[RoyalTRider]

One thing that irritates me is trainers who travel to barns and, when the student before is late, they still give him his full time and THEN show up late to teach you! That is extremely rude, IMHO.

[Trakehner]

The barn showed they were not PROFESSIONAL.

The instructor showed she was not PROFESSIONAL.

The father was upset his daughter was not getting the instruction she had been looking forward to getting...he was a father mad at the situation and his daughter suffered for his tantrum.

The father didn't interrupt the lesson of another kid...good for him, that would have been very rude and disruptive to her lesson. People have knocked him for this, why?

It's not his job to find out what's going on, it's the instructors or the barn's job to let him know. Not later in a call, but right then and there.

"But horses arent' run by a clock"...such a childish excuse. Lessons need some time between each one, these are private lessons it sounds like, the kids deserve more than you yelling at them in the ring, they need a decompression and talk once they get off the horse. This is just money-grubbing by pushing kids through like an assembly line. You wouldn't like it at the doctors, you shouldn't do it at the barn.

And yes I have instructed, here and in Europe...we always blocked time in for "chatting" as part of our horsemanship teaching.

Once again, very unprofessional.

[Tom King]

He should have his daughter take up violin. Top violin instructors have been known to run a couple of hours over and never with any explanation. It's just part of the deal. I wouldn't worry about it. When you're doing all you can do and someone doesn't get along with the program they can get along down the road.

[Alagirl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trakehner:
The barn showed they were not PROFESSIONAL.

The instructor showed she was not PROFESSIONAL.

The father was upset his daughter was not getting the instruction she had been looking forward to getting...he was a father mad at the situation and his daughter suffered for his tantrum.

The father didn't interrupt the lesson of another kid...good for him, that would have been very rude and disruptive to her lesson. People have knocked him for this, why?

It's not his job to find out what's going on, it's the instructors or the barn's job to let him know. Not later in a call, but right then and there.

"But horses arent' run by a clock"...such a childish excuse. Lessons need some time between each one, these are private lessons it sounds like, the kids deserve more than you yelling at them in the ring, they need a decompression and talk once they get off the horse. This is just money-grubbing by pushing kids through like an assembly line. You wouldn't like it at the doctors, you shouldn't do it at the barn.

And yes I have instructed, here and in Europe...we always blocked time in for "chatting" as part of our horsemanship teaching.

Once again, very unprofessional. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dang, you really love to play *Devil's Advocate*, don't you!

As I understand, regular lesson does include tacking and cooling down - just with the working student - what is wrong with that?

Just some days suck more than others and go totaly haywire, and that is even in the real world the case, not just with horses. Heck when you have to deal with people - and even computers (anybody care to remamber the Thanksgiving Travel nightmare, because a coputer went nuts? Delta air is still chewing on that one!)

There is no need to be rude, especialy not once somebody calls to apologize - gracious people with manners accept gracefully.

I am sure OP could have handled it a bit better at the barn - but I also suspect that it never crossed her mind that Daddy Dearest didn't know about the schedule, tacking and such...

And frankly, I don't think that it is all the Barns responsibility to confirm classes and lessons - ten minutes is acceptaple to be late in most circles (15 is an Old World standart which is still considered *on time*) and being too early is just about as rude as being late!

Sh*t happens, everywhere any time...and being ten minutes late is not the end of the world - if you don't have that much time in your schedule, make it! Or you're headed for a massive coronary!

[Cindeye]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trakehner:
The barn showed they were not PROFESSIONAL.

The instructor showed she was not PROFESSIONAL.

The father was upset his daughter was not getting the instruction she had been looking forward to getting...he was a father mad at the situation and his daughter suffered for his tantrum.

The father didn't interrupt the lesson of another kid...good for him, that would have been very rude and disruptive to her lesson. People have knocked him for this, why?

It's not his job to find out what's going on, it's the instructors or the barn's job to let him know. Not later in a call, but right then and there.

"But horses arent' run by a clock"...such a childish excuse. Lessons need some time between each one, these are private lessons it sounds like, the kids deserve more than you yelling at them in the ring, they need a decompression and talk once they get off the horse. This is just money-grubbing by pushing kids through like an assembly line. You wouldn't like it at the doctors, you shouldn't do it at the barn.

And yes I have instructed, here and in Europe...we always blocked time in for "chatting" as part of our horsemanship teaching.

Once again, very unprofessional. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif
Wow...you've leapt to a lot of conclusions here that are not necessarily true. You must be a PROFESSIONAL clairvoyant or a PROFESSIONAL judge...you are certainly adept at assuming you know exactly what is going on in other's minds and being judge and jury on the outcome!

