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  1. #1
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Default The Mormon Church--How Can They?

    I just finished watching 8: the Mormon Church. I knew a lot of this already, but I'm still appalled.

    This church orchestrates putting anti-gay rights on the ballots and forces their members to donate and work for the causes so they put propositions like 8 in CA on the ballot. They basically are put in the position that if they don't do as the church asks, they go to hell. They were interviewing former members talking about how church elders came to people's homes personally and told them how much they needed to donate. One family with five children was forced to liquidate $50,000 of their savings to "donate." Prop. 8 was one of the most heavily funded propositions in history, mostly by Mormons who don't live in the state.

    And the church wants to keep tax exempt status? How is this legal? And it was SO sad to see such a high suicide and homeless rate of teens because their families basically shun them if they can't "fix themselves."

    It's nothing new in religion, I guess, but I'm just so appalled the good masses of people in any religion do something so horrific just because some old white guy who calls himself a prophet of god says so.

    This is 2011 and it seems to be getting worse.



  2. #2
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    Jan. 28, 2003
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    Default

    Religion scares me..be it catholicism, parelli-ism...whatever...
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  3. #3
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Default

    does sound like every other church around here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  4. #4
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    Religion scares me..be it catholicism, parelli-ism...whatever...
    I grew up under those kinds of mind washing dictatorships and it is scary.

    People that follow any such kind of cults are scary.
    Civility, fairness and common sense are a light veneer over the real brutal humans you find under them.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Religion abused is always scary, but what bothers me even more is the new energy with which they are getting into politics and trying to manipulate this country with "conservative" values. That this group has been going state to state (it started in Hawaii) trying to take rights away from people and has SO much money, power, and manipulative energy in this day and age is so anachronistic. You see it in greater politics, too, with all of these so called "conservative, family values" people who are SUCH hypocrites (having affairs, same sex prostitutes, massive cheating) just like the Mormon church (hello-polygamy.)

    It's like the Middle Ages and Inquisition all over. One guy interviews was at Brigham Young University in the 70's I believe. He was "identified" on a list of homosexuals and brought in for "questioning," where, among other things, he was stripped naked and had electrodes attached to him. I think of the whole list of 12, he was the only one who hadn't disappeared or killed himself.



  6. #6
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    Jan. 18, 2011
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    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    They were interviewing former members talking about how church elders came to people's homes personally and told them how much they needed to donate. One family with five children was forced to liquidate $50,000 of their savings to "donate." Prop. 8 was one of the most heavily funded propositions in history, mostly by Mormons who don't live in the state.
    Seriously??? That's pretty shocking.

    I have been good friends with a number of different Mormon families throughout my life, in various states, and I've never heard of such a thing. The Mormons I've known have been some of the best people I've ever met and not at all like what you are describing.

    I'm not a Mormon (and would NEVER consider being one), but I pretty much think that's one of the great things about this country. You can choose to be religious or not, and it's your choice.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    11,261

    Default

    The Morman church owns a ton of land, mostly in the west. As for church and politics, Obamas Trinity Church was pretty creepy and bigoted....and tax exempt...



  8. #8
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    In Jingle Town
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    Default

    the south is full of creepy bigotted churches. Most of them use the pulpit to influence politics or extort money from the flock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  9. #9
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    Mar. 3, 2010
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    Default

    People have beliefs. Some folks believe in Good some believe in Doctors and degrees and money and power.

    No difference.

    Some folks are passionate about their beliefs. In politics you do try to push your agenda on others because you cannot have it both ways.

    The sad part is not that people have a difference of opinion, it is that both are convinced beyond civility that they are right.

    I find it MUCH scarier that the drug companies have such an impressive amount of influence on anything they want!

    I found most Mormons to be exceptionally nice people altho I don't necessarily share their beliefs.



  10. #10
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    Default

    Yes, Indeean, it's true. I think the average Mormon is a good person. It's the leadership that is a problem. From what was explained, in the Mormon church, if the leadership tells you you must use all means and money to do what they say, you must. They leaders are called prophets and considered to speak for god, and if you don't obey, you go to hell. Basically for this campaign, huge numbers of Mormons who have never contributed to anything political were making HUGE donations--they were saying hundreds of thousands of dollars were coming in from individuals each day.

