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  1. #1
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    Default Spin off friend dilemma and the thread in off course about the kittens.

    Ok, maybe this is more of a vent, but these two threads have me thinking.

    Why, oh why are some people's animals more "worthy" of care than others??

    I know of someone who will do anything for their dog (well except train it), but the "barn cats"? No dice. They get hurt, sick, etc., they are on their own.

    When I found this out about this person, it completely changed my opinion of them. Forever, and not in a good way.

    And it is often cats that fall victim to this mentality.

    You see it all too often, just chuck the animal when it becomes
    inconvenient, ill, old, no longer suitable.

    Sorry, I know I am not really going anywhere with this, but I just went through something with someone I know about a cat and I am still seething....the cat I'm sure will end up as my problem/responsibility/expense, and the other person will just be able to ignore it.
    Last edited by Brandy76; Jul. 21, 2011 at 03:36 PM. Reason: spelling
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  2. #2
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    Because some people are souless turds!!

    I have a new puppy. I did...not...want...another animal of any kind but I have a new puppy.
    Why?
    Because some souless turd threw out a puppy (probabaly their dog's pup) that they didn't want. She probably was taken straight from her mom and out you go!
    Still has puppy breath and was fat but of course was full of every kind of worms that pups can have.

    But HAHAHA to whoever threw little Maggie out. She's turning out to be a blessing and has been soooo good for my husband who has never gotten excited about a dog before. She is very very smart and full of it and while I really thought four dogs, two horses, two cats, an amazon parrot and three cockateils and three doves was enough for two seventy year old people I have to say I'm glad she's here.

    I'm glad she's here but to whoever dumped her.....well maybe I'd better not say that.

    Whoever it was will probably continue to keep Mama dog and in six months or so there will be more puppies to dump. After all those pups aren't THEIR responsibility are they? Turd.
    You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.



  3. #3
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    Default

    I hear ya.

    Indoor animals vs outdoor animals seem to have a big gap (this excludes horses. We know horse people are crazy ) in the level of care or commitment from the owner. Barn cats vs house cats. Indoor dogs vs chained/kenneled. This makes sense cognitively: if the pet is in the woods vaguely around the barn somewhere, you don't have to smell it, hear it, see it, or think about it vs the cat wrapping around your legs as you brush your teeth in the morning.

    I don't understand how the same person can value one animal more than another to the point of excluding basic care, as in the case of the Off Course thread lady who cared for one horse to the nines and didn't even trim the hooves of the other. Her kitties make me really sad. She'll probably just get more .

    Am I guilty of having a favorite? Sure though I know it's wrong. But they all get identical care.



  4. #4
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    Well, all of mine get good, basic care, but let's say some assorted pets get hit by a car and suffer fractures/internal bleeding and need very expensive vet care. I wouldn't hestitate for a dog or a horse, but I suspect the cat or pet rabbit would just get PTS.

    Barn cats are, in many people's minds, basically wild animals. You might put out food to keep them around to catch mice, but that's as far as it goes. I put out wormer for the foxes so they can catch the rabbits that eat the garden, but I don't think you'll find me live-trapping them and taking them to the vet for any reason- that's how many people feel about barn cats.



  5. #5
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    Exactly. I am not in any way playing holier than thou, but I have run into this a few times lately, and I am disgusted with it.

    And it does not matter what the income/fame/fortune level is, either.
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  6. #6
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    I think many people are guilty of treating their animals inequally, but good people have a decent "basic level of care/quality of life" standard.

    For example, last fall my then thee year old mare got a horrendous fungal infection in her eye, and I opted to have the vet hospital attempt the conjuctival graft surgery. Which ultimately failed and she lost the eye anyhow, but that's not really germaine to this discussion. However, if I was in the same situation with one of my older retired horses, I would have had them enucleate earlier, rather than spending $$ trying to save the eye.

    Under no condition would I leave the eye untreated to cause pain and suffering in any animal in my care ever, though.

    All my horses are vaccinated, have their teeth done and their feet trimmed, all are fed appropriately for their age and condition.

    All of them recieve vet care when it is needed, but there are limits to how far I'm willing to go for each and every one of them, and those limits are not the same for all. If I am unable to achieve an acceptable quality of life within those limits, then I will euthanize.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland



  7. #7
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside View Post
    All of them recieve vet care when it is needed, but there are limits to how far I'm willing to go for each and every one of them, and those limits are not the same for all. If I am unable to achieve an acceptable quality of life within those limits, then I will euthanize.
    This is a great summary of what I interpret as the mission statement of this thread.



  8. #8

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    And thats why I'm a vegetarian.



  9. #9
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    Default

    I have your perceived double standard. The dogs get better care than the barn cats. The dogs are considered family members but the cats are employees/independant contractors. I like them. I spay and vaccinate them for rabies. I will treat minor problems if possible and euthanize if the problem isn't treatable. But unlike the dogs, the cats are free to come and go as they please. I can't control them or the risky behaviors they engage in.

