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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2004
    Location
    Elkton
    Posts
    4,405

    Default Is it wrong to just move up?

    I am blessed with a jumping machine of a horse. If I steer he won't stop at anything, if I get him in front of my leg can clear everything (that we've jumped so far!).

    However.. the juicy pony is not a dressage superstar.

    We have been in last place after dressage for almost all of our events. Surprisingly enough the one event we WEREN'T in last place for was our first rec. HT at Flora Lea where we were awesome (still 3rd to last, but awesome for us!)

    We're schooling novice and training (he's a solid 3"3 stadium jumper and we've done complete novice x-country with training options). He loves to jump and so do I.

    My question is.. would it be wrong to just move up to Novice? I feel like he's getting so bored with Beg Novice and if we're going to be in last place in Beg Novice we might as well be in last place in Novice but with funner jumps.

    or... should I really buckle down, take lots of lessons and improve my dressage before I move up.

    Thoughts?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Location
    Guthrie, OK
    Posts
    1,589

    Default

    As I have been told time and time again....
    Jumping is just dressage with some speed bumps thrown in.
    IMHO, I would keep working to get your dressage better. It is the basics, remember?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 26, 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts
    599

    Default

    My 2 cents is that if you're comfortable doing novice to just move up. Talk to your trainer make some suitable goals and go for it. Keep working hard on your flat work.

    I've skipped BN on several horses because they were brave over fences.

    Novice is still the basics.
    Proud former owner of a Wee Dee Trrr
    Proud half-owner of a Picasso Pony



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2004
    Posts
    2,612

    Default

    I have moved up many times on horses that were not competitive in the dressage yet who were ready in the jumping. The N dressage is virtually the same as BN, so if that makes your overall event mileage more useful and more of a learning experience I'd move up.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    12,374

    Default

    I could careless about my dressage score or my placing.

    Keep working on dressage...but if your jumping is safe and your horse is rideable in the jumping phases....then DO NOT let your placings dictate what level you stay at....not at the lower levels. As others have said...many of us don't even start at BN. Hell...I've skipped novice on horses before too.... Now if you were talking Prelim to Intermediate...we may be having a different discussion

    I move up according to my jumping...dressage will catch up. Or it may not catch up and this little jumping machine is who will give you the jumping miles so that you can be more competitive on your next horse...who may be better at dressage

    I have also found that some of my horses who were not competitive at novice ARE more competitive when the dressage gets a bit tougher. My best xc horse...the one who packed me around prelim and a few intermediates...then packed his next owner around at high levels of jumpers (mini prix) never scored well in dressage. If we were under 45 it was an exceptional test. But he was still one of the easiest and best horses to jump that I've ever sat on.


    Talk to your trainer and go with the level you are safe and having fun and still learning something.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
    Location
    Azle, Teh-has
    Posts
    7,691

    Default

    OMG get out of BN.

    And when it comes time for Training Level-- YES! you can move up even if you don't have the lengthenings.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 1999
    Location
    Bucks County, PA, USA
    Posts
    821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    I have also found that some of my horses who were not competitive at novice ARE more competitive when the dressage gets a bit tougher.

    BFNE took the words right out of my keyboard. Totally agree! (With the rest of the post, too, but this was the part I as going to say!)
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 1999
    Posts
    14,496

    Default

    When I started eventing, there was no such thing as Baby Novice, or Pre-Novice. The lowest level was Novice. From my understanding, years before, everyone started at Training. My guess is also that before that, it was "Prelim"

    Move up AND keep working on your dressage.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 4, 2006
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,393

    Default

    As someone in the process of moving from BN to N whose dressage is also less than stellar, based on what you have said, I would do the move up. You want to make sure that you are safe and pretty confident with the jumping, but the dressage between BN and N isn't really all that different. The test is very slightly more challenging (but not by very much, to be honest, I found it a bit more fun than the boring BN test). But all the concepts are really pretty much the same. It's not until you get to Training that you get lengthenings, etc. So, in other words, from BN to N you would not really be moving on to more advanced stuff before accomplishing & mastering certain basics, you're still going to be working on the same stuff. If the jumping is there, then go for it.
    -Debbie / NH

    My Blog: http://deborahsulli.blogspot.com/



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2007
    Location
    Marietta
    Posts
    391

    Default

    I would move up. It's not prelim, it's novice. And you will find as you move up that you will be a little more competitive. I had a horse that would run around the dressage arena with his nose in the air. I worked on it and worked on it but he never really improved. We went training level and had a BLAST. Novice dressage is no huge jump from BN anyway, you will be fine.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    Novice is an entry level, not really something one needs to "move up" to, unless there are confidence issues or massive inexperience on the part of horse and/or rider.
    Click here before you buy.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2009
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    All I'm going to says is have fun at novice
    Quote Originally Posted by pinecone View Post
    I can't decide if I should saddle up the drama llama, dust off the clue bat, or get out my soapbox.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 18, 2005
    Posts
    443

    Default

    I would say that if your jumping is safe etc then yeh, I'd move up. My guy gets tense in the dressage ring and as a result, we almost always finish last or near last in the dressage but he is a jumping machine and very safe (so I figure the flat work is there, just not showing up in the dressage ring ;p). I found that when I moved up to Training level, I did better. I don't think there's a huge difference between BN and N either. I think if I were to wait till my dressage score was much better I'd never even make it to Novice If I can keep my dressage score close to low 40's I'm happy.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2001
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    6,433

    Default

    Agree with everyone else. There are things that the dressage is "supposed" to test, such as ability to collect and lengthen stride, lateral suppleness, etc., that can arguably be a prerequisite for a properly rideable horse at, say, Prelim...

    but the difference in what is asked in BN vs N dressage amounts to slightly crisper transitions and steering.

    Move up if the jumping phases are doable and look fun/safe for you, and have a good time!!!
    The big man -- no longer an only child

    His new little brother



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    passepartout
    Posts
    9,987

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by purplnurpl View Post
    OMG get out of BN.
    This. Yesterday.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    4,209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by purplnurpl View Post
    OMG get out of BN.
    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    This. Yesterday.
    JER, I always enjoy your posts. In this instance, you and purplnurpl, are a great team!
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
    Posts
    12,752

    Default

    Me agreeing with everyone is just redundant, but, yes, move up. There is no reason to stay endlessly at BN just because your horse is not so great in the dressage. You'll be doing the same exact things in the N tests, so what's the point of boring you and your horse to tears? I also sometimes belief that staying too long at a level that is too small for an athletic horse can make that horse overly strong and careless, so it is better to move up when everyone is confident in the jumping phases to keep the horse thinking and paying attention.

    You can ALWAYS work on the dressage. AND, if you just want to go out and have fun and run and jump and don't really care if you are blowing your divisions out of the water, then don't worry about it...go have fun.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2004
    Location
    Elkton
    Posts
    4,405

    Default

    Thanks everyone.. you confirmed my feelings!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 5, 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Meredith Clark View Post
    I am blessed with a jumping machine of a horse. If I steer he won't stop at anything, if I get him in front of my leg can clear everything (that we've jumped so far!).
    No advice about the move up, but I just have to say I'm extremely jealous! I have a great dressage horse who is a sissy about the fences!

    You lucky duck.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 20, 2009
    Location
    Raeford, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Grey_hunter View Post
    All I'm going to says is have fun at novice
    Plus one.

    Besides, is he built to score well at dressage? He can be on your aids all day long and still not "get a good number" if his body style makes it really hard for him to hit the 7's or 8's.

    He's listening to you, he's safe jumping, your bored . . . .

    Have fun!
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Cotton would fight.
    http://buildingthegrove.blogspot.com/



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