    SLW--Give it a rest. Obama goes to a church where the guy said something when he wasn't there and thought was inappropriate: http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
    A much worse example in Rv. Warren in S. CA who was all for McCain and held that "debate" where McCain proclaimed abortion was murder and life started at conception to a huge hall of thunderous applause. (He didn't explain how he was going to prosecute all of those "murderers." This is the guy who was great friends with the dictator of Rwanda who slaughtered his people.

    horsefaerie--I completely agree with you on the drug companies. Even more appalling is that now that the Supreme Court has proclaimed that corporations can contribute as much money as they want to political campaigns, what chance is there that anyone who doesn't cater to them gets elected? That's basically what the Mormon church did--they overwhelmed with money and lies.



  11. #11
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    Oct. 25, 2007
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    295

    Default

    If you want to read a couple of extremely eye-opening books, read:

    Under The Banner of Heaven

    ...and...

    Escape

    It's absolutely horrifying, the level of control that church and its leaders have over people's lives and families. Requiring them to donate large sums of money is the least of it!!



  12. #12
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    Nov. 13, 2005
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
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    Default

    My ex grew up in the Mormon church. After they came of age and had a choice, none of the siblings stayed in the faith. I still remember when he told me he got in trouble while at temple and was locked in a dark closet by a worker and told he needed to see what it felt like to live without God's light.



  13. #13
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    Jan. 12, 2010
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    Default

    I have a friend who was raised Mormon whose father was a bishop. As an adult, he is an atheist. He might possibly be the best human being I know, though, and with better principles, morals and discipline than so many of our happy self-proclaimed "Christians" that would have been the first to cast stones at Jesus if he walked here today. Which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
    “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Ghandi

    I personally think there are a lot of really great things about the Mormon church, but I can not believe in the main tenants of its "founder". I do think the individual Mormons (and former Mormons) I've met have been some of the genuinely nicest, best sort of people. I have heard stories of some of the more rabid ones, and obviously ever barrel has its bad apples as well as perfectly shiny, nice fruits. My experience with them have all been good, though.

    Let's not get in to the plural marriages, though...
    I'm not really at the top of my game today. I'm not even exactly sure what game I'm supposed to be playing, in fact... or where it's being held...

    My horse's antics iamboyfriend.com



  14. #14
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    Apr. 8, 2005
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    Kentucky
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    the south is full of creepy bigotted churches. Most of them use the pulpit to influence politics or extort money from the flock.
    Ain't that the truth!

    DH was working out of town with another local guy (Tim). They stayed in a motel and came home on the weekends. Well, one weekend they had to work Saturday and since DH was driving he wasn't about to drive home 5 hours one way for just one day, so they stayed. DH said he had a grand time hanging out barbequeing and whatnot with other construction workers- some of which happened to be black. Tim wouldn't even look a black man in the face. When DH asked him point blank about it- he muttered something about "my preacher said..." If that wasn't bad enough, the (Baptist) church wanted a copy of Tim's paystub, so they could be sure he was tithing correctly, and wanted part of his per diem pay-that was for motel and meals while out of town- as well. AND they couldn't wait until the following week- they expected Tim to WIRE the money. AHole that he is about stuff like that, DH said "Oh Hell No" and wouldn't take him to a Western Union office.

    Then there's the preacher around here that tools around in a Porche with a license plate that reads "God 1". Seriously??? I think that's a bit over the top.

    KY had a Governor for a little while- Ernie Fletcher- that I thought was a pompous POS. But he had one great idea. He wanted to tax the mega-churches (you know, the ones with ampitheaters and such) as entertainment. Boy did I love that idea!



  15. #15
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    In Jingle Town
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shakeytails View Post
    Ain't that the truth!