    Frankly, it's just not practical to spend a ton of money on a cat that could go and get hit by a car or killed by a coyote the day after the check clears. I live on a very busy road with a lot of coyotes. I calculated my cat mortalitly rate to be 75% within the first year.

    Now if you'd like to pay the barn cat vet bills, I'd be willing to reconsider my position.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherold View Post
    I have your perceived double standard. The dogs get better care than the barn cats. The dogs are considered family members but the cats are employees/independant contractors. I like them. I spay and vaccinate them for rabies. I will treat minor problems if possible and euthanize if the problem isn't treatable. But unlike the dogs, the cats are free to come and go as they please. I can't control them or the risky behaviors they engage in.

    Frankly, it's just not practical to spend a ton of money on a cat that could go and get hit by a car or killed by a coyote the day after the check clears. I live on a very busy road with a lot of coyotes. I calculated my cat mortalitly rate to be 75% within the first year.

    Now if you'd like to pay the barn cat vet bills, I'd be willing to reconsider my position.
    That's a totally fair position.

    I think the problem being discussed here is when people have barn cats and then let them turn into mangy, flea ridden wrecks and don't bother to euthanize when it's desperately needed.



  11. #11
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    Default Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by jherold View Post
    I have your perceived double standard. The dogs get better care than the barn cats. The dogs are considered family members but the cats are employees/independant contractors. I like them. I spay and vaccinate them for rabies. I will treat minor problems if possible and euthanize if the problem isn't treatable. But unlike the dogs, the cats are free to come and go as they please. I can't control them or the risky behaviors they engage in.

    Frankly, it's just not practical to spend a ton of money on a cat that could go and get hit by a car or killed by a coyote the day after the check clears. I live on a very busy road with a lot of coyotes. I calculated my cat mortalitly rate to be 75% within the first year.

    Now if you'd like to pay the barn cat vet bills, I'd be willing to reconsider my position.


    Bold mine. Wow. Uhmm, since I have paid the vet bills for more than 28 already, put me down for no, I don't want to pay your vet bills.
    I am, however, not willing to any longer pay those of others who treat their dogs, and completely ignore their barn cats, who eventually show up at my barn ill or injured. Which was the point of this thread.

    Wayside, and bort - thanks. Your posts illustrated my point better than I did. Although I admit to treating my barn cats like pets!
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  12. #12
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    Jun. 14, 2006
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    Default

    I think there is a minimum standard of care which...to me...means that you don't let living things suffer and you don't starve/neglect them.

    I am currently in the middle of a "family" issue regarding bunnies. Fiance's sister insists that I'm a fruit loop with regards to pets.

    She thinks I'm over the top in my care. She might be right. But being over the top doesn't HURT the animals. Just my bank account.

    On the other hand, she has no problem leaving her house dogs in the garage with a bit of food and water while she goes on vacay for a week. I have a problem with that. She had no problem letting her geriatric dog rot to death from the inside out. I did. I threatened AC...she finally euth'd.

    As long as they aren't suffering, I'm okay with a WIDE range of animal husbandry.

    I am not a cat fan. I HATE cats in barns. They piss on and scratch saddles. No like. But I still think they should be spayed/neutered, get vaccinated and be euth'd if in bad shape! I won't ever have a cat in my house. HATE CATS. I'm allergic, I feel like they are relatively worthless as pets and I don't want one. but I'd still not let one suffer a broken leg. (WTF?) or not FEED them.

    Some people are just asshats.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  13. #13
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    Sep. 23, 2010
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    Default

    [QUOTE=Brandy76;5732409]Ok, maybe this is more of a vent, but these two threads have me thinking.

    Why, oh why are some people's animals more "worthy" of care than others??

    I know of someone who will do anything for their dog (well except train it), but the "barn cats"? No dice. They get hurt, sick, etc., they are on their own.

    When I found this out about this person, it completely changed my opinion of them. Forever, and not in a good way.

    And it is often cats that fall victim to this mentality.

    You see it all too often, just chuck the animal when it becomes
    inconvenient, ill, old, no longer suitable.


    I guess the same reason why so many "animal lovers" dote on their personal cat/dog/horse/bird, etc, yet turn a blind eye to the suffering of similar animals suffering on factory farms/cosmetic testing laboratories/fur farms, etc. I know a lot more animal lovers than vegetarians, so this disconnect is quite common. And yes, I am an ethical vegetarian (almost, but not quite vegan).



  14. #14
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    What does being vegetarian/vegan have to do with someone's standards of dog and cat care?



  15. #15
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    Exactly, Mara.

