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  1. #1
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    Default Who are the 'new' classic dressage sires?

    I began to wonder who the 'new' classic sires will be with the passing of so many great ones recently.

    (Weltmeyer, Wolkenstein II, Rhodiamont, and Espri... )

    Thoughts on who can/wiill become the new 'classics'?



  2. #2
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    My opinion only, but I would say Deniro, Don Schufro, Fuerst Heinrich (but already deceased so not sure he counts?), Londonderry.

    For younger but I think will be up there someday? Belissimo M, Hotline, Romanov, possibly Fidertanz.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  3. #3
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    Sandro Hit has made a huge impact -- would have to be considered as a giant. It will be interesting to see what impact Totilas will have.
    PennyG



  4. #4
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    Not sure I agree with all the stallions already listed. Several have no offspring at GP yet but are plenty old enough to have them.

    I'd put Don Schuffro at the top of the list.
    Breitling W is up there too.
    You can't forget Jazz, number 1 in the world for several years now.
    Come Back II is a relatively young stallion to be in the top 10 dressage sires with the FEI. He is a fabulous stallion who jumps as well as he moves.
    I'd also put some of the Trakehner boys in this list. Hohenstein, Silvermoon, Caprimond, Buddenbrock. I think Le Rouge will be a major producer of GP horses in the future too.



  5. #5
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    I'll just throw in my .02 cents worth -
    There are tiers to breeding for dressage now (IMHO). The in hand youngsters seem to have their own list of 'hot' sires. Then there are the sires that produce the FEI Young Horses. Then the stallions that make mid-level stars (3rd-PSG). Then there is a different list for siring PSG on up...

    It is very rare to see a horse that shines in sport from the beginning to the top even at a regional level, let alone national or international.

    *flame suit zipped up*

    With some of the stallions (DeNiro, Don Schufro for example) you get the ability but can fall a bit short on the 'looks' department...and vice versa with other stallions that put on 'the pretty factor' but don't seem to deliver Grand Prix offspring.

    So I guess what I'm trying to say is - what are you breeding for? Or who is your target market?

    ETA: I would not put Espri in the list of stallions for Dressage. JMHO.



  6. #6
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    2010 WBFSH dressage stallion rankings. Deceased stallions are in red text.

    First number is the ranking, followed by the stallion's name, then the total number of points won by his offspring, then the number of offspring contributing to the total points.

    1 JAZZ - 13045 - 17
    2 DONNERHALL - 9863 - 13
    3 ROHDIAMANT - 9386 - 10

    4 MICHELLINO - 8857 - 11
    5 DE NIRO - - 8724 - 10
    6 GRIBALDI - 8565- 8
    7 WELTMEYER - 7523 - 6

    8 FLORESTAN I - 6869 - 10
    9 WELT HIT II - 6148 - 7
    10 FERRO - 5920 - 7
    11 RUBINSTEIN I - 5837 - 7

    12 SOLOS CAREX - 5829 - 5
    13 COME BACK II - 5131 - 6
    14 CONTANGO - 4614 - 5

    I believe Florestan is still alive, but pensioned (no longer breeding).



  7. #7
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    And the WBFSH rankings for dressage horses reveal that the following stallions have at least four offspring in the top 469 places. The currently published rankings cover 10/1/2010 through 5/31/2011.

    Again, deceased stallions are in red text.

    Jazz – 19 offspring
    Florestan I – 15 offspring
    Michellino - 12 offspring
    Gribaldi – 10 offspring
    Ferro – 9 offspring
    Rohdiamant - 9 offspring
    De Niro – 7 offspring
    Donnerhall - 7 offspring
    Wolkenstein II - 6 offspring
    Flemmingh – 5 offspring
    Rubinstein I - 5 offspring
    Welt Hit II – 5 offspring
    Breitling – 4 offspring
    Come Back II – 4 offspring
    Don Schufro – 4 offspring
    Fidermark – 4 offspring
    Sandro Hit – 4 offspring

    I didn't notice any other stallions with more than 3 offspring on the ranking list (Weltmeyer only had 3 offspring on the list).
    Last edited by DownYonder; Jul. 2, 2011 at 05:01 PM. Reason: corrections



  8. #8
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    Looky there... Sandro Hit shows up with 4 offspring. What is the dam line on those 4?

    For that matter, would it be too hard to get the damline on all of the horses for each sire? ( that could be a new thread)

    I'm surpelrised Rhodiamont doesn't show up.