    DH was working out of town with another local guy (Tim). They stayed in a motel and came home on the weekends. Well, one weekend they had to work Saturday and since DH was driving he wasn't about to drive home 5 hours one way for just one day, so they stayed. DH said he had a grand time hanging out barbequeing and whatnot with other construction workers- some of which happened to be black. Tim wouldn't even look a black man in the face. When DH asked him point blank about it- he muttered something about "my preacher said..." If that wasn't bad enough, the (Baptist) church wanted a copy of Tim's paystub, so they could be sure he was tithing correctly, and wanted part of his per diem pay-that was for motel and meals while out of town- as well. AND they couldn't wait until the following week- they expected Tim to WIRE the money. AHole that he is about stuff like that, DH said "Oh Hell No" and wouldn't take him to a Western Union office.
    oh good grief, stuff like that makes me vomit!
    But it's not unlike the preacher who tried to blackmail a member of his flock with stuff that was told to him in confidence, similar to confession!

    Then there's the preacher around here that tools around in a Porche with a license plate that reads "God 1". Seriously??? I think that's a bit over the top.
    I am sure he throws Sunday's collection in the air: Anything that stays up is God's...he keeps the rest....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  16. #16
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    Jan. 28, 2000
    Location
    Central Coast, CA
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    Default

    LOVED LOVED "Under the Banner of Heaven." Absolutely one of the best written and researched books I have ever read. I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to learn more about "bad" Mormons and the whole creepy underbelly that no-one really likes to talk about. I learned about the origins of a belief system which fosters some of the bizarre practices and offshoot beliefs that the mainstream Mormons like to deny exist. It's not a quick read but you won't be able to put it down.
    "Cats aren't clean; they're covered with cat spit."
    - John S Nichols (1745-1846,writer/printer)

    There's no reasoning with crazy people.



  17. #17
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    Sep. 13, 2002
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    Pacific Northwest
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    5,507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    Religion scares me..be it catholicism, parelli-ism...whatever...
    Me too! Or, more specifically, the business of religion is what I find scary (fits parelli too!).



  18. #18
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    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    9,650

    Default

    I just find it so ironic that a group who had the original unorthodox definition of marriage and still has men living with several wives even if it isn't legally recognized (which, btw, is completely fine with me if that is what they want to do; I think they SHOULD have the freedom to practice their religion however they want and if that involves consenting adults marrying 8 women to one man who am I to tell them any different)

    ...took to the streets to make sure gay marriage was outlawed in CA.

    Nope, no hypocrisy there.



  19. #19
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    Mar. 22, 2006
    Location
    Utah
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    178

    Default A few thoughts...

    Hey guys, I'm Mormon. Very Mormon. In fact, I work for the LDS church at headquarters. Just wanted to pop in and say a few things. Please don't flame me!

    1. Polygamy has been banned from the Mormon church since 1890. Other sects may still practice it, but they are NOT mormon.

    2. I was not born into a Mormon family. It is something I chose for myself. Members are asked to give 10% of their income in tithing. They are NEVER forced to give large sums of money above and beyond that for any reason. In fact, the church goes above and beyond to support those who are going through hard times with food and whatever else needed to sustain life.

    3. I have never been treated without upmost respect by church leaders. I have never been pressured to do anything, nor have I ever been pressured with an outrageous request. I live a truly happy life and would consider myself successful in many areas. I am truly free to pursue the things I love.

    I'm off to go ride but I'd hope you would all respect the religion of others and remember that there is always more than one side.

    Toodles.....
    Last edited by Puglet; Jul. 4, 2011 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Spelling



  20. #20
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Default Mormons are people

    and just like Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims (insert more belief systems) agnostics and athiests there are good people and bad people in the church.

    I've known both.

    One of my best friends and former coworker is a devout Mormon. I believe he is descended from BY through BY's first wife. He only mentioned that in passing, not something he plays up. He laughs about "You'll all be Mormons eventually"

    Then there is the ex Son in law, son of a bishop who was highly respected in the local community. I was sick when our older daughter married him.

    I don't think the LDS church (not the FLDS who is REALLY outthere) is any better or worse than any other religion.

    Around here we are blessed with www.all.org which IMHO is far more of a threat to ferrdom than the LDS church
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



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