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  1. #1
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    Jan. 15, 2003
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    Some of you may have noticed my post on Giveaways about our Blue Heeler. Today was the final straw. I'll try to make this as brief as I can.

    We were heartbroken when our old heeler, Casey, disappeared. She worked with my husband and was a wonderful dog. Great with kids, other dogs, cats and knew her job around livestock. No problems with her at all. After she disappeared, my husband went right out and got another puppy, Daisy, from the same breeder. Unfortunately, his work was becoming more demanded and we moved several times over the next few years, making it difficult to work with Daisy.

    Daisy is now 5 years old. She is getting more aggressive with our other dogs-a female Golden Retriever and a female Lab/Heeler X- and the constant bickering, growling and occassional all-out fights are not only annoying, but dangerous to my children should they be caught in the middle. She HATES our cat and every time the cat gets out, we have to dash to restrain Daisy so she doesn't eat her. She chases the horses and cattle. She once attacked a neighbors goat but the goat was fortunately saved. We believe she killed a neighbors cat but don't know for sure. If someone had shot her at some point, I wouldn't have blamed them at all.

    Today, she killed my daughters baby goat. Yes, I saw it coming. For 2 years, since the first goat incident, I have suggested we make other arrangements for Daisy. He has no time to spend with her and anyone who knows Heelers knows a bored Heeler is NOT a good thing. I'm quite upset with my husband right now because every time I have suggested ANYTHING he gets mad that I "don't like his dog." It's not about "his" dog...it's about "the" dog. Mine just happen not to be killers, thats all. I suggested getting an animal behavioralist, a trainer, etc. He refused...said it was too expensive http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif Daisy drives me nuts when I'm feeding the horses. She responds when I tell her no but I feel like I have to constantly be watching out in case she sneaks up on me. She's almost gotten me into trouble more than once. Since the goats came last Friday, Daisy was supposed to be restrained unless supervised. This morning when I left, I didn't see her and assumed my husband had put her up (mistake #1). Nope. And now this afternoon the poor baby goat is dead. Daisy is now stuck in a small kennel in the barn where she will remain until a) we find her another home, b) she is euthanized or c) my husband builds a pen where she will spend the rest of her days.

    Considering the care of all the animals generally falls on me and I cannot be responsible for supervised turnout with another animal-my plate is completely full, and my husband does not "play" with the dogs or spend any quality time with Daisy, AND she will need a very special, carefully controlled situation as a new home, which option would you choose?

    I feel awful about euthanizing her but I just cannot imagine what that poor goat went through and cannot worry every day that someone will forget to put her up, etc. and it will happen again. I also am afraid she'll wind up in a situation where she'll be mistreated as a result of her "problem."

    The sad thing is that she is very sweet and not at all aggressive with humans. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2003
    Location
    Virginia
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    Default

    Some of you may have noticed my post on Giveaways about our Blue Heeler. Today was the final straw. I'll try to make this as brief as I can.

    We were heartbroken when our old heeler, Casey, disappeared. She worked with my husband and was a wonderful dog. Great with kids, other dogs, cats and knew her job around livestock. No problems with her at all. After she disappeared, my husband went right out and got another puppy, Daisy, from the same breeder. Unfortunately, his work was becoming more demanded and we moved several times over the next few years, making it difficult to work with Daisy.

    Daisy is now 5 years old. She is getting more aggressive with our other dogs-a female Golden Retriever and a female Lab/Heeler X- and the constant bickering, growling and occassional all-out fights are not only annoying, but dangerous to my children should they be caught in the middle. She HATES our cat and every time the cat gets out, we have to dash to restrain Daisy so she doesn't eat her. She chases the horses and cattle. She once attacked a neighbors goat but the goat was fortunately saved. We believe she killed a neighbors cat but don't know for sure. If someone had shot her at some point, I wouldn't have blamed them at all.

    Today, she killed my daughters baby goat. Yes, I saw it coming. For 2 years, since the first goat incident, I have suggested we make other arrangements for Daisy. He has no time to spend with her and anyone who knows Heelers knows a bored Heeler is NOT a good thing. I'm quite upset with my husband right now because every time I have suggested ANYTHING he gets mad that I "don't like his dog." It's not about "his" dog...it's about "the" dog. Mine just happen not to be killers, thats all. I suggested getting an animal behavioralist, a trainer, etc. He refused...said it was too expensive http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif Daisy drives me nuts when I'm feeding the horses. She responds when I tell her no but I feel like I have to constantly be watching out in case she sneaks up on me. She's almost gotten me into trouble more than once. Since the goats came last Friday, Daisy was supposed to be restrained unless supervised. This morning when I left, I didn't see her and assumed my husband had put her up (mistake #1). Nope. And now this afternoon the poor baby goat is dead. Daisy is now stuck in a small kennel in the barn where she will remain until a) we find her another home, b) she is euthanized or c) my husband builds a pen where she will spend the rest of her days.

