[reay6790]

So...long story short, my horse has had ulcers since December of 2006 after a traumatic injury.

For over a year, the vet told us there was nothing we could do when he colicked (didn't even know he had ulcers)

Then from 2008-2010 we just gave 1/2 tube GG at shows and he had treatment for ulcers (full 28 days 1 tube etc etc) 3 or 4 times but he was still colicking about 1-5 times a year.

So fast forward to Nov 2010, he colicked at a show on gastro gard. he was eating Equine Senior and strongid and a bunch of other stuff including 1 scoop (preventative dose) of omeprazole powder

we took him off senior, put him on free choice hay, more turn out, alfalfa pellets/ultium mix and took him off all supplements for the time being.

he hasn't colicked since *knocking on wood*

however, he has gotten a little burpy since july which indicates that he is ulcery again. he is hard to judge when its not winter (bad coat) by his appearance because he stays fat all year. he burps and tucks up when his tummy hurts.

it turns out he was wormed without our knowledge and everything went belly up. he is now getting V/M, neigh-lox, fastrack, smartomega3, and dried cabbage (don't know if this is helping but we added it in about a month ago after he started getting ulcery and he hasn't gotten any worse...but not any better that i know of)

so hes been on a full tube of UG for...10 days now, and we are looking into the pop rocks vs the compounded powder yet again and feeding with a buffer for it to work better.

any thoughts on this? i have read a lot of topics here on pop rocks, but mom (i'm in college and she takes care of him monday-friday when i'm 3 hrs away) is VERY hesitant about buying from somewhere outside of the US.

can i use neigh-lox or tums with the omeprazole powder? he gets tums (10 1000 mg and alf pellets) before i ride and he thinks they are the best thing since stud muffins. neigh-lox tastes bad and is expensive :/ (why am i talking about expensive...we have probably spent 10k+ in gastrogard...)

i would most likely be able to get the omeprazole powder at cost. does anyone know how much more or less it is than pop rocks?

the omeprazole powder was working for a while (going back to 2010), but he always gets more sick during the winter which i think i should have upped the dose (didn't know about it or that i could). plus he was basically eating poison from the strongid, and senior which is like pure sugar.

right now he is getting .5 scoop Alfa pellet and .5 scoop ultium 2x a day, but i'd like to get that down i think or at least bump the ultium down.

he also eats out of freedom feeders which allow him to eat all the time in his stall bc hes at a show barn.

at shows he gets 1 full tube 3 days before a show, during the show, and it gets tapered down after he gets home. (have had bad results taking him off cold turkey after hes been on them 10-18 days at shows)

thoughts? commments? tips? help?!! just in the past 8 months have we figured out a LOT of this. he is showing about 10-15 weeks out of the year, so it's imperative that he is as healthy as possible.

[reay6790]

also, lately when i try to search "omeprazole" or things like that i only get like 8 results. i have no idea why...anyone else??

[stryder]

You're asking a fairly complicated question and I am not a vet. Have you talked with your vet about this?

But, here is what I do know: the omeprazole reduces the amount of acid a horse produces. Tums and some of the other stuff neutralizes the acid that's produced. Personally I would treat the problem one way or another, not both. I have chosen to keep my mare on the "blue pop rocks." It's working well at a cost I'm willing to pay.

India has very high standards for pharmaceuticals. That should not be a concern.

Here is one of the original threads:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=293029

Maybe some of the others will chime in.

Good luck.

[deltawave]

Everyone has their own comfort level with things that are "foreign", but I'd lay money on the fact that quality control, purity, and adherence to manufacturing standards is a lot higher in a pharmaceutical plant in Vanuatu or India than it is in a good number of red-white-and-blue supplement plants. Why? Regulation. There is virtually NONE for nutraceuticals in this country.

Give me the pop rocks over the supplement-du-jour, every time. Heck, my own medications come from India!

[reay6790]

Thanks guys.

I have consulted many vets, however most of the ones around here know very little about ulcers. they recommend usual 28 days GG and equine senior feed. and that is all.

the one from Mississippi State University switched us over to ultium and told us about the worming/cox-1 inhibitors/etc

i was more wondering if anyone was doing the omeprazole with the buffer. i would try the pop rocks in a heart beat but i do not have complete control. the reason i want to do the buffer is to hope that for that 30 min while in the stomach, the omeprazole can pass through without being destroyed.

[kgro632]

A Vet told you to put an horse with ulcers on Senior!! Yikes! Sugar irritates ulcers and will make them worse. As will being stalled.

Have you thought of feeding Alfalfa?

Or moving him to just turnout.

It sounds like something in his managemnet really needs to be changed. You can treat and even cure the ulcers, but if you don't change whatever is causing them it's kind of a mute point...

I wish you much luck and a healthy horse!

It's a tough sistuation, but there is a wealth of information out there, tons of threads on this forum.

[altershmalter]

Pretty sure you need to give the tums at least 2 hours before or after the omeprazole.

[deltawave]

Nope, Tums or other buffers can and should be given if you're using "naked" omeprazole. This is the theory behind the newest iteration of PPIs, Zegerid: a buffer for the omeprazole to raise the pH quickly and give the omeprazole a better chance of survival through the stomach.

[reay6790]

A Vet told you to put an horse with ulcers on Senior!! Yikes! Sugar irritates ulcers and will make them worse. As will being stalled.

Have you thought of feeding Alfalfa?

Or moving him to just turnout.

