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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2002
    Location
    Prospect, ME
    Posts
    4,565

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    I have a friend who is going through one of the most unbelieveable situations I've heard of in awhile:
    She has been looking for a new horse, and found the PERFECT one online last week - nice quiet gelding, much better suited to her then the young (but lovely) OTTB mare she has at the moment. The horse, a TB gelding, was listed for $15,000 - short stirrup packer, 9 years old.
    Emailed the seller, and asked if they would be interested in taking the mare in partial trade. The SELLER responded with an offer of $7500 cash, and the mare ($2500 for her) for a total of $10,000 for the gelding. (a quote in one email is "so this is a contract that locks us in to $10,000 for said horse)
    Found it a bit strange that as an equine appraiser (or so they say) that they would drop the price so quickly, but he still sounds perfect. The horse is in NY, buyer in NH, so she arranges for a vet in NY to do the prepurchase - he knows the horse has to be quiet, says he'll have a kid sit on it while he's there to make sure, etc.
    It is arranged that the pre-purchase will be done friday, and as long as the horse passes, he'll be picked up that saturday, delivering the mare in the process. Friday comes and word comes back that he passed the vet with flying colors. Great, we'll pick him up the next day.
    Quarter to midnight rolls around on Friday, and an email is sent by the seller: "our kids are so upset about selling the horse, we can't stand to let him go now..so sorry, we'll send money for the vet check." Ok, that's bad. WELL funny thing, BEFORE said email was sent, the farm website had been updated: The horse is now $18,000 and LISTED WITH CLEAN X-RAYS!!!!! The sellers are still swearing up and down that it's just because of the kids. My feeling is they found out that the horse was going to pass the vet (on my friend's dollar), and have decided to get more money for him. This person is supposedly a certified equine appraiser, and it seems totally unprofessional to me!
    Anyone else have thoughts? It's so hard to believe that there are people out there who think they can get away with stuff like this.... *sigh**grr*
    -Jessica



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2002
    Location
    Prospect, ME
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    I have a friend who is going through one of the most unbelieveable situations I've heard of in awhile:
    She has been looking for a new horse, and found the PERFECT one online last week - nice quiet gelding, much better suited to her then the young (but lovely) OTTB mare she has at the moment. The horse, a TB gelding, was listed for $15,000 - short stirrup packer, 9 years old.
    Emailed the seller, and asked if they would be interested in taking the mare in partial trade. The SELLER responded with an offer of $7500 cash, and the mare ($2500 for her) for a total of $10,000 for the gelding. (a quote in one email is "so this is a contract that locks us in to $10,000 for said horse)
    Found it a bit strange that as an equine appraiser (or so they say) that they would drop the price so quickly, but he still sounds perfect. The horse is in NY, buyer in NH, so she arranges for a vet in NY to do the prepurchase - he knows the horse has to be quiet, says he'll have a kid sit on it while he's there to make sure, etc.
    It is arranged that the pre-purchase will be done friday, and as long as the horse passes, he'll be picked up that saturday, delivering the mare in the process. Friday comes and word comes back that he passed the vet with flying colors. Great, we'll pick him up the next day.
    Quarter to midnight rolls around on Friday, and an email is sent by the seller: "our kids are so upset about selling the horse, we can't stand to let him go now..so sorry, we'll send money for the vet check." Ok, that's bad. WELL funny thing, BEFORE said email was sent, the farm website had been updated: The horse is now $18,000 and LISTED WITH CLEAN X-RAYS!!!!! The sellers are still swearing up and down that it's just because of the kids. My feeling is they found out that the horse was going to pass the vet (on my friend's dollar), and have decided to get more money for him. This person is supposedly a certified equine appraiser, and it seems totally unprofessional to me!
    Anyone else have thoughts? It's so hard to believe that there are people out there who think they can get away with stuff like this.... *sigh**grr*
    -Jessica



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2003
    Location
    Eastern Pacific coast
    Posts
    3,579

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    Sounds a bit irritating to me ! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...n_rolleyes.gif

    Forget about them and find something else. Chances are your friend will find out someday that it was a blessing that the deal didn't work out. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/yes.gif
    -Amor vincit omnia-



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,474

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    Lets hope immensely that the vet kept the x-rays as they're the property of the buyer and not the seller...so I'm flumaxed as to how the seller can offer "clean x-rays" without a set for themselves to back the claim up.
    Maybe have another friend e-mail/call about the horse and see if the sellers are still marketing it. If so...then re-contact the seller and send along a print-out of the confirming e-mail contract to see if they'll honor the sale. Sometimes sending something with legal letterhead has a bit more impact. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 1999
    Location
    Virginia and North Carolina, Parrothead Clique!
    Posts
    4,853

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    Irritating, but until money changes hands, the horse wasn't sold in the first place.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2002
    Posts
    2,841

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    People will do just about ANYTHING these days. Move on. Find an honest seller. There are plenty of horses out there.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    725

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    Even if the vet keeps the original x-rays the sellers can purchase copies....so that part isn't out of the question.

    Sounds shady, and wrong, and it is no wonder our industry has such a bad rep. Makes me sad. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/cry.gif
    Lesley M. Jenks
    Finally Farm ~ Located at Yates Mill Farm
    Raleigh, NC
    www.finallyfarmnc.com



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,786

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    No, not without permission from the person who actually paid for the x-rays. The sellers can ask the vet for copies, but cannot receive them without prior permission from the person who paid for them - the prospective buyer.

