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  1. #1
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    Default Debt ceiling, same sex couples

    "Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker to Prevent Same-Sex Couples Hospital Visitation Rights". I guess Michelle Bachman would get behind that since her husband believes the best way to help gays is to help them change their sexuality to what he considers normal.

    What's next? Geesh. Have we not come further than this as a nation where this type of discrimination is even given consideration?

    I'm sorry, but the Republicans are out of control.

    This last debt ceiling debacle proves it. I think ultimately it is a good thing that the Tea Party is forcing close examination of our fiscal position as painful as it may be it absolutely needs to happen. No matter what your political stance, it needs to happen.

    But to refuse to negotiate a large package of 8 trillion or whatever it was that Obama put on the table - enough of a package that he would have pretty much alienated most of his supporters - and have the Republicans refuse to negotiate it because it might make Obama look like he achieved something and also because of their stubborn refusal to eliminate even the most ridiculous of tax breaks is just unconscionable.

    This was the package that needed to pass. A package that cut from everyone and everything and also increased revenues. But no, conservatives would have none of it. Stinkers.



  2. #2
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    Default

    I wonder sometimes how much the Republicans like Michelle ("My husband told me to get a law degree and run for Congress and because I'm a good submissive Christian wife I did") Bachman really believe the crap they spout and how much of it is playing to the audience. You think Rick Perry's recent very public prayer event was ENTIRELY out of his sincere and deep faith in God? Come on, the guy's in Texas - he knew that schtick would have the citizenry drooling and swooning in religious fervor over what a good disciple of Jeeeezus their governor is.

    I'd have a much better feeling about the GOP if they'd tell Focus On The Family and the other narrow-minded evangelical groups to go stick their heads up their butts and jump.



  3. #3
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    Default

    I read an interesting article which followed several studies that found the younger the population, the less belief in organized religion and God. What they found is that the strict interpretation of many relgions regarding homosexuals was turning off the younger generation. So, maybe it's just a matter of time, and they will go the way of the dodo bird (not religion, the pandering of politicians to fundamentalists.)
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  4. #4
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    Default

    Totally agree with you sketcher. I have a friend/former co-worker who is very ill (2nd relapse of leukemia) with a very, very uncertain prognosis. He also happens to be gay, and has a long term boyfriend. What kind of cruel person would deny them the right the right to see each other while he's going through his treatments?

    With all the problems the country is facing, it absolutely boogles my mind that politicians waste their time worrying about who is visiting who in the hospital. Who the hell cares?

    BES
    Proudly owned by 2 chestnut mares
    Crayola Posse: sea green
    Mighty Rehabbers Clique



  5. #5
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    Default

    Well, I think the whole lot in the fiscal stand off should have been served a supoena to find out hot treasenous their actions are....

    Having hospital visitation rights revoked? Good grief...a dog gets more consideration!

    With new York allowing now same sex weddings, they figured they could expect an economic shot in the arm in the billions! I ma sure there will be numbers out shortly, after the first rush to the altar has passed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  6. #6
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    Default

    The GOP is squandering a huge opportunity to increase their ranks by not being more socially liberal and more responsible about the budgetary stuff.

    Liberals like me who are scared enough about the fiscal condition of our country might be more inclined to vote for someone who is fiscally conservative but REASONABLE and not just out to do anything they can to try and make the president look bad.

    I do not understand their marketing machine. They have such opportunity and allow themselves continually be hijacked by morons and complete sleazebags like Boehner. Boehner who said right up front that his goal was to see the president fail. How is that even remotely acceptable?



  7. #7
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    Default

    It is not.

    I have no idea how to drive the message home that this is not their private sand box, but a little bigger than their egos. How ever hard it is to eclipse that.

    Like I said, I consider it treason.
    Sadly it is nothing new.
    The GOP did pull every stunt on Clinton...

    A sad disconnect of those in office and those who have to foot the bill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueEyedSorrel View Post
    Totally agree with you sketcher. I have a friend/former co-worker who is very ill (2nd relapse of leukemia) with a very, very uncertain prognosis. He also happens to be gay, and has a long term boyfriend. What kind of cruel person would deny them the right the right to see each other while he's going through his treatments?

    With all the problems the country is facing, it absolutely boogles my mind that politicians waste their time worrying about who is visiting who in the hospital. Who the hell cares?

    BES
    EXACTLY.


    Priorities; the government has them out of order.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Beg pardon, but most Republicans do not believe in that crap about homosexuals, and do not vote for wackos like Bachman - there are extreme people in both the Republican and Democrat parties (look at some of the extreme lefties/socialists/communists!). They are dead wrong and any normal, compassionate person would be disgusted by these tactics. Don't we have enough other things to work on than to intrude into people's private lives? Seriously...