It sounds like something in his managemnet really needs to be changed. You can treat and even cure the ulcers, but if you don't change whatever is causing them it's kind of a mute point...

I wish you much luck and a healthy horse!

It's a tough sistuation, but there is a wealth of information out there, tons of threads on this forum.

im hoping to move up the alfalfa pellets and move down the ultium. but i need to see if he can maintain weight like that,

he lives at a show barn, and he has to stay there because my trainer rides him during the week (1-2 times). he is on night turnout.

[reay6790]

Nope, Tums or other buffers can and should be given if you're using "naked" omeprazole. This is the theory behind the newest iteration of PPIs, Zegerid: a buffer for the omeprazole to raise the pH quickly and give the omeprazole a better chance of survival through the stomach.

Thank you for the info i appreciate it!!!! ideally i would put him on pop rocks but i dont know if thats going to happen :/

[davistina67]

im hoping to move up the alfalfa pellets and move down the ultium. but i need to see if he can maintain weight like that,

he lives at a show barn, and he has to stay there because my trainer rides him during the week (1-2 times). he is on night turnout.

You should be feeding regular alfalfa, not pellets. The baled alfalfa is more effective in buffering the stomach acid.

[reay6790]

he gets alfalfa too and free choice grass/orchard

[fxhtr]

First off, the Purina equine senior I cant imagine causes the colic bc thats what UGA uses on all of their post op colic horses since it expands into a nice soup and has alfalfa in it and gets the intestines moving along. What is bad for one such as yours is the sugar bc of ulcers.

I agree with "Davistina", keep him on alfalfa but Id only give a handful of low sugar/carb, high fat feed. Some feed do not tell sugar content, so you have to call the distributors or company. Seminole puts out a great pellet that expands rapidly called HDF/Wellness line. Id also make sure the alfalfa is always wet, feeding whatever type of alfalfa in a soup consistency in a large bucket.

Ive used Gastro Guard years ago on a horse and unfortunately it didnt work, but almost totally cutting his grain, giving smaller wet hay throughout the 24hrs made a world of difference. Jingles.

[reay6790]

i would think the ulcers cause the colic...and the ulcers get worse bc of all the sugar in the senior


who uses a buffer with omeprazole powder? neigh-lox? tums? any difference?

[babecakes]

ideally i would put him on pop rocks but i dont know if thats going to happen :/

OMG the sky is falling! somebody needs some mind expansion. I've used pop rocks and they are wonderful as have many other very knowledgeable CoTHers here. Affordable & safe (no one here has reported a single case of horse upset!). And most people report that THEY WORK too.

Just keep going in circles until you get it figured out. Meanwhile, for the horse's sake, you could be getting on with things.

[reay6790]

OMG the sky is falling! somebody needs some mind expansion. I've used pop rocks and they are wonderful as have many other very knowledgeable CoTHers here. Affordable & safe (no one here has reported a single case of horse upset!). And most people report that THEY WORK too.

Just keep going in circles until you get it figured out. Meanwhile, for the horse's sake, you could be getting on with things.

as i said previously, i am not the ultimate deciding factor. i am a college student and do not foot the bills. no need to try to make me feel guilty about my "horse's sake." where i live are limited sources of information concerning ulcers. i had to go to professionals states away to find any information, and most of his lifestyle changes are things i researched and discovered by myself.

i said i would like to use the pop rocks. unfortunately, i am not allowed to do that. he is on a full tube of gastrogard right now, so he is fine. he is not suffering.

[babecakes]

we are looking into the pop rocks vs the compounded powder yet again and feeding with a buffer for it to work better.

any thoughts on this? i have read a lot of topics here on pop rocks, but mom (i'm in college and she takes care of him monday-friday when i'm 3 hrs away) is VERY hesitant about buying from somewhere outside of the US.

Sorry I did read all of your opening post I just did not quote everything. I know it's not you, it's your mother who is unconvinced.

where i live are limited sources of information concerning ulcers. i had to go to professionals states away to find any information, and most of his lifestyle changes are things i researched and discovered by myself.

So why not use these internet resources to help her gain more information -- since you are asking . Isn't that the whole point of your post? If people are giving good advice about a product then I was questioning not using it (the advice). And I am referring to the part about your mother's reluctance. I bet that she is using a whole lot of products that are made overseas in whole or in just parts!

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=309421

[Discobold]

I understand the connection to Cox-1 (and Cox-2) inhibitors, but can someone explain the connection to wormers? (And, yes, I've tried to read all the old threads )

I'm treating my mare for ulcers "just in case" after she was on two weeks of Bute and seemed NQR after that. We decided not to have her scoped although my vet told me Merial would loan her a scope Fwiw, I have no problem using the blue pop rocks, but my vet was able to get me syringes of omeprazole from a compounding pharmacy for the same cost. She's a smart vet and has used that pharmacy a lot, so I'm pretty comfortable with it.

[reay6790]

here is a good article:

http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm

worming is basically putting chemicals in the horses stomach...can you see why that would be a bad idea with open sores? or even a horse with a "senitive" or ulcer prone stomach

[deltawave]

Well, all drugs (and supplements, and treats, and anything else for that matter) are "chemicals". Not all chemicals are caustic, irritating, or damage mucosal tissue.

There is a whole lot of nonsense on that "lunatunes" page. (what an unfortunate name) The dewormer "theory" I would just chalk up to random, unsubstantiated fishing for ideas.