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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2003
    Location
    Wet and Windy Washington
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    3,747

    Default Feed for hard keeper broodie

    Hoping *fingers crossed* that my mare will get in foal this month.

    If she does I would love to know the best feed for her as she is an incredibly hard keeper (teeth/fecal etc all done).

    She currently get Omelene 200/BOSS/Oil/Beet/flax and is on pasture (due to the grass she no longer is interested in hay/alfalfa).

    Can I feed her a mare/foal feed while she's pregnant and is this a higher calorie feed?

    Thanks
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2010
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
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    1,696



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2008
    Location
    Beautiful Western Washington
    Posts
    1,342

    Default

    If you are on Omelene you can bump her to the 300, or the Ultium Growth ( though that is a bit pricey my vet said its one of the best on the market). It should keep the weight on her. I have one hard keeper too and she is on a mix similar to yours.. I do have to raise the lbs when she is nursing - thats when it really hits.
    www.windhorsefrm.org and on Facebook too!
    Where mares rule and Basset Hounds drool!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Cairo, Georgia
    Posts
    2,395

    Default

    I swear by Buckeye Grow-n-Win & for more calories I add Nutrena Empower with 22% fat. Can feed so much less feed with the nutrients & calories a broodie needs.
    Producing horses with gentle minds & brilliant movement!
    www.whitfieldfarm.shutterfly.com



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    35,213

    Default

    Grow-n-Win is a ration balancer and can only be fed at minimal amounts. You're feeding max 5lb of it for a 1300lb horse. If you need to feed substantially more calories, it can get very $$$ if, for example, you're also having to feed another 10,000 calories or so. It's not that that ISN'T an option, just that it can get voluminous and pricey.

    If you find you have to feed huge numbers of calories, then you're better off with a growth-type feed, where you can feed more like 10lb, with most of those feeds containing about 50% more calories than many ration balancers.

    I *do not* like the Buckeye Growth products though. The pelleted is 26% NSC, the textured is 28%. I don't feel that's safe, especially if you're feeding in the 10lb range. The Growth Sweet doesn't have the NSC listed, but given the ingredients I suspect it's well into the 30's. Much too high.

    Even Omelene 300 is over 30% IIRC

    Triple Crown Growth is 13% NSC - MUCH more appropriate for horses. I don't know the NSC of the Ultium Growth
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2009
    Location
    Thurmond, NC
    Posts
    404

    Default

    We have several very hard keepers and have had good luck keeping weight on with Ultium Growth.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2005
    Posts
    1,726

    Default MY 22 y/o stallion....

    Wow, I can't believe he is 22. He was loosing weight this year in the heat even with him in under fans during the day, it has been routinely 100+ for the last 10-15 days. He HATES Senior feeds, HATES them. So he is eating Omolene 200 and I have added stabilized Rice Bran, it is working very well. Maybe try that.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 17, 2008
    Posts
    609

    Default

    I have been feeding my Tb broodmare a combo of plain soaked beetpulp Progressive Nutrtition's Pro Advantage Grass Diet Balancer(a rb for her nutritional needs) and Progressive Nutrtition's Envision Classic-an extruded fat supplement for extra calories...and she not only looks fantastic she took on her first breeding last year and it was her first time!

    If you cant get Progressive Nutrtion...Buckeye Gro N Win is very comparible in quality/price along w/ their Ultimate Finish



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2002
    Location
    Kent,WA USA
    Posts
    1,117

    Default

    After a lengthy chat with the nutrition rep at Purina we switched our 20yo TB with a big foal to Ultium Growth. So far I'm super happy with it. She'd been picking up weight on the "everything and the kitchen sink" approach to feeding but we didn't like not knowing how that worked out nutritionally...so Ultium has been really great and both mare and baby look great. For extra calories you can also add Amplify pellets (I think it's 30% fat). The Ultium is expensive but I'm happy that mare is looking better than for her last foal even at her somewhat advanced age!
    Good luck!!!
    Andrea
    Andrea Clibborn-Anderson
    www.crestlinefarm.com
    Home of Pinto Dutch Warmblood Palladio



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2004
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    Still here ~ not yet there
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    Default

    Is there any reason one can't just make up the extra calories with stuff like sweet feed, beet pulp and oil?

    Does one have to buy expensive, "designer" feeds?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2004
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    1,231

    Default

    I love Triple Crown Growth for broodmares.. It's low starch, high fat, high fiber and the horses love it. Not sure if TC is where you are though?



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    35,213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzteke View Post
    Is there any reason one can't just make up the extra calories with stuff like sweet feed, beet pulp and oil?

    Does one have to buy expensive, "designer" feeds?
    Sweet feed is too high in sugars - counterproductive to good weight gain

    For some horses adding beet pulp is a viable option. But it's voluminous and can't always be eaten in a short enough time if you're adding more than a couple of pounds of it.

    Oil can be useful but IME it should only be used when calories and nutrition are already maxed out in terms of what the horse will eat and needs, respectively.

    Also, by the time you add several pounds of beet pulp and/or alfalfa pellets and a cup or two of oil or rice bran, it can all end up costing more than a feed designed to be quite complete.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Rawley Springs, Virginia
    Posts
    2,466

    Default

    I am not knocking the OP but I am always curious why we breed the hard keepers. Breeding soundness and weight maintenance seem like good things to produce so using individuals that excel in these areas seem to make sense. I wouldn't want to produce another offspring that had the same issues. Any thoughts on this? Also sometimes poor weight correlates with ulcers?