    Been here, done this. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2002
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    1,058

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    OMG!!! Talk about snakes in the grass...I'd be furious. Sadly though, there isn't too much they can do http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_frown.gif I would think that as long as the buyers don't receive reimbursement for the vet check, they own the x-rays and I would request the original, and only, set of them. That way the sellers have nothing to show as far as films go. Also, I'd make sure the vet it aware on how he was merely a pawn in this game of the seller.
    *Ride and let ride...*



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,474

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    My vet also will not give out copies or even discuss any treatments or x-rays that I've paid for without my permission in writing. He even insists on it in writing, won't do it on verbal.
    Yankeeturnedhillbilly...I'm assuming from the sound of your name you left new england for the south? Hubby and I are thinking about an eventual move to the more southern regions of this country after he retires so we can afford more acreage...how's the change been for you? My hubby is wound tight...very Yankee and I'm wondering if he'll self destruct further south. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif
    Sorry to hijack the thread...if you don't mind discussing it please PM me? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
    Posts
    11,437

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    MistyBlue, I would venture to say it will depend on where in the south you decide to move. I lived in the Atlanta area for ten years before moving back to the northeast last year. I prefer the south and so Mr Lucassb and I are planning to buy property so we can move south once my stepson goes off to college. However, I am being *very* selective about where we are looking because Mr L has never lived outside the northeast and would never be happy in a totally rural area. Areas like Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, etc offer a good balance, IMO. Lots of southern charm, great weather, affordable living - but not some of the more, let's say, parochial behavior. As you get to the more rural areas, there are often aspects of "southern culture" that are not so appealing (again, IMO.)

    If you want more info you are welcome to PM me.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    12,546

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dusty:
    I would think that as long as the buyers don't receive reimbursement for the vet check, they own the x-rays and I would request the original, and only, set of them. That way the sellers have nothing to show as far as films go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    One more time...
    You, as client, DO NOT OWN ORIGINAL RADIOGRAPHS.
    You have paid for and received a service--radiography. You are entitled to interpretation, and, for a fee, copies of the originals, which are part of the medical record, and the legal property of the veterinary practice.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,786

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    Absolutely. The prospective buyer is the only one with access to these radiographs, other than the vet. The seller would have to get the prospective buyer's permission to disclose/send copies of said radiographs to anyone else, and pay for the privilege. Heck, I've had a PPE done and not been able to get copies of the radiographs I paid for - can't imagine that anyone else would have easier access than the person who commissioned the work to be done in the first place. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2002
    Location
    Prospect, ME
    Posts
    4,565

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    I'm not sure if they are planning to use the x-rays that my friend paid for, or just tell prospective buyers that when THEY pay for a pre-purchase, the x-rays will be clean. The seller recomended the vet, which is a bit of a red flag to me..maybe they have something worked out?

    The part that really pisses me off is that they are still swearing up and down that it's because of the kids!!!!! Haven't even addressed the fact that they changed the price and the ad for the horse BEFORE contacting my friend to tell her they changed their minds (and we have a printed copy of the ad before they changed it...). I would be more likely to expect this kind of thing from a backyard owner...not one who has their own farm, and advertise themselves as an equine appraiser...hardly a way to create a professional image!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif
    -Jessica



  15. #15
    Join Date
    May. 31, 2003
    Posts
    846

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    I think I know what horse you are referring to. Pass on him; you're better off dealing with people you can trust and who act professionally.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    725

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ghazzu:

    One more time...
    You, as client, DO NOT OWN ORIGINAL RADIOGRAPHS.
    You have paid for and received a service--radiography. You are entitled to interpretation, and, for a fee, copies of the originals, which are part of the medical record, and the legal property of the veterinary practice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Glad I read through the posts, I was about to say the same thing. Although I think I might interpret this differently than ESG did. I read this to mean that the x-rays belong to the VET, not anyone else...and the vet can do whatever he wants with the X-rays, including sell copies to the seller.
    Lesley M. Jenks
    Finally Farm ~ Located at Yates Mill Farm
    Raleigh, NC
    www.finallyfarmnc.com



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,786

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    No, the vet cannot sell x-rays you paid for to someone else, without your permission. The vet owns the image, but the image was taken and paid for at your behest. It's much the same as with human medical records; the vet has no right to disclose your findings to anyone without your permission. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 6, 2002
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    1,228

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    Did you friend ever go and try the horse? Was this vet selected by your friend or the seller?



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,055

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    No offense but this is a good lesson your friend is learning the hard way.

    Nothing was signed and no money changed hands so there was no contract. The BUYER needs to select the vet, not those with a financial interest in the PPEs outcome.

    The friend is lucky she didn't close on the deal and this unseen, out of state horse turn out to be unsafe and unhealthy.

    The "seller" just sounds like a deadbeat to me.

    Or a liar.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2002
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    1,058

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    Hmmm, maybe different states have different rules on who owns x-ray films. I have in my possession a complete set of films on an ottb I had a prepurchase done on. All I did was call the vet and ask if they would send me the films since I was moving and wanted the originals to follow me. They sent them, stamped original, with no questions asked.

    Like I mentioned, this is in IL and I'm sure each state has its own governing body that sets the standards and practices for their professionals.
    *Ride and let ride...*



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