    Considering the care of all the animals generally falls on me and I cannot be responsible for supervised turnout with another animal-my plate is completely full, and my husband does not "play" with the dogs or spend any quality time with Daisy, AND she will need a very special, carefully controlled situation as a new home, which option would you choose?

    I feel awful about euthanizing her but I just cannot imagine what that poor goat went through and cannot worry every day that someone will forget to put her up, etc. and it will happen again. I also am afraid she'll wind up in a situation where she'll be mistreated as a result of her "problem."

    The sad thing is that she is very sweet and not at all aggressive with humans. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2003
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    Virginia
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    Wait and SEE what kind of responses you get. You're thinkig WAY too far ahead with the "euthanization", it's a last resort. The animal is safe now, and you just wait. It's your husband's problem anyhow



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2002
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    PA, where the State motto is: "If it makes sense, we don't do it!".
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    A couple of years ago I wouldn't have said this, but if I were you I would make an appointment with the vet and have the dog euthanized. I believe animals deserve every chance but it sounds as if this dog cannot be trusted--if you could find someone responsible to take him I'd rather see that but it's hard enough (with this economy) to find homes for animals without issues. This dog sounds more like a liability than anything else. If you can find a rescue to take him (and most every breed has rescues--consult your vet) more power to you! This is not just your husband's problem and I applaud you for making yourself a part of the decision making, otherwise (knowing men) nothing will be done and the problem will just escalate.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif

    Best of luck.
    "Marriage is like a deck of cards--it starts with two hearts and a diamond and after a while you wish you had a club and a spade." ~seen on an anniversary card~



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2005
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    Gulfport, MS
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    I think that youor husband needs to train the dog or the dog needs a new home i dont think euthanization is the answer yet but i would definently consider a new home if she isnt mean to humans im sure someone would want to take her and if you cant wait for some one to come along give her to a rescue they'll take her train her and find her a perminent home.
    *No horses to Slaughter Clique, Rossbacher Gamaholics Clique, International Velvet Movie Lovers Clique, Member of the Deep South Support Group, Confused Member of the \"What is BOSS??\" Cult..er..CLIQUE, PROUDEST MEMBER of the Irrelevant Posters Cliqu



  6. #6
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    Dec. 27, 1999
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    Midland, NC, USA
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    Maybe I'm a real b**ch, but I don't think you're thinking too far ahead considering euthanization. The only other solution is a home where she is guaranteed never to come into contact with any other animals smaller than she is. How likely is that to happen? Or is it okay if the dog just murders cats and other housepets, as long as it never bites a human?

    I remember my dad having to kill a duck (a DUCK!) because it had gotten in the habit of murdering baby chicks on our farm. And a dog who fancied killing kittens.

    Jennifer



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2003
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    Virginia
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    nightsong-I know... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_confused.gif I'm just a worrier and well, it SHOULD be my husbands problem but in 12 years of marriage, my husbands problems always become mine to deal with. He lives in his own little world and tonight even tried to convince me that my horses killed the goat and Daisy was just "eating" him after he was already dead http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif Then he tried telling me the Golden did it. Nevermind the horses weren't even in the same field that the goat was in. And nevermind she was fiercely protecting the body when the kids got home, and that she growled at my daughter. She is now in a crate but he'll only feed and water her when he gets around to it. I can't let her go without and he KNOWS that. So I'll wind up taking care of her.

    That is my frustration and I suppose why I'm so anxious. I've tried to convince him for several years that something should be done to no avail. And if he'd done what he should have done (right down to my phone call to him Saturday when I saw that the dogs could get into the goat pen and requested him to fix it ASAP) many times over the years, we may never have gotten to this point.

    http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif I suppose I'm just venting. Such a shame. She's a beautiful dog.



  8. #8
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    Cherry and ThirdCharm-I agree. I just can't count on my husband to make an intelligent decision. And the thing is, euthanasia MAY be the most humane choice for her. If she goes to another home and kills something else, or God forbid, injures a child, she may wind up in much worse shape. At this point, I think her instincts have kicked in, she has tasted blood and she has lost all self-control. It MUST be a home without other animals and carefully controlled-that is the problem. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif I'm just so sad about the whole situation.

    I ran into my neighbor this afternoon and he asked me if I had a puppy. When I replied no, he said he had heard a weird howling and crying at our place this afternoon http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/cry.gif Poor baby goat. I just can't imagine what he went through. For an instant I wanted to kill Daisy myself but common sense told me she would have no idea why I was upset.

    The other option I'm considering is permanently kenneling her (with some supervised time out I'm sure). I'm just not sure thats fair as shes had free run for so long.



