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**tyedyecommando** · Dec. 2, 2003, 03:41 PM

So did we ever decide why a ATH or GPA is safer than any other approved helmet (besides having a stripe)? I am not completely buying the "high profile" explanation. It sounds like that girl's helmet did not fit properly to begin with and the last time I checked, EMT were not doctors. Perhaps her neck might have whipped back so fast that the whiplash could have snapped her neck, but it seems a low profile would have stopped her head sooner? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_confused.gif

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ok · Dec. 2, 2003, 04:31 PM

I understand the uniform look... I mean at shows we all have to wear velvet covered hemets and we all use coolers and stuff that match. But thoes helmets are kinda.. well ugly. They wouldn't be bad if they didnt have that stripe or if they were covered. I think the hunter ring needs to get back to what hunters are in the first place. Hope that thoes GPA wearing barns are happy! haha Atleast nobody can be made fun of... right!

Allison *Montego* *Chubby*
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**critter915** · Dec. 2, 2003, 04:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by relocatedTXjumpr:
I thought it was mostly kids with ponies and beginers as well. I dont want to pay $100 for a helmet my kids will grow out of in two months!

B & B Sport Horses

http://community.webshots.com/user/ga_jumpr

Dont put the cart before the horse, unless he knows how to push it of course. ~~ Pat Green<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

let alone $350 http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

**GatoGordo** · Dec. 2, 2003, 04:44 PM

At risk of getting flamed myself, I think the poster referring to the price wasn't saying she wouldn't want to shell out money to protect her hypothetical child's head. There is no proof that the GPA's and ATH's are any safer than the $50 skid lids, so it doesn't make sense to her (or myself) to shell out that kind of money just to follow a trend.

There are only two types of eventers out there: Those who have fallen in the water jump and those that will. -- subk
Founding Member, Bird Nerd Clique; Eventing Yahoo In Training; formerly known as BostonGold

**relocatedTXjumpr** · Dec. 2, 2003, 04:47 PM

Just for the record..I dont have any kids. These days people are taking an issue and flaming others on their won opinion. its a public board and EVERYONE is entiitled to their opinion. I know how much this sport costs, i have been in it for 17 years, if there is a helmet that is approved and just as safe, but cheaper because its not the GPA name...thats what i get. Stop flaming and start dealing with different opinions.

B & B Sport Horses

http://community.webshots.com/user/ga_jumpr

Dont put the cart before the horse, unless he knows how to push it of course. ~~ Pat Green

**critter915** · Dec. 2, 2003, 05:10 PM

wow i hadn't thought of it that way. thanks gatogordo. i just thought she was saying how she wouldn't shell out that much money for a helmet the kid would grow out of in a couple months...(i did catch that the kid was hypothetical)

**poltroon** · Dec. 2, 2003, 05:17 PM

The ENHAP results:

Here is some more info on that test:

http://equest.remus.com/NewsArticles...ionTestin.html

This one is from a Troxel press release but does appear to have additional information:

http://www.bridleandbit.com/artman/p...cle_2373.shtml

I have never seen any published data to suggest that the skunk helmets are safer than the other approved helmets.

**Looking4Trouble** · Dec. 2, 2003, 05:27 PM

I would also like to know why out of the many approved riding helmets the ath and gpa's are required? My family does not have enough money to buy me one. Right now I have a troxel, which I can put a velvet cover on. I don't know if its true or not, but I've heard that a new test said that the troxels past with a higher score than the GPA's? Anyone know if this is true? Just because my parents don't want to spend a fortune on buying me a helmet right now does not mean that they don't want to pretect my head or skull.Actually its quite the opposite. My mom is always worried about something happening to me. ~Charlette~

**Lost In Space** · Dec. 2, 2003, 05:51 PM

I must chime in here on the helmet issues. I own a tack store and also have a daughter who shows. When the approved helmets were required in 12/01 my daughter loudly protested all approved helmets. She was 11 at the time and had never worn an approved one before. Trust me, we tried every ASTM approved helmet on the market. The International ATH fit her the best, because of head shape. She tried the GPA's but the didn't feel right to her. I feel that the back harness on these helmets might hold the helmet on better than a 3 point harness. I also like the softer back and the softer chin strap on this style. Another plus in the "skunks" are they they have some air vents inside and there is a big difference in the heat inside these opposed to the CO's or other without vents. I know the price of the "Skunks" have increased since the beginningbut all helemts have gone up in price. I find that most riders feel that the skunks fit more securely than some other helmets for a majority of the riders I see. I understand other helemts fit well too! This is just my opinion.

