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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nin View Post
    So the Registry is still open, to register horses and transfer ownerships, I assume. So what did the now-closed Association do? Put on shows? What will not be happening for Saddlebred owners while the Association is closed?
    There was a long thread on TROT.com, asking basically, the same thing. What happens if ASHA ceases to exist (question there was go bankrupt)? They don't run any shows other than Louisville, their grasp of marketing the breed generally appears tenuous at best and their magazine is forgetable. Other than tally year end awards & update the website not much would be missed without them. Which, IMO, is why the CSMs started asking questions.

    One could also wonder why the same number of employees are processing registrations since the numbers of registrations have dropped significantly in the last few years?



  2. #22
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    Well, I am not willing to trade one of these groups, for the other. The individual that started who CSM group is, IMHO, one of the least trustworthy people I can imagine, and their only agenda is- their own agenda!!

    However, there needs to be some house cleaning. I just do not want to see us lose any more ground in supporting alternative disciplines, and believe me, the CSMs haven't got any use, whatsoever, for anything that is not their definition of a show horse...no use, at all.
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  3. #23
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    I didn't say that one group was any better than the other, just my opionion about what might go away during ASHA's...sabbatical. I don't think that ASHA is doing much to promote sport horses or show horses right now. I don't think they are doing much of anything. Goes back to the 1980's soap opera comparison - they didn't really have a good side and a bad side, both sides were equally capable of screwing someone.

    The last thing I would ever do in the saddle (or any other***) horse business is trust any of them. I may respect their experience and knowledge, but definitly not trust them!

    ***the Arab pyramid schemes of the 1980s anyone?
    Last edited by red mares; Jul. 26, 2011 at 03:21 PM.



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mares View Post
    The last thing I would ever do in the saddlehorse business is trust any of them. I may respect their experience and knowledge, but definitly not trust them!
    No word of a lie.

    As bad as a lot of us think H/J can be, ASHA is a *viper pit* by comparison - and therein lies a lot of the problem, b/c if you've only ever done ASB shows, then you genuinely don't understand that there CAN be fair judging and there ARE responsive and responsible breed/discipline organizations.

    The most recent (published) iteration of the ASHA By-Laws makes for interesting reading, particularly Article V, Indemnification, which essentially (I'm paraphrasing in plain English) states that all an officer or director has to do is play dumb in a deposition and immediately the entire ASHA membership becomes responsible for that person's legal fees AND any monetary judgments rendered against them!!!!

    In other words, the officers, EComm and BOD can keep milking us for their legal fees pretty much indefinitely, AND we're ALL responsible for paying any judgment rendered against ASHA.

    Not even sure if that's legal, but hey; that hasn't stopped ASHA at any previous point...

    Oddly enough (history being made here! ) I actually agree w/ ASB Stars that the two issues which originally gave rise to the CMs putting in the audit to ASHA are two issues that aren't real high on my "OMG" list. For me, the issue is ASHA's conduct *since* the audit, which has been reprehensible, unethical, illegal, and only seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on.

    Anyone else wondering how many hard drives are mysteriously crashing today while the office is closed?
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Counselor View Post
    Oh. I saw the name of it and was afraid the church was somehow involved...

    Seems like a lot of tempest in a teapot, right from the get go. But then again, I don't follow the ASB world.
    Breed association politics can make Church/church politics look like an elemtary schoolyard get-together.

    G.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Oddly enough (history being made here! ) I actually agree w/ ASB Stars that the two issues which originally gave rise to the CMs putting in the audit to ASHA are two issues that aren't real high on my "OMG" list. For me, the issue is ASHA's conduct *since* the audit, which has been reprehensible, unethical, illegal, and only seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on.
    Anyone else wondering how many hard drives are mysteriously crashing today while the office is closed?
    And by Friday, the office will be spotless, not a scrap of paper to be found anywhere, not even a sticky note. At this point, a fire wouldn't surprise me.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    As bad as a lot of us think H/J can be, ASHA is a *viper pit* by comparison - and therein lies a lot of the problem, b/c if you've only ever done ASB shows, then you genuinely don't understand that there CAN be fair judging and there ARE responsive and responsible breed/discipline organizations.
    Yeah... I grew up riding saddlebreds, and I still absolutely love the breed. I even still love saddle seat done right (hard to find). I thought my whole young life that I would go pro after college...

    Then I kept getting more and more jaded with the judging and the trainers. Then I worked for a couple of total sleazebag trainers that are held in VERY high regard within the industry. Then I was done = ) Found my little leopard appy while working at a saddle seat barn in college and never looked back (well, just a little.)

    I've since moved onto mostly dressage (working on jumping as well but will likely always avoid the hunter scene for similar reasons to ASB land), and while I miss the excitement (there is nothing like hitting the coliseum on a leg waving saddlebred), I do NOT miss all the unethical trainers and judges and their sheep.

    I will always always adore the breed, but I hope its humans can get their crap together. I'd love to see the saddlebred more recognized as an all around horse. Shoot, I'd even love to see the saddle seat ranks clean up their act and get back to basics, but I don't have much hope for that. I think the more unethical saddlebred trainers are going to be the next target after the TWH big lick people get knocked down. I'd hate to see that happen to the breed and the discipline, but I certainly haven't seen many changes for the better since I exited that world.



  8. #28
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    Not defending in the least, but the ASHA does NOT run the World's Championship at the Kentucky State Fair. The KSF does that.