The barn is quite PROFESSIONAL. We have written policies that are handed to every client when they sign their hold harmless agreements. In addition, the policies are posted outside and inside the office in bold 18 point type. These policies very clearly state that students are to arrive 30 minutes before their lesson time and are expected to stay up to 30 minutes after their lesson is concluded to cool out their horse and put away tack.

I pride myself on my professionalism. My definition of PROFESSIONALISM includes:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Co-teaching with all new instructors to ensure they adhere to the same riding principals that I do, and that they, too, run their lessons on time and with courtesy to their clients
<LI>Calls to each client to confirm their weekly lesson times or make adjustments based on THEIR schedule requirements
<LI>Calls to each instructor the night before they teach to confirm their lesson schedule for the next day
<LI>Calls to each working student the night before they work to confirm their schedule for the next day
<LI>At least monthly meetings with clients and parents to discuss progress and set goals (both on and off the horse)
<LI>Calls at the end of each lesson day to address any open issues that occurred during the day
<LI>Same day call back on any messages and requests for schedule change
<LI>Monthly newsletters that discuss new developments at the barn, new programs, available discounts and student awards
<LI>Keeping to a set schedule within 15 minutes of scheduled lessons times[/list]

You have no idea why the father was upset. Neither do I. Only the father does.

It IS every parent's job to find out what their child's schedule is, how they should be prepared for each activity and to schedule their arrival, departure and travel times accordingly.

I have never used the excuse that "horses aren't run by a clock" and never will. I do not need time between lessons. My focus in on the person who is paying for that time slot, not out "chatting" to make them feel good. That is the definition of a PROFESSIONAL...you are paid for the time you spend sharing your expertise with a client.

I do not yell at any of my clients. There is never a reason to raise one's voice to a client...especially when they are being paid to be taught in a PROFESSIONAL manner. I do not run an assembly line with my students or my horses, perhaps that is why I have a waiting list of referred students who would rather wait to take lessons with me than start with one of the other trainers immediately. At the doctor's office, the doctor does not stand in the hallway discussing my personal life with me...he goes from my exam room immediately to the next exam room where his patient is waiting having been properly prepared by the nurse or physician's assistant. That is exactly how I run my PROFESSIONAL practice.

I consider the use of the terms "money-grubbing" and "assembly line" presumptive. I suppose the 99% of my clients who bring me holiday gifts, free coffee, write me cards telling me what a great job I'm doing and call me during the week to ask my clothing size so they can bring me a t-shirt that reminded them of me should be an accurate reflection of my "money-grubbing, assembly line, UNPROFESSIONAL" approach.

Just because I don't get paid to teach doesn't mean I don't hold myself to high professional practices and ethics. Oh, and for those of you who are waiting with the A/O and A/A attack, I never have any intention of showing as an amateur, unless Trakehner will testify as to my complete lack of PROFESSIONALISM.

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by entropygal:

maybe we can change one father at a time.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, most dads are men. Not a chance.

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom King:
He should have his daughter take up violin. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But there is no such thing as a push button violin.

[ESG]

Don't waste your typing time, Cindeye. Trak has proved himself on numerous occasions to be a misogynistic pot-stirrer whose chief delight is playing devil's advocate, seemingly unconcerned at how ignorant and prejudiced he makes himself appear in the process. We who actually share your profession and your pain know the truth, and commiserate and celebrate (the fact that Mr. PITA won't be coming back) with you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

[Trakehner]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ESG:
Don't waste your typing time, Cindeye. Trak has proved himself on numerous occasions to be a misogynistic pot-stirrer whose chief delight is playing devil's advocate.QUOTE]

Coming from your common misanthropic attitudes towards any male who makes a comment critical of any female...this is cute. Pot stirring is very different from disagreeing with the commonly held "correct" attitudes you sexistly blather. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make their arguements invalid.

Cindeye isn't a victim. She's mad because someone dared to be pissed at her because she screwed up. The parents didn't have to accept her apology, it was their choice. No excuse to be rude, but they were treated rudely at the barn.

Oh well, it seems to be tough being a delicate flower when someone says you were wrong or doesn't agree with you and they're a male who should never disagree.

[Nicker]

Going by past posts if your lesson is at 4:30 then you have to be there at 4:00. They were there at 4. The barn where my daughter rides requires you to be there 15 minutes prior to groom, tack etc. So when I show up at 4:45 for a 5 o'clock lesson I expect things to get started, not wait half an hour. If things are running late or the horse is already groomed and tacked then the instructor informs me of such. All while still in the middle of the ring giving another lesson. She doesn't ignore me while I wait on the rail. I do think the Dad was wrong to yell. I would have either walked into the ring to see what was happening or just quietly left.