    I think using the best quality hay you can find and feeding it free choice can make the biggest difference in condition. I have a friend that feeds her TB mares very very little grain but they get good hay and although the mares seem typical in their body type for TBs they carry their weight very well.
    Chris
    Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
    WWSD? (what would Suerte do?)



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2004
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    Still here ~ not yet there
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Sweet feed is too high in sugars - counterproductive to good weight gain

    Oil can be useful but IME it should only be used when calories and nutrition are already maxed out in terms of what the horse will eat and needs, respectively.

    Also, by the time you add several pounds of beet pulp and/or alfalfa pellets and a cup or two of oil or rice bran, it can all end up costing more than a feed designed to be quite complete.
    Actually, I've done the math and it NEVER costs more. Pound per pound it's usually far cheaper to "do your own." Is it more of a hassle? Yes. But it IS cheaper.

    Seriously, if you look at the ingredients for most of these feeds it's oats, beet pulp and fat with vit/min. And unless a horse reacts badly to "sugar" (which I've found very few horses really do), you can use a "dry" COB.

    Honestly, hard working horses have been fed oats, corn, barley & fat and done great for centuries. My grandfather fed his plow mules nothing but straight corn and hay all their lives. They worked hard (400 acres farm) and lived till they were in their 30's.

    If you like the convenience, great! But don't think you MUST feed these products to get a horse healthy or to gain weight.

    And why wait to add fat? That's what is in most of these products anyway. Just they are getting the fat from rice bran (30% fat max), whereas oil is 100% fat.

    So you have already tripled the fat calories just by using oil.

    As for sugar being "counter productive to good weight gain" -- well, ask any compulsive donut eater what part sugar had in their weight gain! Keep in mind molasses is the "sugar" added to COB and it's not without some nutritional value. It's added to increase palatibility and decrease dust. So again, you can use dry COB.

    I use a Puriena product called Country Acres Sweet Feed. It has vit/mins already, is partly pelleted, and costs about $12 per 50lbs (and I add BP. fat & Oats).

    Sorry, I will never believe that oats, corn, barley are bad for horses, since it's been working on horses who worked MUCH harder than 90% of those today do, and kept them going.

    Advertising folks....so much is just advertising....



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,764

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladybug Hill View Post
    I am not knocking the OP but I am always curious why we breed the hard keepers. Breeding soundness and weight maintenance seem like good things to produce so using individuals that excel in these areas seem to make sense. I wouldn't want to produce another offspring that had the same issues. Any thoughts on this? Also sometimes poor weight correlates with ulcers?

    I think using the best quality hay you can find and feeding it free choice can make the biggest difference in condition. I have a friend that feeds her TB mares very very little grain but they get good hay and although the mares seem typical in their body type for TBs they carry their weight very well.
    I have a pasture full of air ferns. I wish I had some "hard keeper" genes. Air ferns are a real pain in the butt, you look at them funny and they gain weight. I have large pastures and they live outside so it is a big issue making sure they get all the nutrition without getting that hippopotamus figure. I have a draft cross that kills me, and the chubby SOB is the hungriest horse alive. Bring on the hard keeper...



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    35,213

    Default

    IT depends on what your options are as to whether it costs more to do your own. If I wanted to do a ration balancer plus extra calories for my mare when she was heavily pregnant and during early nursing, it WAS more to feed 5lb of Progressives Grass Advantage and another 10,000 calories split among beet pulp and alfalfa pellets, than it would have been to feed 10lb of Triple Crown Growth.

    But, she wouldn't eat 10lb Growth, so I ended up doing a half ration of both products, which was more $$ than doing all Growth. I still really should have fed another few thousand calories but there's only so much volume she'll eat and only so many times a day I could feed her

    And she's really not even a hard keeper, requiring just a vit/min supplement and 23 hours of grass a day on a regular, non-pregnancy basis, and not in work.

    There is so much research now that shows diets high in sugar increase the odds of metabolic issues developing later in life. Just like in people. And yes, there are studies that show high sugar meals can cause a horse to eat less forage and lose weight. In too many cases this leads to to more sugary feed to get weight on.

    Horses in the past could use high NSC diets because they worked many hours a day. Most horses now don't work hard enough. Same with people - diets that were "fine" in the past were ok because those people did physical work for many hours a day.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2002
    Location
    Culpeper, VA
    Posts
    1,960

    Default

    If you can get McCauleys- the Top Breeder is amazing. You can order the Rice Bran Oil- very useful and super tasty.
    Www.mccauleybros.com



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2007
    Location
    Cloverdale, Ca.
    Posts
    1,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzteke View Post
    Is there any reason one can't just make up the extra calories with stuff like sweet feed, beet pulp and oil?

    Does one have to buy expensive, "designer" feeds?
    When my old nursing broodies start losing weight I up the beet pulp ( very wet) and unstabalized rice bran and sometimes even add some corn oil.

    I love to use wet (sloppy wet) beet pulp in the Summer when it's hot. It helps get extra fluids and calories in them.

    often I'll add a big scoop of 300 Omalene too. But I just love beet pulp and rice bran. That always does the trick for my hard keepers. My big mares are simply not able to get enough calories from just hay. I do want to mention that my old broodies have grass or grass hay in front of them 24/7 or they drop really quick. Preferably with a little alfalfa in there. They're just huge eaters while nursing.
    Chris Misita
    www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
    To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
    Victor Hugo



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