  9. #9
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    Down Yonder, do those sires represent grand prix offspring, or any FEI level, including young horse tests?
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by back in the saddle View Post
    Looky there... Sandro Hit shows up with 4 offspring. What is the dam line on those 4?

    For that matter, would it be too hard to get the damline on all of the horses for each sire? ( that could be a new thread)

    I'm surpelrised Rhodiamont doesn't show up.
    Oops, you are right about Rohdiamant! When I first started counting, I was going to ignore the recently deceased ones since your OP was about the NEW classic sires. I will revise my list to include Weltmeyer, Rohdiamant, etc.

    Damsires for the Sandro Hit offspring - Contender, Temple Wind, Donnerhall, Houston.

    I will look at damsires for the others later...



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by not again View Post
    Down Yonder, do those sires represent grand prix offspring, or any FEI level, including young horse tests?
    I'm not sure - will try to find that info later. Maybe someone else on this forum knows....



  12. #12
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    I'm curious as to whether a sire has to have multiple offspring on the list to be considered....
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by not again View Post
    I'm curious as to whether a sire has to have multiple offspring on the list to be considered....
    Quick answer before I head out to the barn - no, I saw some stallions represented by only one offspring on the dressage horse ranking list - e.g., Diamond Hit, Castro, Don Davidoff.

    http://www.wbfsh.org/files/Dressage_...ankings_03.pdf

    As for whether Y/H tests are considered when determining points - probably not, as Sandro Hit would have far more than just 4 offspring on the list.



  14. #14
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    I just revised my previous list to include Donnerhall and Rubinstein I - since we are including deceased stallions on the list.

    And of particular interest to NA breeders - Wolkentanz II is represented on the WBFSH list by two offspring.



  15. #15
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    Where's Hohenstein? I'm surprised he gets so many rave reviews but isn't included. ??? (I have another two weeks to figure out who gets to leave the semen tank which is why I'm interested)



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by back in the saddle View Post
    Where's Hohenstein? I'm surprised he gets so many rave reviews but isn't included. ??? (I have another two weeks to figure out who gets to leave the semen tank which is why I'm interested)
    There are only two Hohenstein offspring on the current WBFSH list. I was focusing my search on stallions who were represented by at least 4 offspring.

    And we have to take these stats with a grain of salt. For instance, some stallions may have been actively competing and not as available for breeding as others (case in point, Don Schufro, Michellino, Solos Carex, Breitling). Also consider the age of the stallions - the older sires have had many more foal crops than the youngsters. (I think I will go back and revise my list to add the YOB for each stallion.)



  17. #17
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    Good point.



  18. #18
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    Revised list to add the stallion's YOB. Again, these are the stallions with at least four offspring in the top 469 places of the WBFSH rankings for dressage horses. The currently published rankings cover 10/1/2010 through 5/31/2011.

    Deceased stallions are in red text.

    Jazz (1991) – 19 offspring
    Florestan I (1986) – 15 offspring
    Michellino (1991) - 12 offspring
    Gribaldi (1993) – 10 offspring
    Ferro (1987) – 9 offspring
    Rohdiamant (1990) - 9 offspring
    De Niro (1993) – 7 offspring
    Donnerhall (1981) - 7 offspring
    Wolkenstein II (1990) - 6 offspring
    Flemmingh (1987) – 5 offspring
    Rubinstein I (1986) - 5 offspring
    Welt Hit II (1992) – 5 offspring
    Breitling W (1991) – 4 offspring
    Come Back II (1992) – 4 offspring
    Don Schufro (1993) – 4 offspring
    Fidermark (1992) – 4 offspring
    Sandro Hit (1993) – 4 offspring

    Youngest stallions on my list are 18 y/o this year. So is it safe to say it takes about that long for a stallion to show up in the top ranks for producing internationally successful offspring?

    And I hadn’t realized this before – Gribaldi, De Niro, Don Schufro, and Sandro Hit were all born the same year. What a year that was for colts!



  19. #19
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    Thanks for putting these lists together!

    As far as Hohenstein.. he's also a 1991. Does lack of top horses mean he's a poor producer? Or is bad semen quality keeping the number of offspring down?

    As to the number of top quality stallions coming from 1991 birth years.... would there be any coorelation between the people involved with the approval process when the stallions were approved?
    Last edited by back in the saddle; Jul. 2, 2011 at 07:15 PM.



  20. #20
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    The human factor seems like it could be a factor in some of this.
    Is there a way to find which trainer/training barn were responsible for the horse that"makes it?" is there a top trainer/trainers responsible for more than one of the success stories?
    Peg
    Fleur de Lis Hanoverians



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