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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2009
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    245

    Default Am I responsible for this?

    I rent out two barns to two trainers. There are two outside enclosed wash stalls for them to use. I don't use them anymore, I wash my horses down at my private barn. In the leases, it does not specify wash stalls, just areas in their care, to be kept clean and in workable condition. The wash racks are now completely clogged up and overflowing into the driveway. The manure bucket placed outside is overflowing with manure and no one has dumped in weeks. They have been told to put manure in the wash stalls in bucket and once a day dump into the manure spreader which is parked close to the wash racks during the day.

    I suspect they have been sweeping manure down the drains, along with hair, etc. It is a mess. Who is responsible for paying to have this mess unclogged? I know they think I should do it.

    I have signs all over the wash stalls about cleaning up after each use. I think the bill for this mess should go to the two trainers. Am I unreasonable? TIA



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2006
    Posts
    1,713

    Default

    Nope. I think it is their responsibility. I would assume that to be an area in their care. Next time you will specify in the lease the areas under their care, won't you?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2004
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    Pay to have the wash stalls working again. Have a talk with both trainers and explain one more time how the wash stalls are cleaned. Then ask them to pay half the bill. If it happens again, they pay all of the bill.
    "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,997

    Default

    You are not unreasonable but unless this is specified in the lease, I suspect you will have a difficult time collecting ...
    (unless the drains etc were inspected prior to the lease, it will be unclear - they will be able to claim that they never worked properly etc)

    Of course as the wash stalls are not specified in the lease I would just shut them down - turn off water to the area & put up closure fencing (that means it & cannot just be moved).

    Arrange for the manure to be dumped before it gets worse & have the trainers take responsibility ie addendum to the contract as there seems to be confusion; also write up where horses may be hosed/not hosed in the future as a temporary area will need to be assigned.

    Then sit down & work out an agreement as to who is responsible for the cleanup of the washstalls - again you may need to do it this time & either accept that they will be better renters henceforth or just kick them out ...



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2009
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    245

    Default

    I really don't want to kick them out. Both are very good renters as far as paying on time, etc. and we all get along fine. One of the trainers has many clients and mostly children, but she is just too busy to police them. She needs a barn manager, but none of my business,I guess. We have sat down and discussed the wash rack uncleaniness, etc. but that didn't last long. I even have round rubber matting with small holes in it to cover the drains, but they have been moved aside. One of the drains has been pried up, hence my reasoning that manure was being shoved down the drain, instead of picking up. Uggghh!!! This drain pipe is large around and underground running about 200 feet long.

    Looks like new addendum on top of old addendum about cleaning up, will need to be put forth. Meanwhile the wash stalls are closed and I have set up temporary wash space around the back of the barn in the grassy area. Their boarders already complaining to me when they see me........ because you have to walk to turn the water on and no where to tie their horse. Oh, to be independently wealthy!!! I'm too old to run this whole place anymore.
    Thanks for listening!

    You know, the funny thing is....I have another farm I rent out. It is about 15 miles from here. They take care of all their problems on their own dime and never expect me to do anything, except for house repairs that aren't their fault. It's because I am out of sight, but because I live on this property, they all expect me to foot the bill for everything! Maybe, I'll just move! LOL!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Ocala, FL
    Posts
    1,923

    Default

    Tell their boarders to complain to the trainers, since it is a rented barn. Ask the boarders if they know how the stalls/drains got clogged. Send the responsibility where it belongs - trainers and their clients.

    L



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    13,116

    Default

    Have them cleaned and restored to working order. Pay the bill. Then close them off, and tell your tenants politely that, should they wish to use the amenities, they need to pay for the damage done by their clients.

    If clients bitch to you, politely explain that the amenities were being abused by thoughtless people, and that you could not afford multiple repair bills for them.

    And don't forget an addendum to the leases, specifying that the washrack maintenance/damage is the responsibility of the tenants, should they pony up for the repair.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2005
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    5,219

    Default

    Have the stall drains cleaned out and working right. Then talk to your trainers and come to an agreement about how they will be maintained. An addendum to the lease may be in order.

    Perhaps it couldn't hurt to hang a friendly reminder sign to remind the trainer's clients who "forget".

