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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2011
    Location
    Payson, Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default 8 Months Later

    I address this comment to all those who have looked at and responded to the Video of my ride on Sundust that Mr. Buck posted. I am very willing to use my true name and yes, I was 81 when the Video was done last September. I am now 82 1/2, in excellent health and enjoying life and new challenges.
    I have been amazed that most of you use pseudo names and that the comments have been so base-minded. Not only do you have the audacity to rip apart Mr. Buck, but you are insulting my judgement and ability and that of my Horse Partner, to distinguish between a charlatan and an honest knowledgeable person.
    I ask you this question - Who among you can take a Western Pleasure Trained horse (head almost to the ground) or a young green horse and on the second lesson have that horse completely and constantly in proper frame and on the bit? I guarantee NONE of you can! You have been so busy criticizing Mr. Buck that you failed to acknowledge that Sundust came to us as a Western Trained Horse and that he had had only one, I reiterate, only one other session with Mr. Buck before the Video was shot. If you had really studied the Video,you would have been able to immediately see the difference in his head carriage and demeanor when we switched from the bitted bridle to the bitless bridle. Now after regular sessions, we have a totally different horse and we are totally different riders due to the way Mr. Buck educates the three of us. We understand how to use our bodies and the effect it has on Sundust. In the 30 years I have been riding, I have never been educated this way, not even by one who is considered a true top Classical Trainer. We will soon have a new Video to show the progress after 8 months.
    I challenge all of you to take a series of sessions with Mr. Buck to evaluate what he has to offer you, the rider, and your horse. If none of you are willing to do this, then I suggest you refrain from the negative, abusive, tirade you post. Simply put, in the vernacular street language, "KNOCK IT OFF".
    You are all missing out on the wondrous feeling of being one, being light and dancing with your mount without the usual pull, drive and push. You are also missing out on the soft response you receive back from your completely happy horse partner.

    With Love, Kindness, Joy and Beauty to All
    Gloria J. Perry



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2006
    Location
    Larkspur, Colo.
    Posts
    4,826

    Default

    I didn't see the thread about the video but is this the one?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQMGbRv92YM

    Your horse looks very uncomfortable there. Maybe it's the western pleasure training, but he looks very foot-sore. ETA: And very stiff.

    Will the new video be posted here?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2005
    Posts
    1,238

    Default

    Sorry, but that horse is sore, if in fact its the one in the video. That is not a happy horse. I am on the horses' side here. I would ethically not be riding that horse in this state.

    I have no other opinions on this matter.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2006
    Posts
    5,044

    Default

    I'm at a loss as well......I have no idea who Mr. Buck is or what thread you are talking about...

    But I don't know any classical trainer who would "have the horse on the bit on the second ride"...When I sent my horse to be saddle broke, the trainer spent 30 days doing long lining and groundwork before he ever stepped in the saddle.

    And yes, your horse looks lame to me in that video...and very hollowed through his/her back. I would definitely recommend having your vet look at your horse.

    Congrats on being active in your 80s...I can only hope I will be riding at that age.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    8,583

    Default

    Personally I think that any trainer remotely worth their salt could have any horse achieve that level of contact in one ride, WITHOUT needing the martingale.

    I am also inherently suspicious of people who found the large majority of their training philosophy on "We Are The Only Ones Doing It Right; Everyone Else Is Doing It Wrong." It is not as if anyone is reinventing the training wheel. While there are unfortunately a great number of trainers in every discipline who only achieve the barest of competence, there are also a great number of trainers in every discipline who can competently, skillfully, and tactfully train a horse. The second somebody starts saying they are the ONLY ONE doing something correctly (and this is usually coupled with a startling lack of demonstration of any horse doing any kind of upper level work) I start to wonder what exactly is so very special about a horse trotting a mincy circle in a running martingale that everyone in the world should upend their training programs to emulate.

    Imo the horse in the video is not sound for the work it is being asked to do.

    While I am glad that an 80+ year old is enjoying horse back riding, I would still like to see some more consideration displayed for the soundness of the equine partner in this instance.
    Last edited by meupatdoes; Jul. 28, 2011 at 05:16 PM.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    12,702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    I didn't see the thread about the video but is this the one?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQMGbRv92YM

    Your horse looks very uncomfortable there. Maybe it's the western pleasure training, but he looks very foot-sore. ETA: And very stiff.

    Will the new video be posted here?
    I see that that video was uploaded by dragonhart08. Could this be an alter for spirit horse?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2005
    Posts
    494

    Default

    Dear Gloria,

    First, kudos to you for choosing to enjoy your horse and I hope you have many more pleasurable years in the saddle. It's wonderful to see a rider enjoying the sport in their golden years.

    However, it disappoints me that you choose to do the same thing you accuse so many here of....you insult the ability of many professionals here and claim they could never do for your horse what Mr. Buck (aka spirit horse) did.

    ***Editing to make clear that no trainer with any modicum of talent or horsemanship would find the methods used in the video to be acceptable or useful or correct.***

    I promise you there are many trainers who could do it far better and more classically correct. Mr. Buck has earned his reputation here all by himself, and has yet to post any evidence that he can ride in anything resembling a balanced, classical seat either over fences or on the flat. The vast majority of his writings here prove his lack of knowledge, and rather than learn, he chooses to parrot things, but out of context and adding his spin.