  9. #9
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    Nov. 13, 2004
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    City of delusion in the state of total denial
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    First of all, you've got my sympathy for all that you're going through, as well as the loss of the goat.

    I would keep the dog kenneled, or in a run, until you can get her either trained or adopted out. Sadly, I think that you do have to consider euthanization; my family has volunteered for Golden Retriever rescue organizations for several years, and these rescues are often understaffed, overworked, and under-contacted. You may have trouble finding Daisy a good home, even with the rescue's help. Have you tried talking to a veterinarian? Perhaps they know of someone who might be able to take Daisy in. Perhaps the breeder would.

    Euthanization would be my last resort... but if it comes down to it... put it this way. If Daisy started out being dangerous towards cats, has escalated to goats, and is already growling at your children... how old are your kids? I would watch them around Daisy as well. She sounds like a very territorial dog who has a very messed-up idea of what constitutes "her space." I imagine that she is the top dog around your house?

    And- please forgive me if I'm far off-target, but I'm just throwing things out here- it sounds as if what's going on with Daisy might be symptomatic of greater problems between you and your husband... have you tried getting counseling? Either way, having an intermediary might help to get your husband to see why you are having problems with the dog.

    Good luck to you.
    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep."
    - Harry Dresden

    Horse Isle 2: Legend of the Esrohs LifeCycle Breeding and competition MMORPG



  10. #10
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    Jan. 15, 2003
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    Renn/-Daisy is a Blue Heeler. One of my other dogs is a Golden. Blue Heelers are notorious for exactly the problems she has. Except that a responsible Heeler owner would have given her a "job" early on and worked with her. My husband did not do that. As I've said, a bored Heeler is a dangerous Heeler. Her problems are not that unusual. I have contacted a rescue and placed an ad but there appears to be many heelers needing a home...many without the problems Daisy has. I am NOT confident at this point.

    As far as hubby and me, we actually tolerate each other fairly well for the most part. We've had plenty of counseling and know I'll never change him (as he'll never change me). The decision was "Am I better off with or without him?" At this point, I am better off with him. I don't believe our marriage has anything to do with Daisy's problems. Our other dogs (one is 1/2 Heeler) do not have these issues.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2003
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    I definitely think that your dog is NOT "euthenization material."

    If Daisy is good with people (hasn't show aggression, growled at, or bitten), your dog has a good chance of being re-homed through a "Blue Heeler/Australian Cattle Dog Rescue" group.

    Be honest with Daisy's faults and problems--your dog is same-sex aggressive, has a high prey drive, not good with livestock, etc. Your dog is NOT a bad dog, but obviously needs someone who has time to work with her.

    These links came from the PUBLIC American Kennel Club Breed Rescue website. There may be others you can find online:

    http://www.acdca.org/committees/rescue.html

    The national coordinatior is Amy Berry, (760) 366-3593, (California). She can be reached at: lassic@telis.org--most likely, she has links to rescue groups near you.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Is returning Daisy to the breeder an option? If so - I would send her back tomorrow. Most responsible breeders will help in situations where their dogs are in situations that are unsuitable... as this one is. If the breeder can't or won't take her, I would consider having the dog put down.

    (I suppose when your husband says, "where's the dog?" you could say, "I dunno honey, I thought you put her in the kennel? Was she there when you fed/watered her?")

    If he is as lax about things as you say he is... it seems unlikely that he will look into it much further. If push comes to shove, I think you would be well within reason to say the dog posed a danger to your children and needed to be rehomed. ("You're right; I don't like your dog. It kills livestock and has threatened the kids.") Suppose your daughter had run over to her goat trying to protect it? The dog might very well have injured her - or worse. Fault or not, that is a chance I think you really shouldn't take.

    For what it's worth, this is the opinion of someone (me) who generally prefers dogs to kids - but I still believe that your (human) kids' safety is paramount.

    Good luck.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  13. #13
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    Nov. 4, 2003
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    Dallas, Georgia
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    As much as I love dogs, I would have to agree with you about euthanizing Daisy only because I've seen this before in other dogs: Once they get a "taste" for meat, they will continue in that path...killing whatever they can get to.
    If crated, tied, kennelled, etc., they only get more anxious wanting to escape to hunt, thereby exacerbating the dog's anxiety level.

    The fact that she growled at your children over the body is a frightening clue. If you crate/kennel/tie her up, her anxiety will only grow and she will become more aggressive.

    It is sad and heartbreaking, but when it comes down to the safety of children, they must take priority.

    ((((((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))))))))
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  14. #14
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    Jan. 15, 2003
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    The first call I made yesterday was to the breeder, who is also a vet. She offered to "ask around" but no mention was made of taking her back. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif She also felt that euthanasia was a viable alternative with Daisy's issues.

