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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2011
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    Default 'Folding' at fences

    I had a lesson a couple of hours ago and as I am watching the videos my dad took, over the smaller jumps (21 in - 2 ft) My folding is appropriate (parallel to the horses' neck), but over a higher fence, I am jumping it like it was a smaller jump and it looks like I am standing straight up!!! Then, I sat down to early and unfortunatley yanked the pony I was riding. :/ Next time jumping the higher fence, I did the same sit-straight-up thing and I sat down WAY to early, like right in the middle of the jump, but this time I didn't yank the pony. I know most people would say to go back to smaller fences, but I fold fine/release fine/and don't sit back too early on smaller jumps, but on the bigger ones, everything goes wrong. What are some techniques I can try to master my fold and timing on bigger jumps?? Thanks
    Needs to invest in a sign that says 'Gone Riding' so people won't wonder why I am never home.



  2. #2
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    Mar. 24, 2010
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    Gymnastics with your eyes closed (on a horse who doesn't stop). Helped me anyway. You can make them very low, but it sounds like you're going too early/throwing yourself forward. Over a big jump you end up getting your butt spanked if you do that, because the horse is still jumping as you're returning to where the saddle was. Taking away the vision makes you have to feel what the horse is doing, but it's easy to just open your eyes if your situation is iffy. A combination of jumping with my eyes closed and thinking about trying to touch my butt to the back of the saddle helped me. The butt to back of saddle is a personal thing, though, and depends on what you're actually doing wrong vs. what you're feeling - for some people it's a very bad idea to try to feel that as with their problems they end up getting left behind dangerously.

    (And also listen to other people, as I'm no expert... just sharing what worked for me!)
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  3. #3
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    Jan. 25, 2011
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    I did that when I started in the bigger jumpers. I'd sit up too soon if the distance to the next fence looked funky or whatever. It helped me to think about the backside of the fence like a hunter... They stay up and OUT of that tack for 2-3 strides afterwards and stay out of the horse's way so it can recover fluidly and naturally. That made all the difference in the world.

    Also, I'd stay away from any jumping without hands, that tends to make this kind of problem worse. Jumping grids with your eyes closed is definitely a good idea though, as long as you're on a very honest pony.

    From your other posts, it sounds like you're riding schoolies and don't own your own yet, so I'd talk this over with your trainer as well, assuming I'm right and that these are school horses.
    I've heard there's more to life than an FEI tent and hotel rooms, so I'm trying it.



  4. #4
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    Sounds like a timing thing. Over the bigger fences...you are in the air slightly longer and need to actually KEEP your hip angle closed.

    So let the horse jump up to you then you hold that position longer. So what you are describing in the video sounds like it is showing is a weakness in your two point....you are not holding it (takes some core strength).

    What works for me is to concentrate on landing in the top of my leg. Practice on the flat by shortening your stirrups, go into two point closing your hip angle but keeping your shoulders up and open. Really feel the weight going through your hips into your leg letting your ankles and knees flex with the movement of the horse trotting and cantering.


    Then when jumping the bigger jumps really think about landing IN two point. You do not sit up as much as the horse drops away from your chest while you keep your hip angle closed and use your core strength to keep your shoulders off their neck.

    It is hard to verbalize this...but when you feel it...you will get it! Takes practice.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  5. #5
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    Apr. 22, 2011
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    Default

    AppyGoLucky- I am riding lesson horses sadly, I do not own a horse of my own yet :/ (however I would rather not right now until I get all of my important riding kinks out) the pony I rode yesterday was very honest and forgiving, (thankfully). And actually, we did gymnastics yesterday!!! And from the video, I was folding most over the gymnastics!! Maybe next time I just ride w/o taking a lesson, I will set up a triple and make two smaller fences and the last one big?? Also, people have told me to grab mane where my hands should be over the fence, so my hands can asct like a focal point and I can fold down towards them. I have tried that before and it worked quite well, but ever since switching barns and not taking a lesson in like 6 months, my eq is really bad :/ thanks so much for the advice!! I am going to try the eyes-closed thing next time
    Needs to invest in a sign that says 'Gone Riding' so people won't wonder why I am never home.



  6. #6
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    just be careful...YOU do not fold. The horse jumps up and you allow thier movement to close your hips. Over little jumps...this will not be much unless they are over jumping Grab mane and just let things happen a bit...if you start thinking too much and doing too much...you will end up over folding (ask me how I know).
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  7. #7
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    This might be a time to use a neckstrap. Holding onto the neckstrap will stop you from falling back
    a) while you get used to what it FEELS like to stay forward longer
    b) while you develop the strength you need to STAY in position for the whole fence.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  8. #8
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    Apr. 22, 2011
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    Default

    Thanks for posting that. I will tell my trainer about using a neck strap!!!
    Needs to invest in a sign that says 'Gone Riding' so people won't wonder why I am never home.



  9. #9
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Sounds like a timing thing. Over the bigger fences...you are in the air slightly longer and need to actually KEEP your hip angle closed.
    Exactly what I wanted to say.
    Click here before you buy.



  10. #10
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    Apr. 22, 2011
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    Default

    Oh, and what do you guys think of jumping gymnastics with no reins?? Not no hands, just no reins, so that I will have to hold onto the horse's mane??
    Needs to invest in a sign that says 'Gone Riding' so people won't wonder why I am never home.



  11. #11
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    No schooling through gymnastics is ever wasted.
    Click here before you buy.



