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  1. #1
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    Default Extended trot?

    withdrawn
    Last edited by dragonharte8; Jul. 18, 2011 at 11:08 PM.



  2. #2
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    dragonharte..... do you have a life???
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    dragonharte..... do you have a life???
    I think the computer is his life



  4. #4
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    Eagerly awaiting Dragonharte's video showing us how it's done.



  5. #5
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    Where is the men doing dressage video, they show a nice extended trot.
    Dawn

    Patience and Consistency are Your Friends



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonharte8 View Post
    Article 404 4.5. Extended trot. The horse covers as much ground as possible. Without hurrying, the steps are lengthened to the utmost as a result of great impulsion
    from the hindquarters. The athlete allows the horse to lengthen the frame and to gain ground whilst controlling the poll, The fore feet should touch the ground on the spot towards which they are pointing.
    The movement of the fore and hind legs should reach equally forward in the moment of extension. The whole movement should be well-balanced and the transition to collected trot should be smoothly executed by taking more weight on the hindquarters.

    Please tell me where Totilas completes an extended trot in his performance? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjy...las-rath_sport
    My video shows me that Totilas is fulfilling the criteria of the extended trot to his physical ability. See where I have underlined above. Gaining knowledge of body types will help you recognize extended versus medium versus collected gaits in horses. Gaining knowledge of dressage principles will help you evaluate the videos you critique and help you answer your own questions.
    Last edited by Arathita; Jul. 18, 2011 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Google enlightens



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by katarine View Post
    Eagerly awaiting Dragonharte's video showing us how it's done.


    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland



  8. #8
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    Watch again. Around 3:10 and 3:57. He certainly preformed as the directives you quoted. The horse is a "freak" in his field, as was Secretariat in his. Learn to enjoy his talent.



  9. #9
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    Actually in all fairness to the OP they have a very good point that in fact the action of the hind end should reflect that of the front end. Truth is alot of horses don't. Its clear to see in these days of technology that many canters are disassociated and four beat.

    Is this a new thing with the breeding program? Is this just because we can see it clearly now in slo mo? I honestly don't know but to reject this statement is just ignoring it. Even the top trainers of today are disturbed by it.

    I watched part of the video and one of the first things I noticed was his hind end not matching. Lots of front end bling.

    Not say I can do any better neither is the OP, I think it was just brought up as a topic to discuss.

    This does not negate how brilliant and amazing this horse is.
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSprats Mom View Post
    Actually in all fairness to the OP they have a very good point that in fact the action of the hind end should reflect that of the front end. Truth is alot of horses don't. Its clear to see in these days of technology that many canters are disassociated and four beat.

    Is this a new thing with the breeding program? Is this just because we can see it clearly now in slo mo? I honestly don't know but to reject this statement is just ignoring it. Even the top trainers of today are disturbed by it.

    I watched part of the video and one of the first things I noticed was his hind end not matching. Lots of front end bling.

    Not say I can do any better neither is the OP, I think it was just brought up as a topic to discuss.

    This does not negate how brilliant and amazing this horse is.
    ^This.^

    But for this to be discussed yet again, and by this person, is just trolling. Many times we have talked about the fact that it's his love, desire and freedom in front that attract us, but that he is lacking in places and has yet been rewarded higher than we (the non-international judges) think is correct based on the criteria being quote.

    It's all old news. Been there, done that, and have the t-shirt that says I love Toto despite this. (I do see a bit of a tendency to reward this, though, in other horses too, and THAT is the only thing I find a bit disconcerting. That and the fact that to try and create what he has, most people are simply slowing their horses down. Go look at Ahlerich compared to a lot of people at shows these days. Tempo is a bit TOO slow.)
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  11. #11
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    agree with you Velvet, discussed to death hence I did not go into great lengths over it.

    Just felt like the OP was getting a little slammed for stating something true. (if they are truly a troll then slam away)
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonharte8 View Post
    that is simply because he (totilas)is the standard being used by the judges.

    ?



  13. #13
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    Um, yeah. Whatever, Spirithorse.