    Also, there are more horses with funky registrations than just Mother Mary, and interestingly enough, some of the same folks were privy to the info on those. Try a particular Western horse shown by a trainer's hub (ammy), but owned by one of the clients. Transfer got back dated to 2 months before the qualifying period for the next year's KSF - even tho horse was actively showing under the ownership of client at least 2 months into the qualifying period.

    Oh the tangled web we weave ...



  9. #29
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    Default IF ONLY !!!

    * IF ONLY THE PEOPLE WERE AS GREAT AS THE ASB BREED ~~~
    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"



  10. #30
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    Yes, we do know you hate that trainer, and you do have good reason.

    Moving on... the trainer of Mother Mary, Sandra Lilly, who is as good as it gets, explained the situation fully on Trot. That is enough for me, frankly, because I had heard the same story from another very involved, and unimpeachable source.

    How do you get the President of the ASHA to quit? If anyone knows, please share that with me. I don't think that the rot goes all the way through, but I do believe it starts at the top. I do believe that kicking and screaming would be involved....
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zu Zu View Post
    * IF ONLY THE PEOPLE WERE AS GREAT AS THE ASB BREED ~~~
    No one is that damn good. Really.
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  12. #32
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    Default OOPS !!~ I STAND CORRECTED !!! YOU ARE RIGHT !

    Quote Originally Posted by ASB Stars View Post
    No one is that damn good. Really.
    OOPS ! I STAND CORRECTED ~~~ ASB Stars ~ YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !
    Last edited by Zu Zu; Jul. 26, 2011 at 09:49 PM.
    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"



  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CA ASB View Post
    Not defending in the least, but the ASHA does NOT run the World's Championship at the Kentucky State Fair. The KSF does that.

    .
    Sorry that was me, I had heard it somewhere. I thought ASHA did SOMETHING. Apparently I was wrong.

    There's a lot of gripes here about crooked ASB trainers, but honestly they are in every breed/discipline. How many Arabs died in the 80's for the insurance $$$? As a kid I remember some horses being used as mules to transport drugs & it wasn't in the ASB world. H/J isn't all roses either - I think a friend of my mother's ended up dead as a result of his dealings with H/J people. It was hunter ponies that got Ratemyhorsepro started.

    I never really got the fuss about Mother Mary. As long as there was no disagreement between the current and previous owners about who collected the prize money, who cares who's name was on the papers? None of my business. The horse stayed with the same trainer the whole time & she was the best horse in the ring that night, regardless of who owned her.



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CA ASB View Post
    Also, there are more horses with funky registrations than just Mother Mary, and interestingly enough, some of the same folks were privy to the info on those. Try a particular Western horse shown by a trainer's hub (ammy), but owned by one of the clients. Transfer got back dated to 2 months before the qualifying period for the next year's KSF - even tho horse was actively showing under the ownership of client at least 2 months into the qualifying period.

    Oh the tangled web we weave ...
    I wonder, will he be an angel forever?



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffani B View Post
    I wonder, will he be an angel forever?
    And you wonder why I will not share sensitive information with you?
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  16. #36
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    This is from ASB Voice's FB site-

    Simon Fredricks
    The "office closed" press release by ASHA is a transparent, pathetic and clumsy
    attempt to demonized the CM.
    On 22July Stopher told the court that ASHA had ALL the records available on 19July. The staff stated that all records could be produced in less than a day
    electronically. Additionally,The judge ORDERED that ALL Balch's records be given to CM by August 5 with the other listed documents.
    17 hours ago

    Aside from the obvious grammatical issues, this makes it clear that even a year and a half after Alan Balch's departure, the "witch hunt" continues. The mere fact that Fredricks needs to highlight this specific information speaks volumes.
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mares View Post
    IThe last thing I would ever do in the saddle (or any other***) horse business is trust any of them. I may respect their experience and knowledge, but definitly not trust them!
    I don't know... I'm losing respect for a LOT of them at the speed of light.
    Why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?
    ~ Dave Barry



  18. #38
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    This mess is hardly unique to the ASHA. This crap goes on everywhere. The unique part of the situation is that the Saddlebred community is so relatively small....so a lot more people know more about the details of the "soap opera" than usual. Many of us personally know people (whether we want to or not!) involved in these sketchy transfers, members of the BOD, folks in the office, etc. so it becomes a lot more personal. RedMares hit on some of the scams/abuse that are widespread in other industries.



  19. #39
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    The Morgan world has gone through stuff like this, too. Several (many?) times. Some of it is tension between "show" people and "pleasure/work" people. Some of it stems from a meeting held decades ago... and ironically enough, some from documented "behind the barn" use of Saddlebreds in Morgan breeding after the studbook was closed in the late 1940s. The registry/AMHA has nearly gone bankrupt in the past fighting lawsuits, though at the moment things are pretty quiet.

    The two breeds have a lot in common besides heritage: a small, wealthy group of "show" owners/trainers/etc. who have a lot of power, high financial barrier to entry if you want to do well at breed shows, rapidly declining foal registrations (Morgans down to about 1500/year from 3500/year maybe 10 years ago), aging breeders without a lot of younger folks coming up to take over, dominance of the "show" horse meaning a lot of horsepeople outside the breed ring don't know just how *wonderful* these horses can be for sport, etc.

    Very sad, in any case. These horses are part of the American heritage!
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by 1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffani B View Post
    I wonder, will he be an angel forever?



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