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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
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    Midwest
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    Default Am I dense? Is this just fine? (Naming question)

    This is a discussion on use of breeders' prefixes and suffixes on home-bred horses.

    I've seen one or two small breeders who have been using what I believe are the suffixes of other breeders when naming their foals. The examples in question are "Hit" "Z" and "Tyme."

    Wouldn't adding "Hit" to the end of your foal's name be along the same lines as adding "ISF" or "Hilltop" to the end of your foal's name? Sandro Hit and Diamond Hit were both out of the same mare, I believe bred by the same person (or at least the Hit was to designate they were brothers). "Z" is the Zangersheide suffix, and I would think it would also be wrong to name your foal from a Zangersheide stallion "Randomname Z" would it not?

    I get that people want to indicate the bloodlines in the foal's name, but it seems like people need to do some more research on how they are naming their foals. If they are using those terms, they are effectively stealing another breeder's brand. Seeing names like that makes me wonder what, if anything, the breeder actually knows about the bloodlines they are using as this strikes me as kind of a major faux pas.

    If I am incorrect in this understanding, please correct me, because this has been annoying me to no end.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    Another one being used frequently, and incorrectly, is the "K" on Popeye K babies. The K is actually the suffix of Ashland Farm in Ontario, Canada and is applied to their foals...but many of the Mare Owners who have bred to Popeye K have used the "K" somewhere in the name of the foals. I chalk it up to people not understanding the history of a name or what a farm prefix is and have done it unknowingly.

    What's even worse is someone taking a horse with a registered name and prefix, removing the breeders prefix and inserting their own in it's place. This happened to us a couple of years ago with a hunter pony we bred, and I think it's beyond being dishonest! A prefix denotes who bred the horse. I can understand some horse show owners who remove the prefix entirely, but to remove it and then put your own farm prefix in it's place is just unethical!
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
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    An American Living In Ireland
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    Default

    As far as Zangersheide is concerned, it's the rules in registering your baby with Z book. The first letter is the first letter of the Stallion followed by Z. So if registering a Lux Z baby with Z book, the name you choose starts with L and ends in Z.

    So on that one, nobody is stealing anything.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  4. #4
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    Aug. 11, 2003
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    Midwest
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    916

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
    As far as Zangersheide is concerned, it's the rules in registering your baby with Z book. The first letter is the first letter of the Stallion followed by Z. So if registering a Lux Z baby with Z book, the name you choose starts with L and ends in Z.

    So on that one, nobody is stealing anything.

    Terri
    But if it's just an Oldenburg from a Zangersheide stallion and NOT in the Z book, it should not have the Z, right?



  5. #5
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    Apr. 4, 2006
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    An American Living In Ireland
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    Default

    Yes, that is correct. I would just assume when people register horses they follow rules of the registries but then I remembered this would be America we're talking about in which case so many people think it's stupid to register horses. Not the good breeders on here by the way!

    I know you can have a pre-fix here with the Irish Horse Board for a fee and it has to be approved. I don't know if it's the same for all Euro registers.

    I'm not a big fan of Pre-Fixes. I don't mind simple letters at the end of names so much and I do understand the reasoning, but more people would be inclined to keep names if for not so many add ons. I guess it could be sour grapes that my initials TB would confuse people between Thoroughbreds and a really nasty lung disease! LOL!

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
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    8,280

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
    Yes, that is correct. I would just assume when people register horses they follow rules of the registries but then I remembered this would be America we're talking about in which case so many people think it's stupid to register horses. Not the good breeders on here by the way!

    I know you can have a pre-fix here with the Irish Horse Board for a fee and it has to be approved. I don't know if it's the same for all Euro registers.

    I'm not a big fan of Pre-Fixes. I don't mind simple letters at the end of names so much and I do understand the reasoning, but more people would be inclined to keep names if for not so many add ons. I guess it could be sour grapes that my initials TB would confuse people between Thoroughbreds and a really nasty lung disease! LOL!

    Terri
    So funny! I use MLW (my initials), because HAF sounds half-a$$ed or al-way or something of the like. Last year, to my great surprise I found someone else registering Hanoverians with MLW. I had thought that MLW was highly unlikely to be popular. Their moniker stands for Maple Lane Warmbloods (or something like that). I guess it is perfectly fair. Ce la vie.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
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    9,319

    Default

    I believe that Sandro Hit, Diamond Hit, and Royal Hit were named by Paul Schockemoehle and his general manager, Joseph Klaphake - not by their breeder. Furthermore, there were already other stallions around named "Hit", who were bred by a different breeder entirely, and they were not owned by Paul Schockemoehle. The Welt Hit stallions come to mind - and Welt Hit I O was born two years before Sandro Hit. So, no, I don't think Gabriel Harder-Brune has a lock on "Hit".

    Come to think of it, Zangersheide adds a "Z" to the names of horses it purchases (or leases) - not just horses it breeds. That is how Ramiro became known as Ramiro Z (or G Ramiro Z - the Dutch added the "G").

    I don't mind suffixes - I can usually sort them out. But prefixes drive me nuts because it makes tracking bloodlines more difficult. Not only do some people think they are supposed to use the first letter of the prefix when naming their foals, but they sometimes use the prefix when registering with USEF/USDF, and that causes problems also. For instances, I was recently trying to look up performance info on the USEF site for offspring of Tiamo Trocadero, and had to do a sire search under both "Tiamo Trocadero" (his official registered name), and "Reuters Tiamo Trocadero".



  8. #8

    Default

    I don't mind suffixes - I can usually sort them out. But prefixes drive me nuts because it makes tracking bloodlines more difficult. Not only do some people think they are supposed to use the first letter of the prefix when naming their foals, but they sometimes use the prefix when registering with USEF/USDF, and that causes problems also. For instances, I was recently trying to look up performance info on the USEF site for offspring of Tiamo Trocadero, and had to do a sire search under both "Tiamo Trocadero" (his official registered name), and "Reuters Tiamo Trocadero".
    I agree with you 100% and I'm actually surprised the breed associations haven't stopped this.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
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    9,319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by back in the saddle View Post
    I agree with you 100% and I'm actually surprised the breed associations haven't stopped this.
    I don't believe that most of the Euro-type WB registries allow it. IOW, the foal's registered name follows the registry's official naming conventions. (One exception is Danish WB, where it seems to be very common to add the breeder's or owner's prefix to the horse's name.)

    The problem arises when the horse is registered with USEF/USDF with the prefix, or becomes well-known based on its prefixed name. An example is Landtinus, who is known to most folks as Solos Landtinus because he was owned by the Linnets of the Solos stud farm in Denmark. Oldenburg naming standards require that his colt foals receive names starting with "L", yet some people seem to think the names should start with "S". It can get confusing sometimes...



  10. #10
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    Aug. 19, 2003
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    Citra, Fl, USA
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    Default

    I hate prefixes and I agree it is really tacky when the person bought the horse and then slaps on thier prefix. Yuck! You are also really right that it confuses the heck out of newby breeders. Really shows thier lack of research.
    Whispered Wish Weser-Ems: Breeding quality German Riding Ponies!
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  11. #11
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    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Collingwood,ON
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    Default

    Agree with DownYonder. "hit" is not a breeder's suffix. I do know what you mean though. It would be really weird if I put "ISF" at the end of one of my horse's names. What really bugs me is when people purchase a horse and then add their suffix/prefix to it. It's like they are trying to get credit for a horse they didn't breed.
    I think that "tyme" is the suffix of GoodTyme stables. I think they rename all of their sales horse's to include the name "tyme" even though they did not breed the horse.



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