  12. #12
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    Mar. 19, 2003
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    Palestine, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by x.Eventing.x View Post
    Maybe next time I just ride w/o taking a lesson, I will set up a triple and make two smaller fences and the last one big??

    Does your trainer allow you to jump on your own without being in a lesson? it sounds like that may not be a great idea at this point. Timing issues and standing in the stirrups can get you dumped pretty hard if the pony decides to stop-- which even the nicest schooling pony will do after being bumped in the back and caught in the mouth too often. I also wouldn't suggest trying a whole lot of new exercises outside of lessons at this point in your riding. It's too easy to get something wrong or teach yourself/the pony a bad habit. Let your trainer design the exercises to address the issue in lessons, and use your "on your own" riding time to work a lot in 2-point and posting without stirrups to strengthen that lower leg so it CAN hold you in position long enough to make it over the larger jumps.

    As far as addressing the problem mentally, don't think "fold" or "lean forward" over the jump so much as "butt back." I still have to go back pretty often and address equitation even after years and years of riding and owning my own horses, and the number one reminder I have to give myself (for jumping, at least) is "butt back."
    Last edited by archieflies; Jul. 19, 2011 at 03:28 PM. Reason: typos
    *#~*#~*#~*#~*
    Proud Momma of *Capital Kiss* and Bottle Rocket!



  13. #13
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    Mar. 19, 2003
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by x.Eventing.x View Post
    Oh, and what do you guys think of jumping gymnastics with no reins?? Not no hands, just no reins, so that I will have to hold onto the horse's mane??
    If you're working on no reins, the purpose is to be balancing with your legs, not your hands... practiving grabbing main in this case is only going to teach you to rely MORE on your hands... which means your legs still aren't doing their job, and when you take your reins back you're going to be balancing on them and your poor pony's mouth. Grabbing main is an excellent way to keep from catching the pony's mouth when you find yourself in a sticky situation (getting jumped out of the tack, left behind, etc.), but it is NOT something you should be shooting for as an everyday practice.

    Really, please, please talk to your trainer about these things and don't practice any of it without experienced supervision!
    *#~*#~*#~*#~*
    Proud Momma of *Capital Kiss* and Bottle Rocket!



  14. #14
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    Mar. 6, 2006
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    Canada
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    Default

    I agree with the above, time for a chat with your trainer. Jumping without reins is good for ballance, and is usually done with the arms straight out to the sides - wich might actually help you to fold the correct ammount rather then grab face or mane to keep your ballance.

    If you are jumping "ahead" be super careful, and work with your coach to correct this. There is a reason that coaches are allways on our backsides about jumping ahead - and I learned why a few years back, after my "aheadness" casued the youngster I was riding to have a rotational fall.... Not fun. Lucky to not be dead.



  15. #15
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    Aug. 17, 2001
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    Hangin' on by a thread...
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by x.Eventing.x View Post
    Oh, and what do you guys think of jumping gymnastics with no reins?? Not no hands, just no reins, so that I will have to hold onto the horse's mane??

    Trust me on this, it's entirely possible to stand up in your stirrups over a jump whilst holding mane. I speak from experience. I'd take away your stirrups. Can't jump up a horse's neck without something to push against.
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

    So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."



  16. #16
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    Mar. 6, 2006
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    Canada
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    oooohhh... I LIKE this idea ^^^^
    I still can't believe I was never forced to jump w/o stirrups. I'm going to have to try it once pony beast is broke enough to jump.



  17. #17
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    Sep. 12, 2005
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by archieflies View Post
    As far as addressing the problem mentally, don't think "fold" or "lean forward" over the jump so much as "butt back." I still have to go back pretty often and address equitation even after years and years of riding and owning my own horses, and the number one reminder I have to give myself (for jumping, at least) is "butt back."


    This is a very important point, as the only way you can follow the horse's jumping motion by closing your hip angle without getting ahead is to push your hips back.

    OP, I just critiqued a video on my site of a rider doing pretty much exactly what you describe. Here it is: http://www.myvirtualeventingcoach.co...enting_video_9




    http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com
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  18. #18
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    Jan. 25, 2011
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    Southern Pines, NC
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    I'm not sure jumping without stirrups would help this... She's getting left behind more than she's jumping ahead from the sounds of it.

    Also, the "butt back" thing is right. It can be hard to learn though.
    I've heard there's more to life than an FEI tent and hotel rooms, so I'm trying it.



  19. #19
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    Sep. 2, 2010
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    Columbus, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    just be careful...YOU do not fold. The horse jumps up and you allow thier movement to close your hips. Over little jumps...this will not be much unless they are over jumping Grab mane and just let things happen a bit...if you start thinking too much and doing too much...you will end up over folding (ask me how I know).
    Yeah! I was always taught to let the horse's jump put you in position.
    "Red on the right, white on the left, insanity in the middle."



  20. #20
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    Mar. 1, 1999
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    Bucks County, PA, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltmac View Post

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive
    just be careful...YOU do not fold. The horse jumps up and you allow thier movement to close your hips. Over little jumps...this will not be much unless they are over jumping Grab mane and just let things happen a bit...if you start thinking too much and doing too much...you will end up over folding (ask me how I know).

    Yeah! I was always taught to let the horse's jump put you in position.
    And this is why I don't post very often. Everyone else always says what Iwant to say before I get to say it!
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain



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