    I do agree, however, that in the RIGHT home, Daisy would do well. She is NOT hyperactive like some heelers, and with her sometimes bad hip, she is more of a "lap dog" a majority of the time. She would not be hard for an older person to deal with (not talking walker or wheelchair older person).

    I have emailed one heeler rescue and plan on contacting more this week.

    This morning, my husband "fixed" the goat pen and turned Daisy loose. When I commented on this, he said "Well, she can't get to the goats anymore." I informed him that she can NO LONGER EVER be loose unsupervised again. Period. So she is back in the kennel. If I catch him turning her out, I will haul her to the SPCA...something I REALLY don't want to do. He doesn't understand avoiding "first times". She has killed now and next time might not be a goat. Could be a neighbors pet, my next foal or one of the children http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif

    Its very strange, though. This dog is one that had puppies with my daughter in the box with her, helping her deliver. Not ONCE did she mind the children playing with the puppies and even tolerated strangers coming in to visit. I've always bragged on how good with humans she has been.



  15. #15
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    Jan. 15, 2003
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    Virginia
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    Chocomare-I agree on the kenneling. Which is why I prefer it not be an option. I don't think it is fair to her. If hubby could prove he'd take responsibility for her (i.e. take her to work as he did with the other heeler, spend time with her, etc.), kenneling part of the day wouldn't be terrible. I'm just afraid she'd spend 24/7 there and I simply don't have time. I enjoy spending what time I do have with my dogs and she only causes problems when out with them. Of course he swears my dogs cause the problem but right now I'm looking out my window at my two (sans Daisy) sleeping peacefully on the porch together. I haven't heard a growl all morning...something I normally wake up to when Daisy is out.



  16. #16
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    Jun. 27, 2002
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    Matthews, NC
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    As some have mentioned heelers need a job. They need to do that job until they are tired and have no desire to chase small things. They need structure and boundaries which needed to be set up early in her life. I'm not sure if this is an option but there may be a blue heeler rescue organization that would help you place or take the dog. My biggest fear if you have small kids around she may eventially take to chasing them.

    Also another thought, have you had her looked at by the vet? If this problem, has just started she may have a physical problem.

    Good luck this is not an easy situation for all involved.



  17. #17
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    Jul. 11, 2004
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    Kill the dog, right now!

    She attacked and killed a goat.
    She attacked a neighbors goat.
    She will kill the cat if she can.
    She goes after the horse.

    What else do you need to see before you admit she is dangerous?

    Kill her before she kills your kid next time.

    Too many nice safe and friendly dogs are put to sleep to keep a dangerous animal who has shown they will kill if given the opportunity. This is not a "fur person", it's a dangerous dog.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  18. #18
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    Jan. 15, 2003
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    Virginia
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    Um, Trakehner. I DID admit she was dangerous. Very dangerous. Which is why she is locked up tight in a kennel.

    I'm more or less seeking support making a tough decision because I DON'T hate the dog. As a matter of fact, I'm quite attached to her and she is very likeable. I also felt like killing her yesterday because I was so angry at her. She would have had NO CLUE why I was upset. She is an animal. WE did her wrong by not providing her with the lifestyle she needed to remain a respectable citizen of the dog community. Now I'm trying to make a good, fair, HUMANE decision for her.

    Right now, she is of no threat to anyone. My husband and I are the only ones handling her until we make a decision.

    And I know she's not a "fur person." Don't assume I'm one of "those" who puts an animals life above a human. I've gotten many respectful but differing opinions on this matter and I'm grateful for each of them. I'm not, however, in any mood to be insulted so back off.



  19. #19
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    Feb. 2, 2001
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    Toronto, Ontario
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    Meant in the kindest possible way, put the dog down. At this point, it is likely the kindest thing that you could do.

    A dog that has become aggressive has reverted to its wilder nature and there is rarely any coming back from that. This is a dog that will have to be closely confined, watched and have retricted interaction only with people informed of and willing to take the risk. Realistically, this is the best possible outcome and not a pleasant sounding one at that.

    A humane death surrounded by those who care for her is not the worst possible option. It may well be the kindest under the circumstances. Certainly it is kinder than isolation from interaction 'her' people, the worst kind of life for a pack creature.

    For love of the dog, love of your children and of your fellow man, please put the dog down.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
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    Midland, NC, USA
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    You say she is no danger at present since you and your husband are the only ones handling her..... but, from everything else that has been said, it doesn't sound like he is responsible enough to ensure that she is not, in fact, a danger.

    The dog doesn't have to know why you are upset to be killed. A dog lacks a conscience and is just acting on its predatory nature, basically a sociopathic killer. If its name were Manson or Bundy or Dahmer one would not have any qualms.

    Jennifer



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