    It's too hard to figure out which hairball belongs to whose horses if it becomes clogged again. You may just have periodic drain cleaning figured into the cost of their leases.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,997

    Default

    Have them cleaned and restored to working order. Pay the bill. Then close them off, and tell your tenants politely that, should they wish to use the amenities, they need to pay for the damage done by their clients.
    Given what has preceded, I do not think there is any chance of boarders etc respecting the closed but "In Working Order" wash racks - it will be constant battle & not worth the hassle.

    As trainers have many clients & lack of proper supervision
    I even have round rubber matting with small holes in it to cover the drains, but they have been moved aside. One of the drains has been pried up
    let the trainers sort it out with their clients ...



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 10, 2004
    Posts
    2,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hpilot View Post
    I really don't want to kick them out. Both are very good renters as far as paying on time, etc. and we all get along fine. One of the trainers has many clients and mostly children, but she is just too busy to police them. She needs a barn manager, but none of my business,I guess. We have sat down and discussed the wash rack uncleaniness, etc. but that didn't last long. I even have round rubber matting with small holes in it to cover the drains, but they have been moved aside. One of the drains has been pried up, hence my reasoning that manure was being shoved down the drain, instead of picking up. Uggghh!!! This drain pipe is large around and underground running about 200 feet long.

    Looks like new addendum on top of old addendum about cleaning up, will need to be put forth. Meanwhile the wash stalls are closed and I have set up temporary wash space around the back of the barn in the grassy area. Their boarders already complaining to me when they see me........ because you have to walk to turn the water on and no where to tie their horse. Oh, to be independently wealthy!!! I'm too old to run this whole place anymore.
    Thanks for listening!

    You know, the funny thing is....I have another farm I rent out. It is about 15 miles from here. They take care of all their problems on their own dime and never expect me to do anything, except for house repairs that aren't their fault. It's because I am out of sight, but because I live on this property, they all expect me to foot the bill for everything! Maybe, I'll just move! LOL!
    Bolding mine. Maybe this will make them more aware of RESPECTING your request to keep the wash stalls clean.
    Honey badger don't give a sh!t.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2011
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida
    Posts
    56

    Default

    You have to have them cleaned and fixed.. a problem like that will just get worse...I would fix them and then close them/block them. If the renter feels that they need the nice wash racks then ask for a deposit towards future repairs. Make sure it is enough to repair the drains back to working order..If they have to pay for the repair they will think twice about letting their clients dump poop in the drain.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2009
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    245

    Default

    I had this problem once before. I had a trainer here who actually body clipped horses in the wash stalls at night when I wasn't around. Once they became clogged and the trainer had been asked to leave, it cost us a several thousand to get them repaired. It was a mess. 200 feet of hair. It was bubbling up in the drain field and we had to have heavy equipment come in. I am "skeered" to find out. Oh why me?

    I know it must be fixed. All your answers are great ones and they all make sense. I would have flown off the handle and billed them for this mess, but maybe we can work out a solution where the trainers each pay 1/3 of the bill, and me paying 1/3. I am thinking that sounds really fair, considering I do not use those wash racks at all.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2009
    Posts
    552

    Default

    A wash stall is a luxury for some. Come ON people. Do you throw hair and manure down your shower at home?? Duh.

    I can't believe you are willing to pay for any of it OP. Trainers should bill each client a portion of the cost of stupidity.

    It is pure laziness and lack of respect for your property.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2009
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howardh View Post
    A wash stall is a luxury for some. Come ON people. Do you throw hair and manure down your shower at home?? Duh.

    I can't believe you are willing to pay for any of it OP. Trainers should bill each client a portion of the cost of stupidity.

    It is pure laziness and lack of respect for your property.
    I love this answer! I must say.....I agree with the lack of respect thing. That seems to come with the territory of rental property, unfortunately!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Pay to have the wash stalls working again. Have a talk with both trainers and explain one more time how the wash stalls are cleaned. Then ask them to pay half the bill. If it happens again, they pay all of the bill.
    ^^This.^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Hpilot View Post
    <snip>She needs a barn manager, but none of my business,I guess. We have sat down and discussed the wash rack uncleaniness, etc. but that didn't last long. I even have round rubber matting with small holes in it to cover the drains, but they have been moved aside. One of the drains has been pried up, hence my reasoning that manure was being shoved down the drain, instead of picking up. Uggghh!!! This drain pipe is large around and underground running about 200 feet long.
    Oh, hell no! If you've already had this conversation with trainer(s) and had to foot the bill once, it's time to make them pay for all of it ( they can split it if it makes them feel better). Some people aren't willing to make changes until you hit them where it hurts - in the wallet.

