on dressage with this mare, hold out for a dressage saddle that fits your budget, otherwise you'll be saddle shopping again in a year or so

Personally I'd just follow jn4jenny's very sage advice

[kris0227]

Check out the Duett saddles (www.duettsaddles.com)... specifically made for wide horses. They're pretty nice saddles and are reasonably priced. I've heard nothing but positive things about them, and I know that they've been lifesavers for some people with those impossible-to-fit wide horses.

I second this!! I LOVE my Duett and so do my horses. Because the tree is shaped like an upside down U instead of an upside V, it tends to fit bigger shouldered guys too.

Editing to add: I have the Duett Fidelio which has a narrower tree and has clearance for withers more so than the other models. I second the suggestion to call Nancy at Duett, she is super helpful! I used to ride in a Kieffer Lech Proffi that had a pretty narrow twist, and the Duett is just as comfy for me on my big shouldered mare.

[Kodidog763]

I had a medium wide Thornhill Vienna II, and really liked it, but word of caution - it did NOT have enough wither clearance for my unnaturally wide Thoroughbred (who does not really have substantial withers at all). Ended up having to move to the Thornhill Danube for this mare. I much preferred (for me) the Vienna to the Danube, but it just wouldn't provide the clearance.

[Skyedragon]

What about the wintec wide?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...826_142633.jpg

Or still too a-frame?

[Hampton Bay]

The Wintec Wide is still V-shaped, and the twist is supposed to be VERY wide.

But the Wintec in the pics obviously doesn't fit. See how there is space at the sides of her withers between her and the panel? That's not good. I think you would be well-served to involve a good saddle fitter.