    As for the debt ceiling and Obama's postion, maybe if he did not INCREASE government by 30% we would not have quite so much debt that we'd need to raise the ceiling?! I do agree that both sides were palying politics - the Dems with the stuff they are not willing to cut, and the Reps with the timing and wanting to make Obama look ineffective (he needs little assistance with that IMO), but it was going to be bad no matter what they did.

    Just like the jobs programs that spent over 800 BILLION $ to try and get us 3,000 jobs and failed at that - there are 250 billion Americans - we could have stimulated the economy pretty well if we had that money! Simplistic, but better than giving it to the banks and Gov't programs that don't work or are thinly disguised cronyisms...

    I got this in an email - some of you have probably seen it and it's a better plan than mine.....From a senior citizen around 80 yrs. of age.
    The Fix
    There recently was an article in the St. Petersburg, FL. Times. The Business Section asked readers for ideas on: "How Would You Fix the
    Economy?"

    Dear Mr. President,

    Please find below my suggestion for fixing America's economy.
    Instead of giving billions of dollars to companies that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan.

    You can call it the "Patriotic Retirement Plan":

    There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

    1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.

    2) They MUST buy a new AMERICAN Car. Forty million cars ordered - Auto
    Industry fixed.

    3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage -
    Housing Crisis fixed.

    It can't get any easier than that!!

    P.S. If more money is needed, have all members in Congress pay their taxes..

    Mr. President, while you're at it, make Congress retire on Social Security and Medicare instead of full or almost full salaries and benefits like they do now. I'll bet both programs would be fixed pronto!


    Anyway, I don't think we need to fear that Michelle Bachman will become President - she is too wacky.



  10. #10
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    Default

    I can't believe politicians spend so much time on things that are A) trivial and B) NONE of their business! Seriously, any of the ones who think that being gay will turn straight people gay or have any other negative effect on straight people is so ignorant they shouldn't be allowed to hold a public office in this country or any other.

    As far as the budget, it's also ignorant to blame just President Obama (and whether or not you agree with him, that is his correct title) for the fiscal woes, because they began LONG before he was in office, and were so bad by the time he took office, it's foolish to think they could have been fixed in two years. The budget was balanced under President Clinton. There was even a surplus. By the time President Obama took office, that was long gone and a huge amount of that is on the shoulders of his predecessors who drummed up all kinds of reasons, most of them false, to start a war with a country whose government was not a direct threat to the United States. Years later, we're spending billions to make sure that country has a type of government they don't particularly want and to help them rebuild (not saying that's wrong after we destroyed their country). The money spent on a war that should never have been fought is astronomical, and we are paying for it dearly.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by witherbee View Post
    Beg pardon, but most Republicans do not believe in that crap about homosexuals, and do not vote for wackos like Bachman - there are extreme people in both the Republican and Democrat parties (look at some of the extreme lefties/socialists/communists!).
    I do not believe that most Rebublicans do believe this. That is why I am continually astounded that they get voted in.

    Quote Originally Posted by witherbee View Post
    As for the debt ceiling and Obama's postion, maybe if he did not INCREASE government by 30% we would not have quite so much debt that we'd need to raise the ceiling?!
    Yep. There's a lot of talking points people throw out there to show how poorly Obama has done. I certainly do not agree with everything he has done but he is not the one who created TARP and chose to bail out all the wealthy dirtbags that helped create this mess, all in the name of saving our economy. I agree with the letter written below, all that money would have been better given to the people trying to hang onto their homes or cars or to help support them through the very tough financial times that would have come had these corporations been allowed to fail as perhaps they should have.


    Quote Originally Posted by witherbee View Post
    Just like the jobs programs that spent over 800 BILLION $ to try and get us 3,000 jobs and failed at that - there are 250 billion Americans - we could have stimulated the economy pretty well if we had that money! Simplistic, but better than giving it to the banks and Gov't programs that don't work or are thinly disguised cronyisms...
    Again, I agree with giving it to individuals rather than banks et al but it is pretty commonly agreed that the spending did avert an all out depression. I'm just not convinced that allowing the chips to fall where they may would not have been better for this country in the long run. But no one is allowed to plan for the long run, only the next election cycle.

    But as far as giving government money to individuals, I am really starting to have a problem with all the people collecting unemployment for 2 years at this point. There are people who have only worked in construction who should be out training for other lines of work because their jobs are not coming back anytime soon. They are home collecting unemployment benefits and some are working for cash under the table. I personally know of about 8 young men home playing on their video games, doing nothing to move on, wives fit to be tied. These guys figure they are entitled to it until their roofing or carpentry jobs come back. I'm sick of paying for those types of people to sit around. Yes, it sucks and it's difficult but get up off your arse and do something about it.