**flypony74** · Dec. 2, 2003, 06:41 PM

I think that by limiting the choices you are sacraficing safety, as any correctly fitted, well-cared for approved helmet will be much safer than one of a mediocre fit. I have worn Lexington helmets for years, as they fit me better than any others that I have tried (and I used to run a large tack shop, was trained in fitting helmets correctly, and had the opportunity to try on MANY different ones). To say that my comfortable, well-cared for (like, not left in a hot car, replaced every few years as a helmet should be, etc), properly fitted, ASTM/SEI approved Lexington is less safe is absurd.

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WestWindsJr · Dec. 2, 2003, 07:33 PM

1. "The lesson prices" Maybe you should read past the 1st four lines, we try and discourage once month riding. That is why our lesson prices are so high for lesson if paid for one at a time, we dont have time to waste waiting to see if they my decide to show up that week. If you take one lesson a week it is $45.00 for the hour group and $55.00 for a half hour private. If you take more then one lesson a week or live in "Huntcliff" your lesson go down to $35.00-$40.00 and $45.00-$50.00.
We dont give our lessons on junk, all of our lesson horses are well trained show horses that the kids can take and do well with at the Local GHJA or "A" shows with.

2. "You cant ride your horse without the trainers permission?" Yes you can we have that rule for safety, that question is always asked by boarders or potential boarders. Any one can ride there horse when ever they want, but an "Unsupervised ride" is when there is no other adult on the grounds. I.E: If a mom want to drop there 12yo off to ride and leave and there are no other adults around it is not allowed. But if one of our 16 yo boarder want's to ride with no one around it is all fine and dandy with us if you follow the rules. AND SAFETY and WELL-BEING FOR HORSE AND RIDER COMES 1ST! I dont think I need to explain this further of why you dont let you kid alone at the barn with no one around.....

3. Our board prices, I am not even going to get into that one. It is a "no brainier" .......

4. "Our Helmet rule" We had an error before printing and meant to add the "Tipparery Sportage and the International Pro-Rider were also allowed. We hand wrote it into our hand books and Will edit the web site copy.
We in no way want our rider to look a like, you should see the helmet covers we all wear! It is for safety, in the last year we have had one to many "schooling Helmets" just fall of our riders when riding or falling off. Or the harnesses not being adjusted right, The helmets all have an easy none slipping harness. Once adjusted they STAY! Also they have a lower back to help prevent "whiplash" and hold the helmets more to the head with less unsecured movement. We also have a good hand-me-down program at our barn and if helmet is less then two years old and have not been fallen in we re-sell them with in the barn.....

5. The "Kick back" you all think we may get from the tack store, well your wrong..... We recommend them because of there consumer service. We also willingly tell were the other stores are. You just have to get to know "Neil":-)

6. "RelocatedTXJumpr" We never have and never will have "grooms" or tack up ponies for our kids not even the lesson ones. If you cant tack up your own horse and care for it Happily after work then dont come here. We teach and Help all our kids LEARN how to care for the equine's, even if it takes me twenty times to teach a kid to tack up it gets done....
I dont know when you EVER interviewed for a job with us and nor have we ever looked for help..... Maybe you were there when Kathy was there.... Also I know a thing called "free speech" but if seems to me you have some sort of issue with us, if you do let me know please! Other wise I dont see why you have five post in this topic with only bad things to say, and it looks like you had to do a lot of thinking about how to make us look bad..........

We have a very happy family barn, our kids ride in PJ's over there pants in the cold, we have cookouts, fieldtrips, sleep over's, fundraiser to help needy kids, workdays, clinics and anything else you can think of.... Your all welcome to come see "the place by the river" and see all the work WE have all put into it...... Thank you to all that have seen our reasoning of why we have our rules like we do:-)

**Beau Peep** · Dec. 2, 2003, 07:55 PM

I guess I can kinda see where this is goin...

Yes, I guess if the back WASN'T so high, her head wouldn't have snapped back. So forgive me, I didn't consider that. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_razz.gif

But in the barn's defense, the GPA, ATH, and others mentioned, are all very well fitted, snug helmets. For those in which they fit, the never move on their head. I have borrowed one for a show, and [except for the fact that it was a smidge too small] loved it, it didn't move, it was just as cool as my schooling helmet, and was very comfortable. And I do like the CO helmets, I've never worn one, but from what I know, they weren't as snug on the people's heads as the GPAs were.

But all the helmets mentioned and very safe... for one reason or another.

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**eqnjumperrider** · Dec. 2, 2003, 08:36 PM

Just out of curiousity, could you please explain why the heck you charge different prices for boarding, i have never heard of that.

**Court@HJ-OH** · Dec. 2, 2003, 10:22 PM

**perf** · Dec. 2, 2003, 11:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rider's mom:
have a daughter who shows. When the approved helmets were required in 12/01 my daughter loudly protested all approved helmets. She was 11 at the time and had never worn an approved one before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really? So your 11-year-old daughter was riding with decoration on her head, and no real protection? Didn't that scare you a bit?

