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  1. #1
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    Default Dog aggressive dogs?

    Please don't flame me. I only want to know if there is any hope for a dog that is "dog aggressive"? Dog does not show any aggression towards humans.

    thanks,
    Strange how much you've got to know Before you know how little you know. Anonymous



  2. #2
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    My understanding is that DA dogs are generally NOT HA, and vice versa. There are others who are probably more knowledgable on this tho.

    Can I ask why?

    LBR
    I reject your reality, and substitute my own- Adam Savage

    R.I.P Ron Smith, you'll be greatly missed



  3. #3
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    Mar. 6, 2009
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    Default No knowledge ~ just Jingles

    No advice here but sending Jingles for this difficult situation to be resolved quickly and safely ..

    Hoping you get some great advice from posters .
    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"



  4. #4
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    Jul. 13, 2004
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    Extremely careful management, all of the days of his life.

    I have one who is fear aggressive towards other dogs. Which to a human's, rational way of thinking, is completely preposterous. He's a nearly 100-lb male Doberman. But dogs don't think like humans He's fine with the girls (two females Dobes), who were here in our family when he came to us as a 4-5 month old. And with *careful management* we introduced our youngest 18 months ago. Which was NOT sunshine and roses.

    I don't put him in situations that could go "not well". I carefully manage his interactions in any public - off my property - place. I take him *some* places with me. He sees other dogs at these places, and he buries his face in my legs. He wants nothing to do with them, and we remove ourselves from the situation. I'm protective of him to a fault.



  5. #5
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    Apr. 1, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfArabian View Post
    Please don't flame me. I only want to know if there is any hope for a dog that is "dog aggressive"? Dog does not show any aggression towards humans.

    thanks,
    yes.



  6. #6
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    Jan. 2, 2009
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    Michigan
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    Default

    Thanks for the nice replies. I think part of the prob is a friend found her and her background is sketchy at best. I try not to put her in situations where she can meet new dogs. If anyone out for walks ask if she is friendly; I say,"No". I think safety first is the best policy. Also, my late dog, God rest her sole, was a fear biter so I try to err on the side of caution.



    Karen
    Strange how much you've got to know Before you know how little you know. Anonymous



  7. #7
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Default

    Many, many dogs will be leash aggressive (aggressive to other dogs when on a leash). I have 2 dogs that are like this. If I am walking my 3 and a loose dog comes running up to them, it WILL be attacked. So I manage my walks so I don't let loose dogs get close. With these same dogs, I can put a new dog out back with them, and they're fine. Or I can take one of them for a walk with a new dog, and just walk briskly, and they're fine.

    It's all about management.

    Sometimes you can desensitize a DA dog, but it is not guaranteed, and you need to spend time training them.



  8. #8
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    Jun. 16, 2001
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    Muzzle him until it sinks in that such behavior is not at all acceptable.



  9. #9
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    Muzzles often amplify the behavior, and only prevent the bites. The behavior is still there, and often worsened. Waiting for the one time when the muzzle isn't there.



  10. #10
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    Oct. 27, 2010
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    Nevada
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    Yes....obedience training, done seriously. I used to raise Akitas and they are just aggressive toward other dogs most of the time and pretty protective of what is theirs. Lots of hours doing obedience....got an AKC CD on him as a long two year old dog....one of 33 in the country and of 8 that were owner handled/shown that year. It did take a lot of work and time. Hardly ever been as nervous as I was with the group sit/stay and group/down exercises. He loved small dogs but anything approaching his own size (125 lbs) was looked upon as possible threat or rival... dont' know which and didn't care...he was NOT to do anything. Fortunately started working with him as a 10 week old pup.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV



  11. #11
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    Jun. 16, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by asb_own_me View Post
    Muzzles often amplify the behavior, and only prevent the bites. The behavior is still there, and often worsened. Waiting for the one time when the muzzle isn't there.
    Then owner isn't doing their part of correcting the bad behavior and rewarding the good. A muzzel is like any other aid.



  12. #12
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    The key is to positively reinforce GOOD behavior around other dogs. I really like Victoria Stillwell's "leave it" technique- basically, teaching your dog to break attention from an object he/she is obsessing over. There are tons of videos on YouTube about training this technique, and it's excessively simple. I am not a dog trainer, but "Leave It" has saved multiple baby bunnies in my yard, and prevented several dead animal rolls in the past few months.