    Personally, I need to see a level of credentials and ability from someone before I'd ride with them or let them handle my horses...and I don't mean competition results. From what I've read and seen, I'd be glad to give Mr. Buck some lessons (gratis) but I see nothing that makes me want to do what he is doing.

    Please don't misunderstand...I'm truly happy that you've found what you want in an instructor...but it is presumptuous of you to assume that he is someone who could be of any help to me or many others here.

    Best wishes-
    Sharon Potter
    (Retired trainer, used to post under my real name until I requested it be changed due to my warnings about a horse molester potentially exposing my name and horses to retaliation)
    Last edited by Unfforgettable; Jul. 29, 2011 at 02:13 PM.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2011
    Location
    the Armpit of the Nation
    Posts
    3,160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    I see that that video was uploaded by dragonhart08. Could this be an alter for spirit horse?
    It is.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2010
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Well, that horse is NOT consistently or completely "on the bit", his head is up, his back is dropped, and he is mincing.

    BUT .. You are 82 and riding@!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS. SEriously, that is awesome.

    If you are happy with Mr. Buck, that is great, but it doesn't look like my cup of tea.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2011
    Location
    Payson, Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Thank you all for your quick reply. Just to let you know, Sundust was not lame. He was check shortly before the Video by our vet, who is also certified to do acupuncture and chiropractic work on horses. He had a clean bill of health.

    With Joy and Beauty,
    Gloria J. Perry



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 26, 2004
    Posts
    2,284

    Default

    I did comment on your video, and I am so glad that you are happy and I want to be able to ride myself into the 80's. I took lessons with Violet Hopkins when she was still riding dressage and hosting the dressage instructors seminars in Michigan in her late 70's.

    I am glad you like your instructor, but I agree with the above that any trainer worth their salt could have a horse much more consistently on the bit, forward, starting to bend in just one or two rides. Moreover, many instructors could teach it from the ground with the owner on the horse. Ms. Hopkins certainly could.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2006
    Posts
    1,875

    Default

    Who among you can take a Western Pleasure Trained horse (head almost to the ground) or a young green horse and on the second lesson have that horse completely and constantly in proper frame and on the bit?
    is that a B bit or a baucher bit?? no magic there though...don't buy the snake oil!

    Anyway, congratulations on your riding!!! You are obviously a good sport!
    "When you think you don't need a coach ...then you're in trouble" Don Imus 2012



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2011
    Location
    the Armpit of the Nation
    Posts
    3,160

    Default

    Miz Perry, I simply wish to say that it is awesome to see you riding at 82. Happy trails to you!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    5,348

    Default

    Is Gloria for real, or just one of spirithorse's alters? I suppose I'll never know.

    Looking at the video, I see a very kind rider but a horse who says "ouch!" every time it puts its right hind down. Would also wonder about why it's reaching so far under with that leg; something clearly hurts!
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    I see that that video was uploaded by dragonhart08. Could this be an alter for spirit horse?
    Equine myotherapist.
    Inventor of 'Bitless Bridle' Spirit Bridle
    dragonhart08

    the same ??

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  16. #16

    Default

    A Bit About Me and my Horse(s)
    I started riding when I was 52. Now I am 82 and still at it. I have been longing to learn true Classical French Dressage. My horse partner, Cathy Torlina and I own a wonderful 9 year old Quarter Horse Gelding named Royal Sundust out of a Barb line extending back to 1724. We are blessed to have Allan Buck as our educator. We use his Spirit Bridle and Spirit Yolk. He is teaching us to use individual muscles to cue as well as exercises to increase our horses ability to use his muscles. What fun and joy. Everything is light, light, light and in tune with our Boy. Yes, Allan buck knows exacting how to teach Classical French Dressage.
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  17. #17

    Default

    On my own horse, Sundust and another horse Henry, I was told the hock were the problem. In both cases,upon checking the lumbar muscles, the horses dropped moving away. Deep message work corrected the problem & both moved freely afterward.

    Posted by Gloria J. Perry on 11/24/2010
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  18. #18

    Default

    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 27, 2010
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dalpal View Post
    I'm at a loss as well......I have no idea who Mr. Buck is or what thread you are talking about...

    But I don't know any classical trainer who would "have the horse on the bit on the second ride"...When I sent my horse to be saddle broke, the trainer spent 30 days doing long lining and groundwork before he ever stepped in the saddle.

    And yes, your horse looks lame to me in that video...and very hollowed through his/her back. I would definitely recommend having your vet look at your horse.

    Congrats on being active in your 80s...I can only hope I will be riding at that age.
    In watching western pleasure competitions, it appears that the lame look and movement is what everyone is wanting. No clue why that would be desirable.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2010
    Location
    Newtown, CT
    Posts
    583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manentail View Post
    In watching western pleasure competitions, it appears that the lame look and movement is what everyone is wanting. No clue why that would be desirable.
    I don't think this is a fair assertion...Do you know anything about western pleasure? Have you ever seen a nice, or world champion quality western pleasure horse? I'm sure there are plenty of negative assertions uneducated people could make after watching dressage too...The horse in the video doesn't look at all like a western pleasure horse, nor did I read anywhere that it is western pleasure trained, only 'western' trained. A horse can be lame in any discipline. Please try not to make sweeping accusations about an entire discipline, about which you don't ascribe to know a thing.



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