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  1. #1
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    Aug. 17, 2010
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    Default UPDATE: STILL DEAD LAME... help?

    In the BeginningFirst of all, I have a HUS and relating this post to a current thread about QH feet, his feet are thin walled, and don't grow much, no matter what supplement and hoof oil he is on/we apply. yaaaay....

    Anyone have experience with this? It did not make my horse totally LAME, but it made him short strided, which NOT good in the HUS world. I so far have had the nails all pulled, packed the foot (vetwrap/ SorenoMore sugardine), washed the foot, flushed the nail hole with turpentine yesterday and applied poultice around the foot. He is much more sound today- but I of course have not ridden him. The nail hole was actually almost closed up today.

    Anything else I should do to make sure he is okay??

    PPS- farrier felt awful, and came right out to pull all the nails and fix it.
    -------------------------
    UPDATE # 1:So, horse was moving off really well last night after the offending nail was removed, I go out tonight, and he is DEAD LAME. I am devastated. First for my horse, who I feel AWFUL for (those pain eyes make me cry every time..), and second, our FAVORITE show is this coming weekend. Its the one show that I have been looking forward to all summer.

    This is what we did (I don't have any experience dealing with hot nails, so I went via the advice of trainer and farrier)The shoe has been removed, the nails all pulled, and we put styrofoam under the foot after applying thrushbuster and duct taped the styrofoam to the foot. Then I applied poultice to the entire leg from the knee down.

    Any advice to make him even better? this weekend's show is out of the question, but i need to make him feel better. He looks so uncomfortable
    -----------------------------------------

    UPDATE #2

    Okay. Horse is still very lame. Another thing I should add about him, that I didn't think came into play until now, is that he has a slight club foot. The nail hole where I thought all the issue was coming from, was almost sealed up this morning and incredibly clean. When testing his foot with a hoof pick this morning, the pain is on the right side of the frog (when holding his foot up) back toward the heal. He no longer has a shoe on, he had an animalintex pad for 12 hours, a sugardine wrap after that, and now he has icthamol wrap on. He had a Pen G shot. From the look of it, it just doesn't SCREAM abscess. There is very slight heat in the foot, and no pulse.
    His angles all seem to be their normal angles... but I'm worried that there is something really wrong with his club foot due to some sort of trimming error maybe?

    Either way.. I'm totally lost.
    Last edited by hoofs2118; Aug. 10, 2011 at 08:50 AM. Reason: update



  2. #2
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    Magic Cushion and time. Watch for a fever (but it doesn't sound that bad).
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/



  3. #3
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    Sounds like you had a hot nail, not that your farrier quicked him.

    But you are treating him for both, so you are covered.

    Just so you know the difference:

    When a horse is "quicked" it is the same thing as trimming your dog's nails so short that you cut into the blood supply to the nail. A farrier can tell when he has done this because he sees "indicator fluid". When I asked my farrier what indicator fluid was, he said that it was blood and it indicated the he had just cut the feet too short.

    The solution is what you are doing: pack the feet and keep him comfortable until nature runs its course and the foot grows out enough.

    A hot nail OTOH, is usally a nail which is driven too high and goes through the laminae instead of straight through the hoof wall.

    The fix is to pull the nail as soon as possible. If pulled almost immediately, then, no harm, no foul. If it stays in for several days, then you have to take great care that an infection doesn't start. Which is also what you are doing.

    So I am not sure exactly what has happened to your horse, but both things can and do happen. It is usually a matter of 2 - 4 days before he is back to being OK.

    Quicking a horse can be the sign of a poor farrier, but if you have a history with him and it has never happened before then I would not worry.

    A hot nail is the same kind of thing -- Everyone can occasionally drive in a nail at the wrong angle. If it only happens once in a blue moon, then that is just something that has happened. I would not automatically change farriers because of either one though.
    "Dyslexics Untie!"



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Sounds like you had a hot nail, not that your farrier quicked him.

    But you are treating him for both, so you are covered.

    Just so you know the difference:

    When a horse is "quicked" it is the same thing as trimming your dog's nails so short that you cut into the blood supply to the nail. A farrier can tell when he has done this because he sees "indicator fluid". When I asked my farrier what indicator fluid was, he said that it was blood and it indicated the he had just cut the feet too short.

    The solution is what you are doing: pack the feet and keep him comfortable until nature runs its course and the foot grows out enough.

    A hot nail OTOH, is usally a nail which is driven too high and goes through the laminae instead of straight through the hoof wall.

    The fix is to pull the nail as soon as possible. If pulled almost immediately, then, no harm, no foul. If it stays in for several days, then you have to take great care that an infection doesn't start. Which is also what you are doing.

    So I am not sure exactly what has happened to your horse, but both things can and do happen. It is usually a matter of 2 - 4 days before he is back to being OK.

    Quicking a horse can be the sign of a poor farrier, but if you have a history with him and it has never happened before then I would not worry.

    A hot nail is the same kind of thing -- Everyone can occasionally drive in a nail at the wrong angle. If it only happens once in a blue moon, then that is just something that has happened. I would not automatically change farriers because of either one though.
    Thank you for the great information! I think he was for sure hot nailed.. We caught it the following day, and I think he is almost back to normal.