    There's a situation right now that has me really ticked off. Lady at church (innocent party) took in a cat that had been thrown out on the street by some other folks prior to their move. The cat was very pregnant and DECLAWED. Who on earth pays to have a cat declawed but can't spring for a spay? And boy, that says something about their priorities (furniture). Said same folks who tossed cat have a little dog that is doted upon. Church lady is NOT a cat person, in fact not historically a pet person, but took in cat because she couldn't stand the pregnant cat wandering around in this heat looking for doors. And, of course, it couldn't hunt. This is not an outdoor cat; it's been a pet. Totally confused. Poor kitty.

    Church lady tried to give me the cat a few weeks ago, since I am known for horses and cats. I turned her down, as my situation has no place for a mama and litter right now even if I needed more cats. Nowhere to isolate from existing cats. I did, though, give some suggestions (get a nest box, put out word for kittens on the grapevine with all her acquaintances, check into low cost spay/neuter clinic). Update from last week: No kittens yet, but she has a few spoken for, and she has arrangements with the spay/neuter place. She's actually starting to like the mama cat. Beautiful, well-mannered cat, she says.

    But the thought of those jerks who DECLAWED a cat, couldn't be bothered to spay as well, then tossed it out pregnant in 100-degree summer while they love on their precious dog burns me. I guess they blamed the cat for getting pregnant. And whose fault was that, idiots?



  16. #16
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    Thanks Bicoastal and Brandy76, I'm glad I managed to explain that well.

    I don't actually have barn cats. Too many coyotes in the vicinity, and we have a semi-resident fox that likes to hunt near our barn.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    What does being vegetarian/vegan have to do with someone's standards of dog and cat care?
    If you really want to know ...The OP and others asked why "some" people care for more for some animals and less for others. I am pointing out that most people are this way.

    Most animal lovers who are disgusted by others' treatment of their pets/horses, and wonder why someone who loves their house cat and ignores the barn cat, themselves have a double standard about which animals deserve care and consideration (pets vs livestock).

    If you truly do not understand, you must not know about the inherent cruelties of mass meat production in this country, and you might want to educate yourself if you care about animal suffering.

    Numerous recent documentaries including "earthlings", Food Inc, and the soon to be released "forks over knives" explore this issue. Extensive literature is also available, including "Dominion" by Matthew Scully, a former speech writer for President George W Bush.

    I take excellent care of all of my animals, and I am disheartened by stories of pet abuse and neglect. I extend this consideration to farm animals as well, and I consider their suffering as real and important as that of the neglected cat/dog/horse next door. That is the main reason why I don't eat meat - I don't condone animal abuse



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    What does being vegetarian/vegan have to do with someone's standards of dog and cat care?
    If you have high standards for dogs and cat are, and you think cats and dogs deserve humane treatment, do you not think that pigs, cattle, sheep etc, who are also mammals with individual personalities and who can also suffer should receive the same? And if not, why so?



  19. #19
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    Most animal lovers who are disgusted by others' treatment of their pets/horses, and wonder why someone who loves their house cat and ignores the barn cat, themselves have a double standard about which animals deserve care and consideration (pets vs livestock).

    If you truly do not understand, you must not know about the inherent cruelties of mass meat production in this country, and you might want to educate yourself if you care about animal suffering.
    what makes you assume we all have a double standard? I am fully aware of the horrors of factory farming and don't support it by buying only free-range humanely raised and slaughtered meat (+eggs). I'm not a vegetarian and will never be one for health reasons- it's not a healthy way to eat. I worked in a lab and can assure you lab animals don't really suffer- many lab animals have far better lives than many pets.

    Besides, letting your cat suffer with a broken leg for days, or starving your horse to death is FAR greater cruelty than crowding a bunch of healthy cows into a feedlot for a few weeks.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by allintexas View Post
    If you really want to know ...The OP and others asked why "some" people care for more for some animals and less for others. I am pointing out that most people are this way.

    Most animal lovers who are disgusted by others' treatment of their pets/horses, and wonder why someone who loves their house cat and ignores the barn cat, themselves have a double standard about which animals deserve care and consideration (pets vs livestock).

    If you truly do not understand, you must not know about the inherent cruelties of mass meat production in this country, and you might want to educate yourself if you care about animal suffering.

    Numerous recent documentaries including "earthlings", Food Inc, and the soon to be released "forks over knives" explore this issue. Extensive literature is also available, including "Dominion" by Matthew Scully, a former speech writer for President George W Bush.

    I take excellent care of all of my animals, and I am disheartened by stories of pet abuse and neglect. I extend this consideration to farm animals as well, and I consider their suffering as real and important as that of the neglected cat/dog/horse next door. That is the main reason why I don't eat meat - I don't condone animal abuse
    I see from some of your previous posts that you ride and show hunters. Am I to assume that you use all synthetic tack and your riding boots are rubber? Because you know where leather comes from, right?
    Honey badger don't give a sh!t.



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