[RugBug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
Don't waste your typing time, Cindeye. Trak has proved himself on numerous occasions to be a misogynistic pot-stirrer whose chief delight is playing devil's advocate, seemingly unconcerned at how ignorant and prejudiced he makes himself appear in the process. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe...that's the best summing up of this poster's internet character (notice I say internet...he is probably radically different in real life) I've seen yet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

Cindeye...you sound like you run things really well. Like I said before...it is inevitable that at sometime or another someone will run late. Never seems to be a problem when the client runs late (yeah, right http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif) but all he$$ breaks lose when it's the trainer. Thems the breaks.

[Cindeye]

The sun is shining. We'll be riding for the 2nd weekend in a row. Annie and I are going to try a horse tomorrow. I'm lettin' it all go now http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif

[MandyVA]

Flash44 said:

"quote:Originally posted by entropygal:

maybe we can change one father at a time.

No, most dads are men. Not a chance."

Ha ha ha! Hmmm...I thought Trakehner would jump on that one too.

[Sneekers]

Oooooooo.....Trak, you're tough...I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but WOW, that's quite a hard line! Nice to know that life runs so efficiently in your perfect world. I rather prefer my "less perfect" world, where spontaneity is a part of everyday life! It's more fun for me and for my students. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif

[Sandy M]

I think Cindeye handled it correctly: She was polite, she apologized for the delay (of only 10 mins!), THEY were rude. Her usual help was not available. Manure happens. My lessons are almost always late by a few minutes, because my instructor runs her own barn and only has stall-cleaning help. If a horse gets hurt, if a horse needs a blanket removed, if the farrier suddenly shows up and needs to know where a horse is to be shod, she has to handle it. My lesson is lengthened by whatever "time outs" she has to take. But I STILL get there at least and hour to 45 mins before my lesson because I need to groom, saddle and WARM UP my horse. I realize the situation is a bit different with lesson horses, but TEN MINUTES LATE! Geesh! What a tragedy!! That family needs to get a life. One can be the ultimate professional in the horse business and STILL have scheduling problems because the HORSES don't know the schedule. They will colic, injure themselves, and when expected help doesn't show, the ungrateful beasts will NOT saddle themselves! http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...s/winkgrin.gif

[katarine]

I am in the business of coordinating, scheduling, and delivering online learning to physicians. Despite our best efforts, from time to time, poop happens. A class starts late, or there are IT issues, whatever. You know what? In 5+ years with now 200+ clients, no one has pitched a big ugly hissy fit...yet.

The client in this case showed their ass over nothing, with callous disregard for their child. Cindeye is not the victim, the child is. **** the entitlement idea of 'I'm here I'm on TIME now SERVE ME.' Oh, and the 'no one has free time'. BULLHOCKEY. Look at all of us clicking away at WORK; I tell you what no one has anymore; PRIORITIES. Put that darn child ahead of yourself daddio, AHEAD of your overwrought, blackberryin, tailgating ass. And now.

OH- and as for 'docs overbooking'- lOL- sure, some do- but here's the flip side: the pts that come in at 8:30 for their 8:15 new patient appt, with a sack full of Rx meds they take, no clue what insurance they have, and no money to pay their copay. Then the 8:30 comes in, with her SO in tow, and doc can't you listen to his heart, too? He fainted last night. It's trickle down effect clogs every day, all the time.

Off the soap box and back to my feverishly hectic 21st century life. Right after I check my stocks http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

[Sneekers]

Oh, Sandy M, you mean your horses DON'T groom and saddle themselves? And, they have the nerve to get an "upset tummy" on your time? Tsk, tsk!!!!

The truth is, LIFE HAPPENS. If Cindeye's schedule gets a little "out of wack", so what? This was NOT done to personally and purposefully inconvenience this particular family. They shouldn't flatter themselves. So, Cindeye, don't give it another thought, if they come back, well, it's your choice to take them back or not. If you decide to teach the child, I would make it abundantly clear to the parents that "$h*t" happens, if they don't like it they're more than welcome to go elsewhere. But say it "oh, so sweetly" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

[Sandy M]

Sneekers - "groom themselves" - I always used to get a kick out of the rent string at a family camp we used to go to when I was a teenager. The horses were in a corral all day, with hay in front of them, or saddled and tied to the picket line. But at night.... they were turned out in ACRES of deep grass Sierra pasture. When they came in in the morning, they were the slickest, shiniest self-groomed horses you ever saw (from rolling in all that nice grass). The handlers picked out their feet and saddled 'em: rarely were they brushed.

[Soul Kitchen]

Cindyeye-

Please ignore Trak-oink oink. We have a lot of fun at his expense in very lengthy PT's, so at least he is good for something! He is just trying to stir the pot and upset you.

Come to think of it, are you sure it wasn't Trak who was the temperamental, nasty father? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif

[Erin]

Ahem. You're welcome to disagree, but do it respectfully, without namecalling. Snide remarks and poke-poke-wink-nods are not appropriate. Act like adults, please.