  5. #5
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    Sep. 29, 2003
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    If it was a hot nail, which happens (horse twitches, etc), you shouldn't need to remove all the nails/shoe as it sounds like you did from the OP. Generally the farrier can tell right away, but with say a "close" nail where it isn't immediately obvious, putting hoof testers on each nail will tell you which one needs to come out. You can just have the problematic nail removed, no need to take off everything.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleTwistedWire View Post
    If it was a hot nail, which happens (horse twitches, etc), you shouldn't need to remove all the nails/shoe as it sounds like you did from the OP. Generally the farrier can tell right away, but with say a "close" nail where it isn't immediately obvious, putting hoof testers on each nail will tell you which one needs to come out. You can just have the problematic nail removed, no need to take off everything.
    We didn't take everything off- just removed the one bad nail. It not immediately obvious at all- which is what was so problematic. My horse has a rather large extended trot, and how I figured out something was wrong, was he unable to get fully extended, no head bobbing just didn't feel right.. When we got home, the nail was removed, but the shoe is still on his foot.

    Last night he looked very sound, but I will go out again tonight to make sure he is still doing okay.



  7. #7
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    I feel so bad for him- any ideas, advice would be helpful!



  8. #8
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    Just a note ... on any hot nails I've seen, Journeyman farriers use iodine or betadine, not turpentine or Thrushbuster. It gets into the hole faster because it is a *thinner* liquid with a much better saturation quality, and it sterilizes better.



  9. #9
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    Did you call your farrier already? If not, that's the first step. There is a good chance he has an abscess, so treating it like one (as in, soaking and poulticing to help draw it out) is not a bad idea.

    If it is an abscess he will likely be dead lame for a little bit, but once is drains he'll feel pretty immediate relief. Abscesses are also usually a one-time occurrence and, while they hurt the horse like crazy for a bit, don't lead to lasting problems. However, there is the potential for things to go wrong and cause significant damage so your farrier and/or vet should be involved from the start.

    I hope this makes sense, I'm running on about 2 hours of sleep and feel a little incoherent right now.

    edit: see, how incoherent I am I missed the actual update except in the thread title. Other than what you're doing, I just would say that unfortunately abscesses usually just have to run their course. As Freebird! says, Bute and other painkillers can actually prolong the issue.



  10. #10
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    Sounds like an abcess brewing if the nail has been removed. I would soak with Betadine and Epsom Salts and pack with AnimaLintex or whatever your favorite goop is, and wrap. If he is 3 legged lame, keep him stalled but don't Bute, as this can slow the abscess down.

    When you say Turpintine, do you mean Vinice Turpentine - because that's pretty sticky stuff, and as BP said, would be hard to get all teh way in a nail hole.



  11. #11
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    Thanks for the speedy replies. The turpentine was not vinice turpentine.. Also, I think it is an abscess brewing as well. Is the duct taping and styrofoam a bad idea? It did make him seem more comfy.



  12. #12
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    That's just fine, but I would apply something directly on the sole, where the hot nail was. If you can, get a syringe and squirt Chlorhexidine directly in the nail hole, on both ends, before wrapping. Then apply your favorite abcess goop, and wrap. I normally do wet AnimaLintex, then Saran wrap. If horse us really sore, I pad with a diaper - though styraphone is fine too - then wrap with VetWrap and finally Duct Tape.



  13. #13
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    If it is an abscess then have the shoe pulled and use the magna paste, the green epsom salt poultice. It works amazing, if it already blew and you use that for a few days and get the shoe back on he may be okay for the show. Last time my mare got an abscess she was fine in about 3 days using the paste. Plus, it is much easier than soaking!
    Proudly Owned By Sierra, 2003 APHA/ PtHA Mare



  14. #14
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    Epsom. I forgot about soaking in Epsom salt.



  15. #15
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    THank you for all the wonderful replies- the abcess unfortunately has NOT blown out yet. I just know it is in there though- going from sound to THIS LAME, it HAS to be an abcess. I will look for this magna paste too!



  16. #16
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    i got mine from valley vet, smartpak carries it too, your local feed or tack store may have it. its just a green epsom salt paste, you slather it on, cover it and wrap the hoof. pulls the abscess out pretty quickly, and easier to use than soaking!
    Proudly Owned By Sierra, 2003 APHA/ PtHA Mare



  17. #17
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    I think Tractor Supply has it too



  18. #18
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    my horse had a hot nail once farrier used some laser thing to figure out which nail it was, pulled it out, I squirted some Keratex Nail Hole Disinfectant- horse was fine. Never lame.

    Our farrier mentioned putting cider vinegar in water when soaking foot for abscess -



  19. #19
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    I have had good luck for abcess with soaking in epsom salt and then applying icthammol on a gauze on the sole than applied a duct tape boot to keep in place.



  20. #20
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    I went out this mornign- still very lame. He is being soaked in Epsom at noon and getting a Penacillin shot. He has not had any Bute. I can't get magna paste unless it is through the mail, so for right now, I made some epsom salt paste with bentamine and epsom salt, I have sugardine on the ready, and Icthammol. He is in a very large long dry stall so he can walk around, but not get wet (think 3 stalls wide - these past few days have been very rainy- and it is very muddy and wet outside in turnout.)

    What do you think?

    Its been very hard for me to keep my cool about this lately. Going from being so excited a week ago, and training and being ready, to dead lame because the farrier placed a bad nail. All the training, all teh work, all the lessons- for this comign show. Its hard for me to even allow this farrier to touch him when he has never taken a lame step. He has been really wonderful in trying to help, adn has appologized up and down, but i'm still very pissed.

    I'm sure I'll get over it-but it's hard to see my beautiful boy in pain right now.



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