**Sing Mia Song** · Dec. 3, 2003, 03:26 AM

I just went and tried on every dang approved helmet at The Surrey, and believe me, I wanted an ATH so badly I could taste it.

But the sad fact is that it doesn't fit me. The International Royale in a long oval, and the CO Showjumper are the only ones that do.

I would think that the most important requirement for a helmet be that it fits and passes the "rock and roll" and head shake tests. Doesn't matter if it covers the back of your neck if it shifts or comes off before you hit the ground!

***********************************************
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
-Mark Twain

**horsey mom** · Dec. 3, 2003, 04:05 AM

Yeah, what SHE said! (thanks WestWindsJr for offering further explanation).

I really was just trying to offer our handbook as a starting point for the trainer looking to create a manual for her riding program. It's the handbook for OUR BARN. If it doesn't suit your needs/wants, there are certainly tons of other barns and trainers to choose from, especially in our area of the world. Our trainers go out of their way to help each and every rider (and their families) reach their potential each and every time they are at the barn and/or at a show. These trainers are truly phenomenal imho, and I value what they openly give to my daughter in terms of skills learned and passions fostered.

**Just My Style** · Dec. 3, 2003, 04:12 AM

This has been bothering me... I am all for hand me downs, really I am. I think that until parents know for sure that their child is really interested in riding, it is worth it to buy used. In fact, my first show outfit was from a thrift store. HOWEVER, it is different for a child to wear someones old breeches than it is for them to wear a helmet. A helmet is a safety device. Even if the helmet never sustains a fall from a horse, the wear and tear on it over time (including being dropped from a tack box on concrete aisle) can deteriorate it. Just because it looks fine on the outside does not mean that it is 100% perfect or safe. Personally, I feel that a child would be safer in brand new out-of-the-box approved, less expensive (or less trendy) helmet than in a used helmet that you really don't know what has been done with it, regardless of the guarantees that it has "never been in a fall".

GA Clique/Drafties Clique
Live Large- Ride a Drafty!

**relocatedTXjumpr** · Dec. 3, 2003, 05:03 AM

westwindjr...I went there about 2 years ago. before they had started remodling...the isles were still dirt if that helps. I was told it was for a beginer teaching position..they needed someone who could do the lessons while they were away at big shows in FL. I do not remember the name of the person I spoke with, it was a woman as Pieree was not there. I was told I would tack up ponies and help the kids to the ring. I was also told that I would untack the ponies and help the kids cool them out after the lessons...maybe this was for a summer camp thing? I do not thing it was called huntcliff then..just westwind. Maybe she was just feeding me full of crap to see if I'd take the job anyway. It was for no money, but lessons.

It is your handbook and you are entitled to put whatever you want in it. I have my horses at home and I dont have to spend x-amount of money to "fit in" here...nor do I have to put up with your flaming or anyone elses. If I dont like a place than its based on my opinion and with any dealings I have had with that place. Not everyone is going to like your barn or your barn rules....There are tons of people here that do not agree with the training methods of my former trainer in TX...but there are some here who ride with him and like him. Thats life, get over it. This barn is pricey for many...maybe not all, but many. The boards rates for different sized horses does not make any sense to me..and yes you do need a helmet rule...but why not allow all approved helmets...or at least something with more of a price range and style...what fits my head may not fit a 10 year old.

And whos to say that a child who rides for two months or so will want to ride the next month? You can sell their stuff, i belive there is a consignment place next to Tack Tavern...but like it was posted early..i dont think buying a used helmet is a good idea.

So...once again...I am entitled to my opinion...as you are yours...you dont know me as i dont know you. I do not ride at your barn, nor have i been there in lets say two years, it could have been longer. I did read the handbook and if i was a customer looking through different websites and had not EVER been to this bran..i would not consider it. too pricey and not enough explanation as to why rules are the way they are.

We need rules to keep us and our horses safe...thats a no brainer.

Stop with the flaming...this board has become unwelcoming...a guestion is asked or an opinion is voiced and you are imediatly critized or judged. I have posted here a while and it seems to be getting worse.

I dont dislike Huntcliffe...nor have I ever posted that I didnt...it is not the barn for me and I simply have posted why. AS the song goes...GET OVER IT!

~~B

B & B Sport Horses

http://community.webshots.com/user/ga_jumpr

Dont put the cart before the horse, unless he knows how to push it of course. ~~ Pat Green

**JRG** · Dec. 3, 2003, 05:18 AM

Although I wouldn't fit into a barn like this but I applaud them for writing it down. We need more barns to write all the fees down so you know exactly what the expenses are going to be.

Most people I know don't mind paying for services rendered but they like to be for warned about such expenses. Publishing a "handbook" lets all people involved with the barn know that everyone is being billed equally or specifically through the book.

I think good job on writing it down and having it available for everyone.

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