    And with things the way they are in this country, I do fear that a Michelle Bachman or Sarah Pahlin are electable. You can never tell which sequence of events will push the fickle electorate the weeks before an election. We have too many stupid and ignorant people who are unable to think for themselves.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    I wonder sometimes how much the Republicans like Michelle ("My husband told me to get a law degree and run for Congress and because I'm a good submissive Christian wife I did") Bachman really believe the crap they spout and how much of it is playing to the audience.
    Heh, I just heard about the Bachman "submissive wife" thing yesterday on the radio, as well as about her follow-up where she explained that it meant there was mutual respect in the marriage.

    So if for Bachman submissive=mutually respectful, I wonder if she'd categorize her spouse as a "good submissive husband". I'm sad no one asked her that question



  13. #13
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    Default

    Sketcher, you are absolutely right. But, one, where are the retraining programs (clue...non-existent, we're cutting education all over) and two, for every job opening, there are 5 applications. Those receiving unemployment are the tip of the iceburg...there are others who have just plain given up.

    If we want to compete in a world economy, we must educate our people, not continue to just give them a handout only large enough for them to barely get by.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  14. #14
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    Default

    Sketcher, you need to get out more. The GOP is a pretty diverse set of people, just like the dems. Perhaps if you and others like you in both parties didn't paint all with a broad brush, vilify, and belittle, we'd be able to work through our problems instead of in the situation we find ourselves now.

    if you believe that republicans are solely the issue at this point, you're part of the problem, not the solution.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Sketcher, you need to get out more. The GOP is a pretty diverse set of people, just like the dems. Perhaps if you and others like you in both parties didn't paint all with a broad brush, vilify, and belittle, we'd be able to work through our problems instead of in the situation we find ourselves now.

    if you believe that republicans are solely the issue at this point, you're part of the problem, not the solution.
    Ok, then the GOP is putting the dog and pony show on the front lawn.
    And for what purpose?
    The diverse and sane people let that happen. Makes them just as guilty!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  16. #16
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    Default

    Alagirl.. That's just stupid. If you take the time to listen, you'll hear many in the party speak to different viewpoints and condemn many of the viewpoints you find troubling. You proved my point very effectively - its easy to vilify and condemn when you live with blinders on and blindly play follow the leader, swallowing without question the caricature your party paints of the other. (happens in both parties) Get out more, listen more, and look beyond your talking points. You'll find good hearted, intelligent people in all political parties.

    And by the way, I'm not a republican.



  17. #17
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Sketcher, you need to get out more. The GOP is a pretty diverse set of people, just like the dems. Perhaps if you and others like you in both parties didn't paint all with a broad brush, vilify, and belittle, we'd be able to work through our problems instead of in the situation we find ourselves now.

    if you believe that republicans are solely the issue at this point, you're part of the problem, not the solution.
    Perhaps you should read for comprehension. I am not painting with a broad brush, villifying and belittling. Those are terms I guess to be used by people who don't want to discuss issues but instead want to try and discredit the person who is willing to share an opinion.

    I am not saying republicans are solely the issue. I am saying that as someone who identifies pretty strongly as a liberal, that the Republican party is passing up a huge opportunity to get people like me on their side by behaving in a responsible and fiscally sound manner, not like a bunch of spoiled rich brats who must have everything their way. If they had been willing to work with our President on a large bill that would have made a good start at decent cuts across the board then our politicians would have restored a good deal of trust and good will with the voting public. Everyone would have been unhappy with the cuts, but that would mean everyone, not just certain segments of our society. But there was no way the party was going to do anything that might make it look like our president had a hand in something that might make him look like ha had a large accomplishment.

    You'd be hard pressed to argue after the debt ceiling battle that the republicans did not, as a whole, handle themselves in a way that was helpful to this country. Sorry, JMHO.

    And it's too bad because there are people like me who would put aside a good portion my personal beliefs on social issues right now to vote for people who would get us out of this stinking mess are are in right now by agreeing to large budget cuts to social programs, defense, foreign aid ect along with elimination of some of the loopholes and elimination of the Bush tax cuts (as well as the ending of his stinking wars). The whole package. Cuts and some increases.

    There is no reason why increases can't be set to expire when certain fiscal milestones are reached. For instance, maybe all those cuts from Bush should be removed and the increased revenue used to pay back social security, which would be solvent if the government had not plundered it. When social security is paid back then the tax cuts could be reenacted again.



  18. #18
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    The republican party has taken a sharp right turn and the republicans are pandering to the christian right and tea party. Moderate republicans have gone home and locked the door.

    I hope that we can get back to having a GOP that offers more than "pray away the gay", no taxes ever, abolish planned parenthood and other extreme positions.



  19. #19
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    Sketched, i believe you said, "I'm sorry, but the republicans are out of control"

    Pretty broad brush.

    My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you for asking.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Sketched, i believe you said, "I'm sorry, but the republicans are out of control"

    Pretty broad brush
    They are. As evidenced by the recent debt ceiling debacle.You did not see the more reasonable, moderate repubs refusing to tow the line with the hardliners.



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