    As the dog gets more reliable with "Leave It", you can graduate to more advanced things. I started the way VS starts- treat in one hand, dog is given another treat for looking away from the treat in my hand. It's made going out with my dogs such a pleasurable experience. I take them to Baltimore's Inner Harbor every weekend, and both will refocus their attention from other dogs with the "Leave It" command. They know they will get a treat for this, so it also doubles to make the experience of seeing or being around another dog extremely positive. That, as I understand it, is the most important part of training a dog that has animal aggression issues.

    That being said, neither of my dogs are dog aggressive, and if either one were, management of every.single.situation they were in would be absolutely the most important thing. One thing to remember is that you might be able to control your dog, but you cannot control other people's dogs. I was recently walking my dogs in my neighborhood, and my flaky neighbor with the 85 foot flexi leash and dog aggressive JRT showed up. I hastily removed both my dogs from that situation, as I didn't trust neighbor to control her dog in an appropriate manner. Not worth having a bad experience.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



  13. #13
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    After all avenues have been pursued (including enlisting the assistance of a behaviorist and/or trainer if necessary,) keep it away from other dogs. If it's in a home with another dog, practice "crate-and-rotate," and never take it to a dog park.

    DA is a trait in some breeds (see bully breeds.)

    HA is never tolerated. (HA, in this sense of the word, means a dog that is wholly unpredictable, temperament-flawed, wiring "off," and has attacked or attempted to attack a human absolutely unprovoked and no medical causes for its aggression.)
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  14. #14
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    Assuming you mean the dog is DA as in, will attack other dogs with the intent to hurt them (because some people use it to mean dogs who just aren't very 'into' being with other dogs) and that the owner is a normal, loving dog owner who isn't prepared to become a pro trainer - maybe. Very, very maybe. If:

    1) The DA is not already so advanced the dog has a track record of bloody bites, or maiming or killing. If the dog has shown serious intent but never closed, whether by inexperience or pure luck, that's a much better situation than a dog who has learned a lot by actually getting to grips with other animals.

    2) The dog is a breed which is not already noted for DA; the so-called fighting breeds are physically and mentally coded to win and survive violent altercations with other dogs. If the DA dog is a beagle or a Golden, that's serious. If it's a pit bull or any of that type, that's someone else's dead pet waiting to happen.

    3) The dog is not large. Upper limit, maybe 60lbs. Anything larger and all aggression in a dog becomes unacceptable by virtue of sheer mass. Because for all the 'DA does not equal HA!' cant bandied about, dogs who attack other dogs frequently bite humans. The most optimistic reading is to call it 'misdirected aggression,' but the reality can be serious or even fatal bites of humans. Google dog attacks; there are a lot of news accounts where Dog A races across the street to attack Dog B, is vexed by Dog B's owner (who frequently attempts to prevent his/her dog's vivisection-by-fang) and bites that pesky human. A big dog is closer to more vulnerable areas of an adult human, like the head, and more likely to be able to overwhelm and overpower an adult.

    4) The owner accepts the limitations and is ABLE to commit to annoying, un-fun lifelong management. This is frequently impossible unless the owner is single and has no children. This is a dog who doesn't get to take walks with the owner's kids at the other end of the leash, who can't go to the dog park or the pet store, who needs a special appointment at the vet, who will never go on a flexilead.

    It may sound harsh, but you can't train out aggression. Sure, you can conceivably train an aggressive dog to a high level of obedience so that if you are 110% on top of Rover at all times, you can say "No." or "Heel." and he'll stop acting on his train of thought. But you won't get rid of that desire, and once it gets rolling, he won't break away. At best, it's very iffy if he'll stop. Police and military dogs will stop in mid-bite, but then, the police and military don't use dogs with aggression issues for their work.

    One other thing - this situation is not your fault. If the dog had a fatal, contagious illness, you would have to euthanize him. In a lot of ways, real DA is a fatal, contagious disease. Don't feel guilted into keeping him if he's a new dog (seems to be from OP). If you do, though, please realize that you were the one who accepted the problem. Your neighbors with the lab who gets loose and into your yard, the guy an over-friendly dog on a flexi-lead at the park, the little kid who runs with her puppy right toward you, etc. - they're not the problem. Your dog is.



  15. #15
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    You will have to work really, really hard and not let your guard down. Yes, da dogs are not generally ha, but anytime you're in public you'll have to deal with people who have out of control dogs off-leash and holler from afar "don't worry, he's friendly" not taking into account that yours is not.