    Why DID you change your name? Too many people have you on ignore?

    Toto is not the standard. He's a freak of nature, as CFFarm noted. He's not perfect and yes, the hinds did not match the fronts in trot extension -- even worse (IMHO) than in the Edward Gal days.

    But that is not ALL there is going on with the horse. Yes, it's a fault, but what about the rest of the test? And what about how he compared overall against the competition?

    Perhaps the judges still liked his performance better than the rest? Perhaps the rest of the field had flaws greater than Toto's?

    As you are not a licensed judge, have no horses trained to or performing at GP, and do not show, WHY do you continue these diatribes, Spirithorse? When will YOU show us how it should be done? Please, oh please enlighten us. Perhaps one of the "upper level" riders you are working with can demonstrate if you cannot.



  14. #14
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    CFFarm is correct, Spirithorse. You can also find your much sought after parallelogram at the latter end of 3:55 and 3:59. Gotta be quick with the pause.

    Will your video be done bitless?



  15. #15
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    Some people believe they can validate themselves by criticizing everyone else around them. Entire cults have been founded on this principle.



  16. #16
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    Jacksprats mom, Velvet and Dragonharte, please go back to my previous post and tell me which part of the underlined was not fulfilled in this video of Totilas? Judges do not mark the height of the front legs, rather the free shoulders, the smooth transitions, and the desire to sit, the extreme rideability. This is all rare together in a horse. He is not a manufactured machine. No horse is. Why do you think he should be perfect?

    The Original Post and Poster stated that he could not find the extended trot in the video. He is completely unschooled if he cannot see the extended trot. But he is not a dressage trainer or trained dressage rider and would benefit from education and humility.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arathita View Post
    Jacksprats mom, Velvet and Dragonharte, please go back to my previous post and tell me which part of the underlined was not fulfilled in this video of Totilas? Judges do not mark the height of the front legs, rather the free shoulders, the smooth transitions, and the desire to sit, the extreme rideability. This is all rare together in a horse. He is not a manufactured machine. No horse is. Why do you think he should be perfect?

    The Original Post and Poster stated that he could not find the extended trot in the video. He is completely unschooled if he cannot see the extended trot. But he is not a dressage trainer or trained dressage rider and would benefit from education and humility.
    Amen sister.

    I am personally perplexed why the objective is that the fore leg should match the hind leg as a parallelagram (sp?) as the hock does not flex and extended in the same range of motion as the knee, and the stifle and shoulder have diferent range of motions. The hind end is supposed to lower and carry, the front end is not also supposed to lower and carry at the same time: rather the front end wants to be lofty and extend.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonharte8 View Post
    Extended trot requires that the forelegs and the hindlegs stride is lengthened. Totilas does not demonstrate that required lengthening!
    You cannot see lengthening? You must educate your eye for this. I wonder what you are looking at when you say this horse does not lengthen.

    This horse fulfills the underlined criteria in my above post. There is a very clear lengthening in the stride and joint articulation based on this horse's conformation. He is not a perfect machine like a car that you can order to specification. He is not a dictionary definition. This horse maximizes what he has and fulfills the criteria for an extended trot. It is his weak movement and he maximizes what he has better than more gifted horses in extended gaits. I believe that is why he scores better than you would like.



  19. #19
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    Thanks, Dudleyc, for saving Dragginheart's post. I missed that one while I was out. Good points regarding the hinds vs. fores, too.

    I see he's slunk off once again, withdrawing his comments.

    What Philistines we are, not to recognize (his) genius!




  20. #20
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    May. 22, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonharte8 View Post
    withdrawn
    I seriously do not understand this. SH/DH comes on and posts then when no one is in awe or agrees, the posts are 'withdrawn'. I think this just proves that these topics are ego based ( as someone else put it in another thread)

    What is the point of starting a thread if you are just going to withdraw all your comments? And this seems to happen OFTEN with this poster. Well, not yet with the rein connection thread. Maybe a countdown to comment withdrawal is in order?



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