    Their boarders already complaining to me when they see me........ because you have to walk to turn the water on and no where to tie their horse. Oh, to be independently wealthy!!! I'm too old to run this whole place anymore.
    Thanks for listening!
    Politely explain to them that one (some?) of their own, have caused this problem, and until you can be certain it won't happen again, the wash stalls are off limits. Even horse people need to understand that choices have consequences.

    You know, the funny thing is....I have another farm I rent out. It is about 15 miles from here. They take care of all their problems on their own dime and never expect me to do anything, except for house repairs that aren't their fault. It's because I am out of sight, but because I live on this property, they all expect me to foot the bill for everything! Maybe, I'll just move! LOL!
    So it goes, with people who are only renting and don't own; they think the owners should pay for everything, regardless of who causes the expensive problem. One very large reason why I turned down Mr. ESG's idea about owning and renting rental properties - it just isn't worth the aggravation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    Have them cleaned and restored to working order. Pay the bill. Then close them off, and tell your tenants politely that, should they wish to use the amenities, they need to pay for the damage done by their clients.

    If clients bitch to you, politely explain that the amenities were being abused by thoughtless people, and that you could not afford multiple repair bills for them.

    And don't forget an addendum to the leases, specifying that the washrack maintenance/damage is the responsibility of the tenants, should they pony up for the repair.
    ^^This, in spades.^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Hpilot View Post
    I had this problem once before. I had a trainer here who actually body clipped horses in the wash stalls at night when I wasn't around.
    God bless you, girl!
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2008
    Posts
    5,001

    Default

    What does your lease say about who's responsible for maintenance?

    If the wash rack is part of the lease, you may have a hard time denying anyone access. Hopefully, your lease is worded in such a way that the renters are responsible for the maintenance.

    If not, damages that were caused by deliberate actions on the part of the renter may make them responsible, but you'd have to prove it.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Fish View Post
    If the wash rack is part of the lease, you may have a hard time denying anyone access. Hopefully, your lease is worded in such a way that the renters are responsible for the maintenance.
    Or that the lessee is responsible for any damage caused. Damages and maintenance are two very different things.

    If not, damages that were caused by deliberate actions on the part of the renter may make them responsible, but you'd have to prove it.
    Pretty easy to prove, if OP's tenants are the only ones using that particular part of the property, IMO.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2009
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    245

    Default

    The wash racks are NOT a part of the lease, per se. It is an area where boarders of each rented barn....(I have two) can use jointly. My lease for each barn stipulates any areas in use by said tenants are to be clean after each use. Because it hasn't been kept clean, I have this problem. Mr. Hpilot is over there now and I should know just how bad the damage is shortly, hopefully he will be able to dislodge the clog.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
    Location
    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
    Posts
    15,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howardh View Post
    A wash stall is a luxury for some. Come ON people. Do you throw hair and manure down your shower at home?? Duh.
    There's the making of a great sign in this...
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2002
    Location
    between the barn and the pond
    Posts
    14,495

    Default

    I'd present the two renters with a copy of the bill and make it clear that 'we' are all learning from this lesson. You'll each pay a third. they should make their third payable to you. So you pay it all upfront, and don't screw the contractor who has no part of the blame, but is owed for cleaning it up.

    Then I'd keep those wash racks disabled- as in the water is OFF and the access to it, blocked in a fixed manner- Nailed shut if that is what it takes. You catch them tinkering with it get a plumber or do it yourself....cap the water lines that feed that area. Done.

    If they want to regain use of that area, you need to modify your contracts so that cost of cleaning them is built in, and scheduled for once every 2 years, or sooner as needed. That could be tricky, perhaps someone else has a better idea on that .

    I am not eager to prove either tenant is knowingly in the wrong: it may be sneaky boarder(s) of theirs, and they don't even know some one was stuffing manure down the drain.



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