  16. #16
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    Our dog is "leash aggressive"...i.e., she's OK with other dogs as long as they don't approach her when she feels cornered. And, she is VERY aggressive/defensive when she does feel cornered. She's getting old and it's less of a problem as she doesn't need (or tolerate) the level of exercise she used to, so we can stay closer to home.

    My biggest problem has always been other dog owners. Our town has a leash law, I do my best to follow it unless we are alone, out deep in the woods, where she can be loose and no one will encounter us to complain. Other dog owners who have "friendly" (read totally undisciplined) dogs do not follow it. When their loose dogs come running up to my leashed dog to play, it can be pretty scary. I try to put myself between their dog and mine, while yelling at them to PLEASE call their dog off, they usually respond with "Don't worry he's friendly!". MINE IS NOT, YOUR DOG WILL GET HURT!! Idiots. It's nerve wracking.

    Funny thing is, when she's off the leash, she's fine, if she doesn't like the way a dog or person is approaching her, she growls a bit in warning, turns her back on them, walks away and nothing happens. SHE'D be safer for the public if allowed off leash (unless the leash law were enforced 100% of the time)...she comes when called, does not approach other people or dogs and does not chase anything. She just wants her physical space and her two people (DH and I), everyone else is of no interest to her at all and she pretends they don't exist.



  17. #17
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    Jul. 13, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by vacation1 View Post
    Assuming you mean the dog is DA as in, will attack other dogs with the intent to hurt them (because some people use it to mean dogs who just aren't very 'into' being with other dogs)
    This is a very, very important distinction. I just wanted to pause the conversation to make sure that this was seen

    "Leave it".....taught by whichever methods you choose (I don't love Ms. Dominatrix-Stilwell) is a valuable command. My four all know "leave it" and that command is key in why my my DA/not-into-other-dogs dog buries his face in my legs rather than engage.....he's "leaving it"



  18. #18
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    Sep. 29, 2009
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    In my long dog experience, you have to manage the bad dog very very well.

    If I get another one, and it turns out that way, I will euth. It is just a matter of time before they go to humans. The jump from attacking dogs, and other animals to attacks on humans (can be you btw) is just a matter of time.

    All of the above is based on my personal experience. You have a walking time bomb. Yes, I have done lots of training, food changes, socialization's, etc. I had one instance with one dog and it started to get nasty, and I had another dog jump in and defend me. BTW these are toy type dogs. Not big dogs. This neutered male had what I call an alpha wanna be temperament.

    A friend took her aggressive rescued dog who was apparently aggressive to dogs, cats, and humans with her to an organized endurance ride. The dog was on a rope/leash and tied to her horse trailer or truck - I forget. However, somebody (her neighbor at the ride camp) came up to say hi, or was just attending her horse at her own horse trailer, and the dog came out from under the trailer and bit her deep and bad. The ride vets even looked at it. Also same dog same ride, same day pretty much did the same to me, however I saw it in time and ran away. That was really scary. If that had been MY dog, I would have had the ride vets euth that dog right away, on the spot. Period. I am surprised she didn't get sued.

    There is a today's story about a 4 yr old little boy who was just mauled and killed by the family dog. This is on foxnews dot com. SO SAD.

    Hind site 20-20, I will euth after X (very short) period of time. Not all can be fixed, and if they are, are they 110% always fixed? IMO: no.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by asb_own_me View Post
    Muzzles often amplify the behavior, and only prevent the bites. The behavior is still there, and often worsened. Waiting for the one time when the muzzle isn't there.
    Respectfully 100% disagree. As part of overall behavior modification the muzzle can help alter the brain. I have a very aggressive Terrier that morphs now when the muzzle goes on. Tail/body stays soft. I have been working with this dog for two years....she will never be 100% trustworthy but every day she makes progress. I manage the hell out of the dog and try to not push too far, too fast.

    OP...yes, there is hope.
    "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmh_rider View Post
    In my long dog experience, you have to manage the bad dog very very well.

    If I get another one, and it turns out that way, I will euth. It is just a matter of time before they go to humans. The jump from attacking dogs, and other animals to attacks on humans (can be you btw) is just a matter of time.
    This is so crazy. Sure, some DA dogs will become HA, but 99% of dog aggression is FEAR based and bred from an insecure dog that can't handle the uncertainty of interaction with another animal. DA and HA are two totally different things. A truly HA dog is an animal that needs to be destroyed immediately. A DA dog is one that needs to learn some serious coping skills in addition to being managed THOROUGHLY by it's human.
    Here today, gone tomorrow...



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