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  1. #1
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    May. 6, 1999
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    Default Jumping in and out of water w/ banks question.

    When a horse jumps over an obstacle into water, then has to take, say, three or four or five strides to jump up a bank (not over an obstacle) to get out of the water, what can/does a rider do to keep the horse from kinda straddling the bank (one foot on, one foot off, in a split-legged way)?

    Watching videos of this complex at various levels of eventing, I think (could be wrong, though) that it's rare (?) to see a horse "miss" in a similar way when the "out" is an obstacle, not just a plain bank. Is that an accurate observation -- and if so, why? Why do horses err and straddle even a low bank going out of water, but not, say, leave a leg behind over an obstacle going out? Is it related to how they get their eye on the jump or fail to? What can a rider do to help?

    Just curious!
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  2. #2
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    Nov. 16, 2000
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    Default

    My guess is that the riders fail to keep the horse going with sufficient impulsion to actually jump up out of the bank. And/or they have not really taught the horse how to answer the question - at the lowest levels anyway. As the horses/riders move up the levels where they are facing the more challenging 'outs' they don't make that mistake.

    If the bank is little, or for an experience pair, if it's just a bank and therefore seen as easier, the rider may underestimate it and not ride enough.

    These are all mistakes I've made myself, so just guesses on what you are seeing, but it's really easy to under-ride a bank out of water and the result would be a poor jump/straddle/scramble up.



  3. #3
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    Dec. 2, 2004
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    Default

    Kicking -- rider needs to kick. Rider needs to kick off of the bank into water also to keep the horse from launching.
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  4. #4
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    Jan. 5, 2006
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    I think that they don't always "see" the bank. I'm not sure what it looks like to them, but it's easy to get a stumble up the bank. That's why I always look intently at the bank when I'm jumping out of water, even though it is tempting to look beyond.



  5. #5
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    Dec. 2, 2004
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    ^^ very good point!

    And when schooling always walk across back and forth directly in front of the bank and that raises the horse's awareness of the bank, the size and to trust that there is footing there for jumping down and up.
    About the only time losing is more fun than winning is when you're fighting temptation.
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  6. #6
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    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    Default

    The canter must also be kept short and powerful. It's easy for the horse to get strung out, and then you get the awkward jump up. Keep a supporting leg, keep the rhythm and the step the same, and keep your eye on the bank.



  7. #7
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    Feb. 20, 2007
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    Default

    I think the answer is that horses don't initially understand that part of the "up" effort isn't visible to them (i.e., it's under water). So they make an effort appropriate to the effort they see is needed. This is something that they have to learn and repetition is the key. That's why it's important, as suggested, to ride around next to the up bank to give them a feel for the size of the effort required. And maybe some never figure it out.



  8. #8
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    Default

    Jumping well out of water or over an obstacle IN the water is a tough question, and requires A LOT OF CANTER. Not an off-their-feet flat canter, but a packaged, uphill, full-of-vigor canter. Very, very easy to let a horse be flat and strung out even if they feel like they're cantering through water with gusto.
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  9. #9
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    Sep. 14, 2002
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilary View Post
    My guess is that the riders fail to keep the horse going with sufficient impulsion to actually jump up out of the bank.
    I agree with this.

    Greenwood has the question in question.
    big log in
    three forward strides full sized bank up, one stride bank in, and then what ever fence they put in next.

    I was SCARED TO DEATH when I had to do this. It was on my very first Prelim.

    For several years I watched riders blunder there.
    It seemed as though they had to kick REALLY HARD to make that 3 strides and get out clean.

    So I kicked like a monkey doin you know what to a football and got through just fine.

    For this question if your horse sucks back on the way into the water you better be kickin and screamin on the landing to keep said horsie infront of your leg. Free half haults are not appreciated.

    I think with banks, because we have to get the horses right to the base, they are a bit tougher--where as with coups/rolltops/logs you can flub your way through on a long spot.
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  10. #10
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Default

    I had a question about walking back in forth in front of a bank so the horse would see it. I've never done that. I have walked up and down the very first banks we've done but I never stopped and made my horse look or circled it or anything.

    If you have to walk back in forth in front of it while schooling, what happens when you are approaching it for the first time at a show?

    We actually schooled dropping into water and jumping out of water the first time ever a couple weeks ago if anyone wanted to see what a green horse and rider look like, nothing fancy of course but a big accomplishment for us.



  11. #11
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    Apr. 11, 2001
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    Tennessee
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    Default

    I think it's more riders under estimating the effort.

    Your basic 3 foot up bank on regular ground--not water--is going to take 75 to 100 mpm off your speed. So if you are galloping at 350 mpm, jump to the top you are now at 250-275 mpm. You better be able to jump whatever is at the top of that bank at 250 mpm! Or at least have your horse balanced with enough power to jump at 250 mpm.

    Now add the drag of water to the equation.

    Now add a rider who is riding pretty casual about the whole thing.

    It's a wonder more horses don't land in a heap at the top of a banks coming out of water.



  12. #12
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Default

    Jumping an up-bank (with or without water) irequires the same thrust as a regular jump about 2 feet higher.

    If this isn't obvious to you, think about a horse jumping a 2 foot fence. The horse pretty much folds his legs out of the way, but doesn't have to push his BODY significantly higher. To jump a 2 foot up-bank, he has to raise his body 2 feet in the air. If he doesn't, he is going to land on his knees.

    Add the drag of the water, and you need much more impulsion than most riders realize.
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  13. #13
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    I think it's more riders under estimating the effort.

    Your basic 3 foot up bank on regular ground--not water--is going to take 75 to 100 mpm off your speed. So if you are galloping at 350 mpm, jump to the top you are now at 250-275 mpm. You better be able to jump whatever is at the top of that bank at 250 mpm! Or at least have your horse balanced with enough power to jump at 250 mpm.

    Now add the drag of water to the equation.

    Now add a rider who is riding pretty casual about the whole thing.

    It's a wonder more horses don't land in a heap at the top of a banks coming out of water.
    I agree...and then you add people sending their horses for a long one (with a strung out canter) and chances of a MISS are much higher.

    Occassionally I see a horse miss read the bank...but more often, it is a rider not getting the canter they need for the question and asking the horse to stand off...making the kind of mistake that the OP describes more likely.
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  14. #14
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    Jul. 24, 2005
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    Default

    Agree with the underpowered theory...

    I will also add that more times with banks than "real" fences I've had glare/shadows/reflections play more of an issue jumping out of water...add a horse backing off trying to read the question to the effect of the drag of the water against the necessary impulsion necessary...let's just say the rider better be kicking!



  15. #15
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    Thumbs up good question

    Interesting question, Ithinkk it relates to how they see he bank; that it is a solid surface to be jumped Onto rather than a funny looking obstacle to be jumped OVER; if you watch horses jumping onto a bank for the first time, they are often seemingly amazed that there is ground and will put their noses down to smell it all the way across to the other side the "off" with the water their tactile sensation is different as well. keep the leg on and the horse straight! it pays to find a good water to school!
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